Woodward Avenue Retail Development Activity

[casscorridor]

yeah... does it really matter that much that we don't have a downtown department store? They would just sell the same old crap they sell at suburban malls. I'd much rather have a dozen unique boutiques than one shitty department store. However, I would still welcome a department store because it act as an anchor and attract other stores. Regardless though, I wouldn't shop there.

[douglasm]

I wonder if downtown could market itself in the same way "historic" districts like Seattle's Pioneer Square or Chicago's Old Town do? That might be a viable plan.....

[Detroit Stylin]

I wonder if downtown could market itself in the same way "historic" districts like Seattle's Pioneer Square or Chicago's Old Town do? That might be a viable plan.....

The Entire Downtown....

[casscorridor]

I wonder if downtown could market itself in the same way "historic" districts like Seattle's Pioneer Square or Chicago's Old Town do? That might be a viable plan.....

Interesting idea. Perhaps, but I don't it would make sense marketing the whole Downtown. Especially when Midtown is currently developing faster, slowly becoming more of a retail hub than Downtown.

Perhaps the "Necklace district" could market itself this way, playing on its historic legacy of being the city's main retail district. This is where most of the department stores were located, and smaller stores along Washington, Woodward and Broadway. In addition, the area is still pretty dense, unlike the western part of Downtown which is made up almost entirely of parking lots, walled off streets and fortress like buildings. The Necklace is a stark contrast to this, with the old Woodward street grid, narrow streets, and lots of storefronts [[even though most are empty).

[DetroitPlanner]

Before you open your mouth, please think.

What part of off the top of my head did you not understand? Thanks for your correction, but your snippy one-up response does not help the thread, only your ego. I would not consider Filiene's Basement a full fledged Department Store. The Fielines part went away years ago. Hermrod also mentioned Baltimore, why not attack him too?

The point of my response was that there are very few Downtown department stores left. Even New York has a lot fewer than it had 15 years ago. While Chicago has several, none are like they used to be.

This link seems to have quite a bit of info on whats left. http://www.brandlandusa.com/2008/12/...rtment-stores/

This link describes the phenomena, either go after discounters or die
http://missoulian.com/news/local/art...cc4c002e0.html

[stasu1213]

Yes, nothing drives foot trafic like computer stores.

I'd think restaurants would work there that served liquor.

It could be the beginning. There is open space in the Ernst and Young building that could hold a restuarant/bar.

[stasu1213]

I stil say that there should be shuttle busses that will take you to the malls in the surrounding suburbs from downtown detroit non stop. When visitors come into town and ask for places to shop, detroit could accomodate.

[kryptonite]

I can remember the last department stores in Akron, OH closing in the late 70's - Polsky's and O'Neil's. Also, I expect many mid-sized US cities no longer have a downtown dept. store - Flint, Toledo, Akron, etc.

Dept. stores are high cost and require a high population living/working downtown to survive. Most of the remaining ones are selling exactly what is sold in their suburban stores, and no longer offer some things like appliances, furniture, hardware, etc. depending on the chain. At one time Detroit's Hudson's was a one-stop store that sold almost everything.

[Hermod]

At one time Detroit's Hudson's was a one-stop store that sold almost everything.

Yes, travel agency, printing service [[wedding invites and business cards), sporting goods, furniture, toys, books, magazines, comics, discount store in the basement, restaurants, cafeterias, beauty salon, etc.

[DetroitPlanner]

Yes, travel agency, printing service [[wedding invites and business cards), sporting goods, furniture, toys, books, magazines, comics, discount store in the basement, restaurants, cafeterias, beauty salon, etc.

Furniture and large appliances too. Remember there were no Best Buys back then, and the Hudson Trucks were everywhere through the 1970's. The way we shop has changed, we provide a lot more self-service. For many its nothing to go to best buy with a pick-up to get your appliance, then pay [[or haul it yourself) to get the old one out. Back then the delivery guys would come, take out the old, set-up the new and there would never be an additional charge. Yeah we may save money now, but we work a lot harder doing it. Plus those without a pickup are pretty much screwed.

This is one of the many changes downtown shopping has to adapt to, and why if there are any stores that are still successful downtown, they are typically clothing.

What we really need, and this may sound sexist, is more jobs downtown that cater to the career women. If you go to the mall and look at how much square footage sells womens apparel as opposed to men, you would know that women drive retail trends.

[Dabirch]

What part of off the top of my head did you not understand? Thanks for your correction, but your snippy one-up response does not help the thread, only your ego. I would not consider Filiene's Basement a full fledged Department Store. The Fielines part went away years ago. Hermrod also mentioned Baltimore, why not attack him too?

The point of my response was that there are very few Downtown department stores left. Even New York has a lot fewer than it had 15 years ago. While Chicago has several, none are like they used to be.

