DPS is tearin' em down

[mcsdetroitfriend]

Is St. Vincent De Paul Middle School on 14th street closed? The 14th street side entrance has boards over the front door, so I'm assuming it is, but according to the website which was updated in February it's still open. Anyone know? I know it's not really DPS, but just curious

[detroitbookhound]

Jane Cooper - torn down last month? Went there 72-76.

[softailrider]

I wonder how many of those schools the district spent tens of thousands of dollars VPS'ing.

[Rocko]

Dec. 8, 2009

DPS to tear down 14 vacant schools it calls the worst eyesores

BY LORI HIGGINS
FREE PRESS EDUCATION WRITER

Detroit Public Schools is to tear down 14 vacant schools beginning in January, eliminating maintenance costs and getting rid of buildings that have been a haven for graffiti artists, vandals and thieves.

"These are absolutely the worst of the worst," said Robert Bobb, emergency financial manager for the district. The buildings, he said, "are hazardous for kids in the neighborhoods."

Bobb made the announcement Monday with Sherrard School as the backdrop. The former elementary school, which closed in 2007, is among those to be torn down. At Sherrard, and the adjacent former Foreign Language Immersion and Cultural Studies School, vandals have destroyed the buildings, removing windows, stealing copper and leaving a trail of glass and debris in and outside the building.

Bobb said the district will use $3.1 million left over from the 1994 bond and nearly $30 million from Proposal S, the bond proposal voters approved in November.
Proposal S called for the demolition of 29 vacant buildings. More schools are to be torn down in later phases, but those announced for demolition Monday were deemed the most dangerous.

"They have been a real blight," Bobb said of the buildings.

Ray Litt, director of Historic Cass Technical High Preservation Society, said he is still hoping his group can save the old Cass Tech building, but pointed out they have been unable to get into the building to assess its condition before a bid can be made to purchase. Litt said the group has a developer already who plans to turn the building into a mixture of retail, entertainment and office space for nonprofit groups.

"It appears they're determined to demolish" the building, Litt said.

http://www.freep.com/article/2009120...worst-eyesores

[Rocko]

This article in the Detroit News sheds some more light:

December 08. 2009 1:00AM Detroit Public Schools

Detroit's historic Cass Tech faces demolition crew

Catherine Jun and Darren A. Nichols / The Detroit News

Detroit -- After years of preservation efforts, the historic Cass Tech High building will soon meet the wrecking ball.

The school was listed Monday among 14 vacant buildings slated for demolition under a plan unveiled by Detroit Public Schools.

The hulking 831,000-square-foot building that looms over Interstate 75 has stood vacant since 2005, when a new Cass Tech High opened next door. Since then, preservationists and school alumni have called for saving the 1920 building that lists among its former students Motown star Diana Ross, comedian Lily Tomlin, auto executive John Z. DeLorean and former Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick.

The announcement shocked supporters.

"We are extremely disappointed at the actions of DPS," said Marshall Weingarden, a 1961 alumnus and trustee with the Historic Cass Tech Preservation Society. "Historic Cass Tech was a beacon of education and a symbol of the lifeblood of Detroit," he said.

The list of schools to be demolished includes Finney High, Chadsey High, Munger Middle and Brietmeyer Elementary, all recently found worthy of historic preservation by the Detroit Historic Designation Advisory Commission, said Julie Long, member of the city's seven-member Detroit Historic District Commission. Long said she had unsuccessfully tried to meet with school officials in recent weeks to urge them to keep many of these schools off the demolition list.

"The forces are really against you at all turns," she said.

Steven Wasko, spokesman for the school district, said Long never mentioned Cass Tech.

The school district is saddled with a $219 million deficit and more than 100 vacant buildings, many that fall into disrepair and become the target of vandals and thieves. Additional schools will be named for demolition later.

The sites will be demolished using about $3.1 million from a 1994 school bond and about $30 million from a $500 million Proposal S bond that secured federal stimulus money and was approved by Detroit voters Nov. 3.

Karen Nagher, executive director of Preservation Wayne, blames the district for the state of the old Cass Tech's disrepair.

"When you don't secure a building like that, it's deliberate," she said. "I think the demolition of Cass Tech was a foregone conclusion."

Wasko said the building poses a safety hazard for students and others who walk along that path to the neighboring current Cass Tech.

"Our primary interest is to serve the students and families who are attending that school," Wasko said.

He said clearing the building will also enable future expansion of the grounds at the new school, possibly for an athletic field, something that had been considered since the building was constructed.

