Detroit's department stores

[reddog289]

Altough I don't shop at the Dept stores, Well maybe Sears for tools. I do miss the Downtown Hudsons. Yet when I see the postings that state if Hudsons, Crowleys, Etc had never built in the burbs their Downtown locations would not have closed. I think the void would have been filled. Detroit is not Manhatten. It built out instead of up.
Was there ever a Sears, Wards, or Federals downtown?. When Detroit was at the 2 milion mark people needed to live somewhere therefore they moved farther away from downtown. The retailers were smart and followed the money. It took almost 30 years after Northland opened for the Downtown Hudsons to close.
I was there for the last Christmas, My Cousins kept shoving me off the elevator on every empty floor. That was not my best memory of the building.I used to like the State St Marshall Fields in Chicago, Not that I bought anything, But it reminded me of Hudsons.
Take also into account of the theft that went on. If that Downtown store had the most and it wasn't profitable to do business there, then no wonder the plug was yanked. Sorta like many other stores in the city.

[sumas]

I believe that the store that housed Franklin Simon on the west side of Woodward still stands and the building that housed Winkelmans on the east side of Woodward still stands.

I worked for Hudsons in the seventies as a buyer. Our stores were demarcated as A, B. C or D stores based on volume of sales. Downtown was a low B store so sales were there up to the end. When Hudsons merged with Dayton it was the beginning of the end. Hudsons had a doctor and nurse on staff and a fleet of taxis on standby. I was at Northland and took ill. The personnel manager insisted I take a cab home [[I lived on the eastside) on the company bill. He predicted I was pregnant and he was right.

Hudsons was supposed to build a new store where the Kern block is but Dayton pulled the plug on that. It is sad that when headquarters are located out of state they don't have a corporate culture of community spirit. They dumped the parade too.

[Meddle]

There has to be some pictures somewhere of these old stores inside during their heydays. I can't see how there wouldn't be an archive.

Company archives? Library? Newspapers?

[sumas]

Theft wasn't a factor for Downtown closing, our shrink factor was well within acceptable bounds. Shrink is caused by theft, damaged goods unaccounted for and just plain bad paper flow. Northland was the major theft loss store. Before leaving Hudsons for good our inventory came in at 9.6%. Very unacceptable! I was assigned to head downtown to the accounts payable dept. to look for bad paper for my division. I found 10 million dollars in bad payment/paperwork alone.

I haven't been in a Dayton, Fields or Macy store since I left many years ago. I prefer to shop at local stores or at least franchises that are local owned and run. One year for Christmas I bought all my gifts at Wild Birds Unlimited in GP. Great store.

[krapug1]

Does anyone think the beginning of the end for Hudson's was the opening of their suburban stores? It seems to me that if they, or even Crowley's, resisted opening suburban locales and offered incentives to come downtown, they might still be in business or something still down there.

In a word, NO.

Many of the nations department stores opened numerous branches, and maintained prosperous downtown stores for decades.

In fact in the case of downtown Hudson's, it was the grand nephew of JL Hudson who ran the company through the 1970's, and insisted on keeping
events like runway fashion shows only at the downtown store. To keep the accountants at Dayton-Hudson happy he charged the cost of running the entire downtown building amoung the branch stores [[not charging the downtown retail portion for it's share), and starting in 1979 3rd party sponsors were brought in to subsidize the parade.

Futher JL Husdon warned the city starting in 1976 that the downtown store might close if a sales decline could not be reversed. A formal warning was issued in 1978 that downtown would close in 5 years if the Caddilac Square Mall project was not underway. Hudson's plan was to build a new store as part of the mall complex.

Finally when the offical announcement came in July of 1982 that downtown would close, Hudson's stated that it would maintain the store through the Christmas Season of 1982, with it's final day of regular business on December 31, 1982. The liquidation sale that kicked off on January 3, 1983 was run by Hudson's itself, saving the grand building the injustice of an outside liquidator.

During the period that Hudson's continued to use the building as it's Headquarters [[83 and 84), they continued to maintain the display windows along Woodward Avenue.

NO OTHER department store in the country was such a committed corporate citizen to it's downtown store.

Ken

[buildingsofdetroit]

Here's the aforementioned Montgomery Ward store on Michigan Avenue in Dearborn, stupidly destroyed in yet another brilliant move, rendering our architectural landscape all the less interesting:

What I don't understand is that the building going up now has the same mass and more or less shape as the Ward's. You tell me they couldn't have reused it? Woulda been cheaper, it seems.

[Russix]

What I don't understand is that the building going up now has the same mass and more or less shape as the Ward's. You tell me they couldn't have reused it? Woulda been cheaper, it seems.

In materials, yes. In energy efficiency, no.
Hudson’s downtown had some outrageous water bill that was equivalent to something like all their other stores combined. Downtown shopping districts do not exist without substantial pedestrian traffic, and substantial pedestrian traffic faded away in the modernization progress of the world’s auto capital.

[iheartthed]

Finally when the offical announcement came in July of 1982 that downtown would close, Hudson's stated that it would maintain the store through the Christmas Season of 1982, with it's final day of regular business on December 31, 1982. The liquidation sale that kicked off on January 3, 1983 was run by Hudson's itself, saving the grand building the injustice of an outside liquidator.

Wow, downtown Hudson's final day of regular business was during the same week that I was born.

[Lorax]

What I don't understand is that the building going up now has the same mass and more or less shape as the Ward's. You tell me they couldn't have reused it? Woulda been cheaper, it seems.

It would have been cheaper to reuse- problem is, modern offices and retail like as few vertical supports as possible, and the MW building had dozens of support columns. This is the only real reason. Efficiency can be achieved with modern windows, insulation, etc. Problem is, there is too much money out there willing to waste it destroying perfectly usable buildings- and this one in particular was in excellent condition, and could have benefitted from a simple interior remodel and would have been quite a landmark.