This link seems to have quite a bit of info on whats left. http://www.brandlandusa.com/2008/12/...rtment-stores/

This link describes the phenomena, either go after discounters or die
http://missoulian.com/news/local/art...cc4c002e0.html

Actually my snippy response does help the thread and the conversation. It points out that 3 of the first 4 examples you cited to support your premise were fatually incorrect. I could have said it nicer - but when people repeatedly are wrong about things that are purported facts it gets annoying to be nice.

And don't get me started on the Pittsburgh rationale. Reeediculous.

[dtowncitylover]

I have an off-topic question that can be answered fast if someone knows for sure:

Did Detroit or Michigan have ever host a Gimbels location?

[DetroitPlanner]

I have an off-topic question that can be answered fast if someone knows for sure:

Did Detroit or Michigan have ever host a Gimbels location?

No. Detroit had a good number of local department stores. National High end stores did not arrive until much later. The earliest being Saks in New Center.

[dtowncitylover]

No. Detroit had a good number of local department stores. National High end stores did not arrive until much later. The earliest being Saks in New Center.

Yeah, I knew our department stores. But I learned Gimbels owned Saks, so I guess it would be redundant.

I read in 20th Century Retailing in Downtown Detroit that Macy's and Marshall Field's had interest in the Kern's building, wish they could have done something there.

[Carey]

Forgive me if this has been posted, but someone I know in the restaurant business says a Brazilian steak house is going into the old Border's space at Compuware.

[Detroit Stylin]

That will take off like a rocket on crack in that space....I hope it comes to pass...

[Detroit Stylin]

No. Detroit had a good number of local department stores. National High end stores did not arrive until much later. The earliest being Saks in New Center.

Hudson's was national in its own right though...

[DetroitDad]

Furniture and large appliances too. Remember there were no Best Buys back then, and the Hudson Trucks were everywhere through the 1970's. The way we shop has changed, we provide a lot more self-service. For many its nothing to go to best buy with a pick-up to get your appliance, then pay [[or haul it yourself) to get the old one out. Back then the delivery guys would come, take out the old, set-up the new and there would never be an additional charge. Yeah we may save money now, but we work a lot harder doing it. Plus those without a pickup are pretty much screwed.

This is one of the many changes downtown shopping has to adapt to, and why if there are any stores that are still successful downtown, they are typically clothing.

What we really need, and this may sound sexist, is more jobs downtown that cater to the career women. If you go to the mall and look at how much square footage sells womens apparel as opposed to men, you would know that women drive retail trends.

You're getting warmer... in fact you're hot!

But, retail is in the early stages of changing, completely changing, again.

[Hermod]

Hudson's was national in its own right though...

Hudson's was never national. Until Northland was built, the downtown store was the only store. As malls were built in Michigan, Hudson's expanded into them. Hudson's was never more than a regional department store.

[dtowncitylover]

But, retail is in the early stages of changing, completely changing, again.

Explain. Internet, like it was before [[one department store for everything), what?

[Detroit Stylin]

Hudson's was never national. Until Northland was built, the downtown store was the only store. As malls were built in Michigan, Hudson's expanded into them. Hudson's was never more than a regional department store.

Review your notes and take the exam again, you appeared to have failed history....

[jonathanlivingstonseagull]

Review your notes and take the exam again, you appeared to have failed history....

Care to explain how Hudson's was "national"? Outside of Michigan, there was one store in Ohio and two in Indiana.

[dtowncitylover]

Care to explain how Hudson's was "national"? Outside of Michigan, there was one store in Ohio and two in Indiana.

Beat me to it, yeah Hudson's was never located outside of these three states, and I'm sure the downstaters of those states didn't know of Hudson's.

[douglasm]

DetroitPlanner's comment about jobs [[I really don't care if they're for men or women, let's just say people) is a good one, but it doesn't really help retail that much. I worked in a dying retail downtown in Colorado that had lots of banks and office buildings. The only effect those buildings had was create a small rush at lunch hour and 5 o'clock. The people who work in those buildings don't generate constant traffic. Resturants did well, though.

Office buildings [[and banks) do not make for a good retail environment, unless they have storefronts on the street level, and do not add to the retail traffic flow because everyone is cooped up in the building. I'll grant you the example is poor because the town is small [[30,000), but in the close by "large" town to me. there are 2 banks on one end of the downtown area, and the convention center on the other. Foot traffic pretty much stops at those "roadblocks", and "traditional" retail doesn't exist much past either building, the services being destination type stores rather than "walkbys".

[Detroit Stylin]

Beat me to it, yeah Hudson's was never located outside of these three states, and I'm sure the downstaters of those states didn't know of Hudson's.

Well consider me enlightened...