Though developers have expressed interest, no one has put forth a concrete proposal, he said. "A good idea is not the only thing to transform a building," Wasko said.

Preservationists say, though, the district has been uncooperative to alternative ideas.
In 2007, the preservation society sought rehabilitation proposals, with the district's permission. The group had hoped to convert the building into restaurants, stores, artist studios or performance space.

"We couldn't get a letter of intent, we couldn't get DPS to negotiate," Weingarden said.

He added the society is talking to a prominent local developer about a rehab project. He declined to identify the developer or give details.

District officials will hold a meeting Wednesday for local contractors to put together project schedules and discuss how to salvage materials.

George Davis, 42, a 1985 graduate, said though he had sentimental ties to the old Cass Tech, it's time for it to be torn down.

"If the land can be used somehow to expand the educational facilities of the current and future Cass students, it becomes a win-win for everybody," he said. "Cass Tech has changed over the years many times. I weigh what it's done to contribute to society more than my personal sentimental values."

[iheartthed]

This must be part of that jobs by demolition program that Mr. Bing went to beg the White House to fund last week.

Detroit doesn't have a chance.

[ghettopalmetto]

Someone should tell Mr. Bobb that "eyesore" and "dangerous" are two entirely different things.

Now, which excuse is it???

[Khartoum]

Actually, we might be taking that one off the list. The community is working with non-profit who might rehab it if they choose to put their school there. If they don't, then it's coming down and thank God. I've been trying to get it torn down for over a year. The whole building is wide open and stripped, just waiting for some asshole with a match to come walking by. The worst part is, DPS poured millions into rehabing that school about a year before it closed. The same thing with several other schools that are now dilapitated. What a effing waste.

Renovate the building and funnel money to your renovation buddies...then close the building and funnel more money to your demolition buddies.

As long as you can declare it's an eyesore and get people all sis-boom-bah behind you throwing money at it.

Rape the city so you can buy more Gucci handbags and Patron.

What about the school that was on life after people or whatever that show was.Theres a school that should go.As an employee of a local district, One of the two buildings I work at is scheduled to be closed. I would rather see it demolished then suffer the fate that some of the closed DPS schools have had.

That was Jane Cooper. It's in the middle of f'ing nowhere, but apparently absolutely necessary to go.

It was 1/4th torn down in October. I'm sure it's gone by now.

Grass Lots, Yes!

[bailey]

Someone should tell Mr. Bobb that "eyesore" and "dangerous" are two entirely different things.

Now, which excuse is it???

Lots and lots of bitching on this thread....not one solution.

"Historic Cass Tech was a beacon of education and a symbol of the lifeblood of Detroit," he said.[...without a hint of irony]

[ghettopalmetto]

Lots and lots of bitching on this thread....not one solution.

Bitching, my ass. The preservation-minded folks on this forum have said time and again what the solution is. Yet, we get shouted down because "We don't know what we're talking about", despite some of us actually having been paid in a professional capacity to restore, renovate, and rehabilitate such structures.

Maybe it's YOU who should demonstrate why demolition is always the answer, if you're so supportive of it as a sound economic development strategy for a city with a massive budget deficit. What fruits has that reaped for Detroit???

[bailey]

Bitching, my ass. The preservation-minded folks on this forum have said time and again what the solution is. Yet, we get shouted down because "We don't know what we're talking about", despite some of us actually having been paid in a professional capacity to restore, renovate, and rehabilitate such structures.

Maybe it's YOU who should demonstrate why demolition is always the answer, if you're so supportive of it as a sound economic development strategy for a city with a massive budget deficit. What fruits has that reaped for Detroit???

Solutions!?! you have no solutions other than to mothball or Lofts.
How are those Cass Tech Lofts coming along? Street level retail? how's that going? I guess I should have prefaced "solution" with "any chance of ever coming to fruition"

Mothballing? Old Finney High? Why? what possible purpose will that facility have? How many people are you going to hire to keep putting the plywood back on the doors after vandals, thieves and photographers making ruin porn break in every week? How many tens of millions will it take to renovate and rehabilitate it just to get it marketable for anything?

Selling it to developers? for what? A dollar? An how long before it ends up right back in the city's hands after nothing is done? 10 years? 20?

I would like you to tell me what use Two MILLION square feet of empty schools and school buildings can be used for...in real life Detroit. Not in sim-city.