Now there will be another ugly piece of crap sitting there that could have been built anywhere.

[English]

English, I was very hesitant about saying this, but you kinda brought it up. It is my dream to open up a department store in downtown Detroit. I have the plans for it, the location for it [[1520 Woodward, the former Lane Bryant), and have even started writing a business plan.

I believe Philly has Boyds, which is a boutique luxury deparment store, which is something I have looked into and not sure I want something like that or something like Crowley's, a modest, but fierce department store.

Again, these are only my dreams and have no immediate plans to open one right now due the fact I have no financial support.

I never knew of Julian Scott, I was just a little too young to adventure down there by myself.

Wow! I'm glad you've shared this. We've had longtime forumers who have started businesses after talking about it on DYes and other groups. I am sure that someone knows the people involved in the Julian Scott venture... they might be a great source of information.

We need dreamers like you, but the problem is that postmodern Detroit has been a dreamslayer for many. Hang on, be pragmatic, get your ducks in a row... but you've got one more supporter.

[English]

Wow, downtown Hudson's final day of regular business was during the same week that I was born.

I didn't know you were an Eighties baby, Iheartthed!

I have extremely vague memories of the Hudson's warehouse sale. I also have extremely faint memories of the Grand River and Oakman shopping district near my grandparents' house.

The worst part of being a baby of Seventies Detroit and a child of the CCYE [[Classical Coleman Young Era) is that your earliest memories consist of everything slipping away. You feel like, if I was just 5 or 10 years older, oh, the places I would have gone...

[sumas]

Check the DY achives for Hudson memories. The Hudson family was very honorable. My memories of Hudson Downtown was special. I vaguely remember Eastland opening. It was originally a working farm. The old couple that sold the land kept a small portion of the property till their death. We would beg our Dad to drive up Kelly to see the farm house and barn. A few horses,cows and goats if I remember right.

[catch22]

I have extremely vague memories of the Hudson's warehouse sale. I also have extremely faint memories of the Grand River and Oakman shopping district near my grandparents' house.

I furnished my first apartment from a Hudson's Warehouse big sale. Got a sofa, recliner, a couple of end tables and lamps for just under $500 [[early 70's). I still have the sofa.

I only barely remember going to the GR/Oakman Sears as a kid. We usually went to the Lincoln Park store as it was closer to our house. As a adult, I was in there now and then, working for Ma Bell. I had the dubious distinction of removing their phones when they closed. It was rather creepy wandering around the closed, mostly empty store filling up a shopping cart with all the extension phones.

[Zacha341]

It was several factors including theft. High insurance rates too. It is all a "combination" of negatives that makes it a better deal to get out of dodge... Not an either / or proposition.......

Yes that's it, it's all the theft. It couldn't have anything to do with all their monied customers leaving the city and shopping at all their other branches in the suburban malls.

[9mile&seneca]

As a adult, I was in there now and then, working for Ma Bell. I had the dubious distinction of removing their phones when they closed. It was rather creepy wandering around the closed, mostly empty store filling up a shopping cart with all the extension phones.

Most people now don't even know that the phones were owned by the phone co. back then.

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[MikeM]

Does anyone think the beginning of the end for Hudson's was the opening of their suburban stores? It seems to me that if they, or even Crowley's, resisted opening suburban locales and offered incentives to come downtown, they might still be in business or something still down there.

See my lengthy post from a couple of years ago:

http://atdetroit.net/cgi-bin/foroum/...11&page=117144

And this article:

http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_03_15_a_malls.html

[daddeeo]

Still looking for any photos of retail or other things in the GRand River and Grenfield area of Detroit.

[SWMAP]

So long since Detroit had a department store.

[MidTownMs]

Himelhoch's is an apartment building.

[DetroitPlanner]

Nothing that grand left. That would have been Hudson's, Crowleys [[first built as Partridge & Blackwell) and Kern's. All gone now.

Other players would have been Demery's, People's Outfitters, Saks, also all gone.

Saks is still there. It was on the lower level of the New Center Building [[now called Albert Kahn Building). Across the street from it is New Center one. New Center one contained a two story Crowleys for about a dozen years after it left its Woodward Avenue New Center Location.

The rest of the department stores could be considered mini-department stores along Woodward. These would include Himilhochs [[sp), Woolworth, and Kresgee.

[Zackdog]

Or, as in Crowley's case, being ran into the ground by the ceo.

[Danny]

Dave Bing on Detroit's department stores

"When I was a kid my parents and my friends used to hang out at JL Hudson's Dept. Store, Kern's, Crowley's and Federal's. They have best displays of fashions, products, sweet goodies and held super sale events and parades. When JL Hudson close Downtown Detroit wasn't the same. So other small retail close the following year and half of Downtown Detroit look like a ghostown. We may have no dept store, but Downtown Detroit finally have Compureware."

[Don K]

In a word, NO.

Many of the nations department stores opened numerous branches, and maintained prosperous downtown stores for decades.

Right. Hudson's, like any other large-city department store, was just going where their customers were. In 1950, Detroit had 1.85 million people, and the rest of the three counties had 1.17 million. By 1960, Detroit had 1.67 million, and the traditional burbs were up to 2.09 million. Had Hudson's not moved into the malls, someone moderately-priced [[Marshall Field's? Lazarus?) would have, and would have eaten Hudson's lunch.

[daddeeo]

There are shell of Cunnunghams, Wards, Federals, Kresge and J.C. Penny stores on Grand River near Greenfield still there. All the others are long gone.

[daddeeo]

Last hope is Detroit Historical Designation Advisory Board and the 1976 Detroit Urban Conservation Project survey. Supposedly, they took lots of phtos.