Help Identify Industrial Site

[Eastside]

Greetings--

I know this is a long shot, but does anyone have any idea of what was once at the area of St. Paul and Beaufait on Detroit's eastside? Based on the attached photos I took, It appears to be some type of railroad track structure. When this was built they used logs for support therefore I'd guess this was constructed in the late 1800's.

Thanks!

[Detroitnerd]

A railroad used to run along Beaufait. You can still feel the bumps on Mack. Right-of-way has been vacant for decades now, IIRC.

[Hornwrecker]

There were a few coal yards located on Beaufait and Bellevue along the tracks. Most of them had an elevated trestle to unload the hoppers to be lifted into the storage silos.

There were at least three coal yards located in the immediate area. If you want it narrowed down, will need more info as to the location. Is it north or south of St Paul, is it closer to Beaufait or Bellvue, and the orientation of the former trestle/track[[N to S)if possible?

[MikeM]

What Hornwrecker said; elevated track for dumping hoppers. Unless it was bridge supports to go over Savoyard Creek, but they don't look that old.

[gnome]

To me it looks like the remnants of a lumber yard and with the HQ for the Sibley Lumber Company at Beaufait and Kercheval, I'd place my bets on that.

[MikeM]

There were no businesses along the east side of Beaufait. Back in the 1930s the west side of Bellevue had a coal company at the southwest corner of Kercheval & Bellevue [[Chene Coal Co.), and one at the southwest corner of St Paul & Bellevue [[Columbia Coal Co.).

[Hornwrecker]

There were no businesses along the east side of Beaufait. Back in the 1930s the west side of Bellevue had a coal company at the southwest corner of Kercheval & Bellevue [[Chene Coal Co.), and one at the southwest corner of St Paul & Bellevue [[Columbia Coal Co.).

The 1922 Sanborn map shows a W.T. Bowen, Coal & Coke at Kercheval and Bellevue, with Pitmans and Dean Ice & Coal across the tracks at Beaufait and Kercheval. Farther down Bellevue, past St Paul, the Van Antwerp & Co coalyard is located on a track curving off of the main rail line. Down by E. Lafayette and Bellevue, A.W. Cooney Coal & Coke was located at the SW corner.

Here's a photo of a coal unloading trestle that is still standing in Ann Arbor.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/110/2...604ddfbda5.jpg

[BillyBBrew]

If I recall, those concrete supports are on Bellvue just south of St. Paul on the West side. I'll drive by there today sortof on my way to New Baltimore....

[MikeM]

1922 Sanborn, north at top, Beaufait on left, rear of buildings on Bellevue on right,between St Paul and Kercheval:

Attachment 4006
Attachment 4007

The north end has coal sheds on both sides of the track, the south end has lumber company shed on the west side.

[MikeM]

Hornwrecker beat me again.

[Hornwrecker]

Hornwrecker beat me again.

I was too lazy to open up Photoshop, so you win this round, Mr M.

[gnome]

http://www.bing.com/maps/#JnE9eXAuYm...jc2NTA4MjEwNTU=

In this Bing map, it looks like those cement things are on the property that was owned by Sibley Lumber; are you guys saying that those cement things are supports for a railroad siding that served the coal company to the north on Beaufait?

[BillyBBrew]

I did drive by it today and it was on the NE corner of Beaufait and St. Paul and runs between St. Paul and Kercheval. The concrete abutments are close to where the railroad tracks used to be.

[MikeM]

Looking at the old aerial photos, you can see the shadow of the trestle structure, and a trench or cut alongside. The cut also appears in Eastside's last photo. I think hopper cars probably discharged coal, stone, or other building materials there, filling the bays between the supports, and trucks could drive into the cut to load the coal or materials for delivery.

Attachment 4010

Attachment 4011

[jjaba]

Alls you guys should join the Society of Industrial Archeology. You are that good; totally professional in knowledge, skills, and rapid service. You are the whizkids of Detroit ruins.
jjaba, admiring some Eastsiders at work.

[Eastside]

Great info all-

- Stosh - yes, the wooded area is along Beaufait between St Paul and Kercheval
- BillyBBrew - Yes,the cement supports are located between St Paul and Kercheval and Beaufait and Bellevue. They are very close to St. Paul. It does appear to be RR tracks at one time because of the open, abandoned space from St. Paul leading toward the river
- MikeM - Photo number 4 is looking toward Kercheval from St Paul and the cut it is about 5' - 6' from the top of the bank, similar to a creek bed

So based on the feedback, it appears these were probably built in the late teens or early 20's? What does everyone think? I'm still thinking earlier because of the log reinforcement along the banks. But, who knows?

Thanks all for the info! The eastside must have been rockin back then with manufacturing. I always enjoy riding my bike through those neighborhoods. Interesting stuff.

Thanks for everyone's input! Truly appreciated.

Eastside

[Mikeg]

The 1894 city directory for Beaufait Ave. and an 1889 map of the area indicate that back then, this area was mostly residential.

The west side of Beaufait and both sides of Bellevue between St. Paul and Kercheval were mostly residential. The absence of even numbered addresses on Beaufait would indicate that the east side of the street was undeveloped at that time.

[Hornwrecker]

I wouldn't read anything into the log retaining wall; they just may have used what was around or what was the cheapest thing to use.

Photo #2 looks like there is a mound of dirt at the end, which could either be part of an old ramp or where the bumper was. Hard to tell without knowing which way it's facing or the shape of it.