TWO MILLION SQUARE FEET of surplus square feet designed and built for use as a school in a city drowning in surplus square footage and massive debt.

In real life Detroit 2009, there is neither a use, nor the money, nor the will to keep them from falling further into disrepair and blight.

DPS has 170 other schools to deal with. Why is your answer for any question to never tear down anything, ever, for any reason?

[ghettopalmetto]

Bailey, you haven't read the thread.

Shrinking school districts in other cities have been able to sell their empty school buildings to developers. The developers then convert the buildings into apartments or condominiums--you know, the kind of housing that attracts the high-earning, job-creating, educated professionals that Detroit sorely lacks. It becomes a money-maker for the school district. Apparently, Detroit Public Schools would rather throw money away to get nothing in return. Good work!

Cass Tech wouldn't be empty if the DPS didn't decide to neglect the building, and then construct a brand new structure next door. And as you didn't read above, there is a group that wants to renovate the Cass Tech building, but DPS isn't allowing anyone access to conduct the necessary evaluation. Why do you suppose this is???

You may think Detroit doesn't need any more empty buildings, but empty buildings at least give the city half a chance to come back. What Detroit needs even less is empty lots--empty lots that cost millions of dollars that neither the city nor the schools have.

[bailey]

Shrinking school districts in other cities have been able to sell their empty school buildings to developers. The developers then convert the buildings into apartments or condominiums--you know, the kind of housing that attracts the high-earning, job-creating, educated professionals that Detroit sorely lacks. It becomes a money-maker for the school district. Apparently, Detroit Public Schools would rather throw money away to get nothing in return. Good work!

Oh yeah, Royal oak can do it.. Ferndale...etc. and maybe Other "big" cites can do it, too. From lofts, to commercial, to making them community centers. I understand that. Avoiding the whole discussion over the lack of demand...etc, They've been able to do that with ONE or TWO buildings, not 100. Can you at least admit THAT much?

Cass Tech wouldn't be empty if the DPS didn't decide to neglect the building, and then construct a brand new structure next door. And as you didn't read above, there is a group that wants to renovate the Cass Tech building, but DPS isn't allowing anyone access to conduct the necessary evaluation. Why do you suppose this is???

The stupidity of that notwithstanding, you still have a derelict structure with no discernible use or purpose...and a new building with a 99 yard football field. Insanity all around doesn't negate the reality of the situation as we find it today.

with regard to "the group"...you mean the one that won't reveal its backers? It's funny that they allege a failure of cooperation on one side, but then refuse to say who is backing their effort.

You may think Detroit doesn't need any more empty buildings, but empty buildings at least give the city half a chance to come back. .

live next to one for a decade or two and let me know how that might change your opinion.

[DetroitZack]

Bummer, I'm will have to photograph all these before they are gone. Always loved Cass Tech

[English]

Lots and lots of bitching on this thread....not one solution.

I am very offended that you consider people in mourning to be "b*tching". What an odious point of view.

[Lorax]

Like the previous Cass Tech/Lafayette Bldg. threads in which I discussed with PQZ ad nauseum about the prospects for a renovated Cass Tech, the decision is made to destroy due to the culture of corruption prevalent in Detroit, where demolition contracts and the ensuing kickbacks render it a profit motive rather than a solution that would save historic buldings and create a better built environment.

Why wouldn't they allow access to potential buyers? They don't give a shit, since they stand to gain more through kickbacks with demo contractors. Period.

Selling an asset, even if it's only a few thousand dollars would benefit the DPS- so instead we get only more graft and corruption.

The building of the new Cass Tech was flawed from the get-go, as it didn't include a complete renovation and re-use of the existing building. In any other city that would have been a given- but Detroit is still stuck in a demolition derby mind set dating back a generation.

[Det_ard]

Bitching, my ass. The preservation-minded folks on this forum have said time and again what the solution is. Yet, we get shouted down because "We don't know what we're talking about", despite some of us actually having been paid in a professional capacity to restore, renovate, and rehabilitate such structures.

There won't be a need to people like yourself who know how to rehab a school unless an investor can make it happen. I don't see much hope for that in the foreseeable future. Sucks, but why live in dream world when the reality is that DPS isn't capable of preserving these schools for the 10 [[20, 50, 100?) years necessary to give them at least a chance of being reused. They'll be trashed in a few years no matter what. Besides, most of those schools aren't in places where I'd want to live. Would you?

Yeah, something could be done with them when another million people move back, but might take a while.

[bailey]

I am very offended that you consider people in mourning to be "b*tching". What an odious point of view.

You're "in mourning" over your high school?

[ghettopalmetto]

There won't be a need to people like yourself who know how to rehab a school unless an investor can make it happen. I don't see much hope for that in the foreseeable future. Sucks, but why live in dream world when the reality is that DPS isn't capable of preserving these schools for the 10 [[20, 50, 100?) years necessary to give them at least a chance of being reused.

The last time I checked, Detroit Public Schools isn't a real estate developer. What's wrong with allowing a potential investor [[the kind you claim doesn't exist) evaluate the Cass Tech building? Perhaps they might make an offer. For that matter, what's wrong with at least *attempting* to put the remaining buildings up for sale, before spending millions of precious taxpayer dollars?

The ugly truth is that DPS has arbitrarily determined [[much like DEGC's thought process) that these buildings *must* be demolished *now*, and that there is no other means of recourse. They're not even trying, and you're giving them a free pass.

The rest of the nation figured out 30 years ago that "slum clearance" doesn't work as an economic development tool. When is Detroit going to catch on?

[Neilr]

When the old Hillger Elementary on Iroquois and Forest in the middle of Pingree Park was closed c.1975, the building was turned over to the Inner City Sub Center. They've managed to keep it open but in greatly deteriorated condition.

Perhaps 35 years ago the old Rose Elementary School on Van Dyke, between Gratiot and I94, was closed and a replacement [[now also closed) was built just to the east of Kettering HS. The old Rose building was sold by DPS to a private Black Muslim School [[something like Sister Clara X School, IIRC). In short order they abandoned it to the elements. It still sits there, vacant, striped, desolate. It seemingly has had no value to anyone all these years, handsome though it may be.

DPS closed and mothballed the Nellie Leland School and it remained vacant for over 20 years. This was before the period of rampant stripping and vandalizing of vacant buildings in Detroit. A few years ago it was successfully rehabbed into the Leland Lofts.
http://www.lelandlofts.com/index.php

The biggest difference between the latter two buildings is their locations. Middle income people have no need or desire to live on Van Dyke and Gratiot. While the Leland Lofts is in Lafayette Park, a neighborhood where people who get the concept of adaptive reuse and loft living want, and can afford, to live.

Most vacated DPS buildings are not in areas that potential loft buyers want to live. And in a city that is closing down functioning recreation centers there seems to be little need or public/private money to rehab schools for new ones.

So what else is DPS to do? A serious question for fellow posters: What possible, serious reuse is there for Sherrard and FLICS [[old Brietmeyer) considering their location on Cameron? If not now, in 5 years, perhaps. Or should they just sit there like the old Rose building?

[Neilr]

Old school buildings can be converted to loft apartments. Here's a current example in NYC where the demand for apartments [[and the ability to pay for them) is continuing despite the current nationwide housing crisis. If only this were the case in Detroit.

http://www.ps90condo.com/#/HOME/

[English]

You're "in mourning" over your high school?

Have a nice day.

[English]

When the old Hillger Elementary on Iroquois and Forest in the middle of Pingree Park was closed c.1975, the building was turned over to the Inner City Sub Center. They've managed to keep it open but in greatly deteriorated condition.

Perhaps 35 years ago the old Rose Elementary School on Van Dyke, between Gratiot and I94, was closed and a replacement [[now also closed) was built just to the east of Kettering HS. The old Rose building was sold by DPS to a private Black Muslim School [[something like Sister Clara X School, IIRC). In short order they abandoned it to the elements. It still sits there, vacant, striped, desolate. It seemingly has had no value to anyone all these years, handsome though it may be.

DPS closed and mothballed the Nellie Leland School and it remained vacant for over 20 years. This was before the period of rampant stripping and vandalizing of vacant buildings in Detroit. A few years ago it was successfully rehabbed into the Leland Lofts.
http://www.lelandlofts.com/index.php

The biggest difference between the latter two buildings is their locations. Middle income people have no need or desire to live on Van Dyke and Gratiot. While the Leland Lofts is in Lafayette Park, a neighborhood where people who get the concept of adaptive reuse and loft living want, and can afford, to live.

Most vacated DPS buildings are not in areas that potential loft buyers want to live. And in a city that is closing down functioning recreation centers there seems to be little need or public/private money to rehab schools for new ones.

So what else is DPS to do? A serious question for fellow posters: What possible, serious reuse is there for Sherrard and FLICS [[old Brietmeyer) considering their location on Cameron? If not now, in 5 years, perhaps. Or should they just sit there like the old Rose building?