The only way to really know for sure is to measure the piers, the distances between them, and do more exploring of the terrain. Also, digging a test hole between the piers may turn up evidence of coal, coke, gravel or whatever [[or maybe not). It wouldn't hurt to have an expert on concrete form history to look at the piers to see if that can date them. I have no idea about if this is possible.

[Eastside]

- Hornwrecker - Next time I'm down that way I'll check out the mound of dirt. I didn't pay close attention to that when I was by there yesterday.

Good idea on digging a test hole. It could prove to be beneficial.

Thanks!

I wouldn't read anything into the log retaining wall; they just may have used what was around or what was the cheapest thing to use.

Photo #2 looks like there is a mound of dirt at the end, which could either be part of an old ramp or where the bumper was. Hard to tell without knowing which way it's facing or the shape of it.

The only way to really know for sure is to measure the piers, the distances between them, and do more exploring of the terrain. Also, digging a test hole between the piers may turn up evidence of coal, coke, gravel or whatever [[or maybe not). It wouldn't hurt to have an expert on concrete form history to look at the piers to see if that can date them. I have no idea about if this is possible.

[Hornwrecker]

- Hornwrecker - Next time I'm down that way I'll check out the mound of dirt. I didn't pay close attention to that when I was by there yesterday.

If the mound is on the north side, it's probably the remains of the ramp, on the south, then possible bumper. Maybe you found a long lost henge, if it's not a hopper unloading ramp.

Isn't the old Koenig coal silo still standing near Riopelle? I seem to remember some being along the DTRR near Conner, but they're probably long gone.

Old Coal Yard thread?

[reddog289]

This is an interesting thread. Bing maps, Google maps, and old directories got me amazed by the knowledge here.
While reading the directory page posted I noticed a Belt Line station listed and the name Conrad Pfieffer brewer which led me down the street to the old Pfieffer brewery.This history stuff is one big puzzle that I enjoy watching it being put together.

[Eastside]

Greetings--

Not familiar with the Koenig coal silo. Perhaps another bicycle trip is in order.



Isn't the old Koenig coal silo still standing near Riopelle? I seem to remember some being along the DTRR near Conner, but they're probably long gone.

Old Coal Yard thread?[/QUOTE]

[eastdetroit48224]

Does anyone know any more info about Sibley Lumber? What they did, who the owners were etc.?

[MikeM]

Eastside, you're welcome. I happened to be passing by today anyway. The Beaufait/Bellevue area along the Michigan Central was an early industrial corridor before industries leap-frogged farther east to the city limits and along the Detroit Terminal Railroad. I don't remember much about it before it was abandoned because there was nothing remarkable about it - just a bunch of small industries, warehouses, scrapyards, etc. Eastsiders would frequently use Charlevoix and Vernor to get back and forth downtown. I do remember getting stuck at the railroad crossings for long periods of time, watching a train roll by at one mile-per-hour.

Does anyone know any more info about Sibley Lumber? What they did, who the owners were etc.?

From Clarence Burton's CIty of Detroit, 1922:

FREDERIC M. SIBLEY, president of the F. M. Sibley Lumber Company, was born in Detroit, October 29, 1883, and while spending his youthful days in the home of his parents, Frederic M. and Mary J. [[Clapp) Sibley, he attended the public schools, mastering the work of successive grades until he had completed a course in the Central high school. He afterward won the LL. B. degree from the Detroit College of Law in 1908 and was likewise a student for a time in Cornell University.

Mr. Sibley became connected with the lumber trade as assistant to his father, the organizer of the present business, and acted as treasurer of the F. M. Sibley Lumber Company until the father's death, when he succeeded to the presidency. This is a close corporation, his mother being vice president of the company. The business was organized as a corporation in 1908, after many years successful existence under individually controlled ownership. F. M. Sibley, the founder, remained in active charge until October, 1912, when death called him, and his son, Frederic M. Sibley, became then the directing head of the business, which is one of the substantial proportions, four yards being conducted in Detroit and one in Pontiac. Nearly four hundred people are employed in the conduct of this business, which is the second largest lumber enterprise of Detroit. Frederic MI. Sibley of this review is proving an excellent executive and man of board business vision, forming his plans carefully, his purpose being at all times dominated by a laudable ambition and by thoroughly reliable and constructive business methods.

On the 12th of August, 1910, Mr. Sibley was married to Miss Mabel M. Bessenger and they have four children: Josephine, Frederic M., Jr., Dorothy, and Suzanne. They now occupy an attractive home at Grosse Pointe Park. The religious faith of the family is that of the Presbyterian church and Mr. Sibley is serving as a deacon in the First Presbyterian church of Detroit. He gives his political endorsement to the republican party and he has membership in the Board of Commerce and also in the Theta Lambda Phi, a college fraternity. Moreover, he has an interesting military record, for he served in the World war, joining the Signal Corps. He was connected with the bureau of aircraft production, in which capacity he had charge of all airplane propeller production, buying all the mahogany and hardwoods used in their manufacture. He purchased the propellers manufactured in this country and used by the United States forces during the war, being stationed at Washington, D. C., and he saw service from December 15, 1917, until the 1st of January, 1919. During this period his private business interests were placed in the background that his attention might be given to his military duty, and following his discharge he returned to Detroit to assume once more active control of the important and extensive business of which he is the head.

[gnome]

Detroit Royality ...going back to the British ... gotta run but I think the name to search on google book is either Soloman Sibley or Silas Sibley ... lawyer, supreme court justice, lumberman ... his decendants expanded the lumber trade and inturn hooked up with a guy named Fruehauf and designed a detachable trailer that could be hauled by a truck.

Scions of the Pointes... social register, Yontagnaga members, DAC and DIA founders, ...