The problem is that there's no viable solution for the problem. Either an "undesirable" neighborhood gets an abandoned and neglected eyesore or a vacant lot that's like a scar on the landscape.

[Det_ard]

The last time I checked, Detroit Public Schools isn't a real estate developer. What's wrong with allowing a potential investor [[the kind you claim doesn't exist) evaluate the Cass Tech building? Perhaps they might make an offer. For that matter, what's wrong with at least *attempting* to put the remaining buildings up for sale, before spending millions of precious taxpayer dollars?

The ugly truth is that DPS has arbitrarily determined [[much like DEGC's thought process) that these buildings *must* be demolished *now*, and that there is no other means of recourse. They're not even trying, and you're giving them a free pass.

The rest of the nation figured out 30 years ago that "slum clearance" doesn't work as an economic development tool. When is Detroit going to catch on?

I'd be glad to let a serious investor take a look and do their evaluation. It'd be great to get a nice conversion done. But realistically, what are the chances that'll happen. Detroit is plagued with fakey-fake investors who lack a track record, equity funding, and the ability to obtain outside financing. In this economy, in this city, it ain't happening. But what you seem to want is to let some dufus acquire control and then likely sit on it for years [[since they're more likely speculators than competent developers with a viable plan) and let it deteriorate to the point where it's a public nuisance.

Do you really envision these schools getting rehabbed anytime soon? Have you been to Michigan recently? Do you know what the development climate is like, and how deep a hole we're in? Someday, the tide will turn. We'll be such a value play, and the economy will again be growing, financing will be available, the crime and schools issues in the neighborhoods will be getting addressed, and maybe an old school building will make financial sense to some investor. That's a long ways off.

I'd love to see those who complain from the sidelines do something real, like BE the developer, BE the investor, make it happen. I think we need fewer planners, preservationists and professional engineers and more people willing to put their funds at risk.

[ghettopalmetto]

I'd be glad to let a serious investor take a look and do their evaluation. It'd be great to get a nice conversion done. But realistically, what are the chances that'll happen. Detroit is plagued with fakey-fake investors who lack a track record, equity funding, and the ability to obtain outside financing. In this economy, in this city, it ain't happening.

If DPS sells the building to an investor, it's not their concern. DPS isn't qualified to be a real estate developer, so who are they to determine who's "qualified". Let the individual developers and the banks sort out the financials. You don't know whether or not a viable project is proposed unless you give the opportunity. Hiding information only makes a proposal that much less feasible. DPS should in no way be a gatekeeper for what it has deemed "excess" properties that they're only going to destroy, anyway--they have other responsibilities that are far more important to its mission.

But what you seem to want is to let some dufus acquire control and then likely sit on it for years [[since they're more likely speculators than competent developers with a viable plan) and let it deteriorate to the point where it's a public nuisance.

You don't know if a developer is competent until they actually complete a project. Or were you referring to Detroit's longstanding culture of pay-to-play??? Glad to see that Detroit has plenty of backbenchers who can quickly determine which developers are qualified.

Do you really envision these schools getting rehabbed anytime soon? Have you been to Michigan recently? Do you know what the development climate is like, and how deep a hole we're in? Someday, the tide will turn. We'll be such a value play, and the economy will again be growing, financing will be available, the crime and schools issues in the neighborhoods will be getting addressed, and maybe an old school building will make financial sense to some investor. That's a long ways off.

So, you have a group who's willing and attempting to turn the tide, yet you'd rather sit on your hands and wait for something to magically happen. Your kind needs to step aside rather than make judgments of those who are attempting to improve your city.

Frankly, it's not for you, or DPS, or anyone else to decide that a Cass Tech renovation makes no financial sense to a would-be developer. Unless, of course, you're his accountant.

I'd love to see those who complain from the sidelines do something real, like BE the developer, BE the investor, make it happen. I think we need fewer planners, preservationists and professional engineers and more people willing to put their funds at risk.

Bemoan the architects, planners, preservationists, and engineers as much as you wish. Who do you think the developers hire for these sorts of projects? These are the do-ers who make it happen and have knowledge as to what is and is not feasible. These professionals have experience in this regard, whilst you sit idly by complaining and whining how things can't be done, waiting for some magic genie in a bottle to rain mountains of cash on the city.

If a developer is able to make a Cass Tech renovation work, what do you lose? And is that any worse than a multi-million dollar vacant lot?