Healthcare for all!

[Bobl]

It is interesting, but not surprising, to note that the same "conservatives" who warn that government involvement will "come between the patient and the doctor" [[as if HMOs haven't already accomplished this) now have come between female patients and their doctor by prohibiting medically necessary abortions in this bill.

[ghettopalmetto]

It is interesting, but not surprising, to note that the same "conservatives" who warn that government involvement will "come between the patient and the doctor" [[as if HMOs haven't already accomplished this) now have come between female patients and their doctor by prohibiting medically necessary abortions in this bill.

So much for keeping the government out of our lives in order to preserve "freedom" and "liberty".

[oladub]

First, show me where there's been inflation in the United States. Go on..

Ok. The grocery store, medical care, and taxes for starters. Or did you mean relative to other currencies? The cost of a Euro has risen from a low of $.85 to its present $1.50. Or did you mean relative to gold which is what our money is supposed to be backed with? The price of gold has climbed to $1100. Actually, you misused the word inflation. Inflation refers to the increase in the money supply. The federal government/privately owned fed has added about $10T to the money supply in the last year I think. Higher prices are just a product of inflation. Case in point - Zimbabwe or Weimar Republic - take your pick.

A lot of current government spending has to do with the necessary stimulus plan passed earlier this year [[which you ignore), and two ongoing wars, one of which was wholly unnecessary. Those two items alone will amount to $800 billion or so in FY 2010. You're attributing a temporary blip to a long-term trend. I still don't see what this has to do with health insurance premiums.

I don't ignore Porkulus spending. It is a failure only masking the deteriorating economy. However, half of the Cash for Clunkers Porkulus money was spent on foreign product so it may have stimulated the Korean economy. CBS is reporting that President Obama has decided to add another 40,000 troops to help catch Osama in Afghanistan or whatever we are doing there. Thats on top of the 34,000 troops he has already added there. Obama already has more troops combined in Afghanistan and Iraq than Bush ever had there . President Obama is asking for more money. As we are printing money , a la Zimbabwe, to finance all these things, we will just have to print more for the unaffordable Obamacare. [[p.s. we could have cut the budget with a Canadian single payer system instead)

Your contention that the government is "soaking" us is simply not valid, as I pointed out that tax rates are lower now than they were in 2000. You discounted this point when it was inconvenient for you [["taxes are not the same as government spending") but used it when it was convenient for you. Which is it?.

I didn't discount it. I pointed out that government spending and tax rates are two differnet things. President Obama has quadrupled Bush's largest defecit. The spending equals the insufficient taxes plus the debt assigned our children. Tough luck kids!

In the meantime, health insurance premiums are projected to double by 2020, and double again by 2030. Can you [[or your employer) afford that?.

Increased costs aka inflation tends to halve the value of dollars every ten years anyway. Are you taking that into account? If you are, then I don't see how many Americans can afford either a doubling of either taxes or health care premiums. Spending an extra $100B, $3T, or whatever Obamacare is going to cost simply transfers the expense of the expensive health care system to taxpayers. Then you will be taxed out of your home but at least have the illusion that health care costs haven't gone up.

I suppose you'd rather create a government straw man, though, and defend to the death the right of corporations to exploit people for their own bottom lines.

Alas, no. I actually see government and mega corporations as largely overlapping. That is why Bush and the Democrats were so generous to their banker freinds and it is why the health insurance companies are being rewarded with another 30-48 million paying customers. This isn't just for corporations. It also helps re-elect the politicains they rent.

[ccbatson]

Can we hold you to the claim that there is no danger of inflation Ghetto?

Revenues to a government go up when taxes are down...the Laffer curve

[d.mcc]

So much for keeping the government out of our lives in order to preserve "freedom" and "liberty".

When will you learn that the only time the government needs to be out of our lives is when it comes to guns and the two nice gentlemen next door getting married...?

[ccbatson]

Not "out"...just "limited".

[ghettopalmetto]

Oladub, I question how you assign the term "inflation" to the goods and services you mention.

Are your food costs higher because the price of petroleum has risen? Or is it due to inflation. If you're buying a head of lettuce that has been flown from California's Central Valley, you really have no room to complain. If you're buying pre-packaged processed crap from a multi-national food conglomerate, you have no room to complain.

Are health care costs rising due to inflation? Or are they rising because of treatments, expensive prescription drugs [[that need your $$$ for TV commercials!), and record-breaking insurance company profits?

How do taxes rise as a result of inflation? Taxes are based on fixed rates.

As you'll note in this convenient table from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, inflation has actually become NEGATIVE since the bottom fell out of the economy. It also shows that it took almost 25 years for prices to double--not 10--from 1985 to 2009.

[[CAREFUL! Data here!)

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/cpi/cpiai.txt

[ccbatson]

I mentioned no specific inflation for any goods and services, nor did I say taxes increase as a result of inflation...what are you talking about?

[ccbatson]

Was that me? I don't think so.

[Papasito]

It took Reagan to make the dollar worth something again after Carter

Hopefully someone will come along to save the dollar after Obama

[d.mcc]

It took Reagan to make the dollar worth something again after Carter

Hopefully someone will come along to save the dollar after Obama

Uh...the dollar was at its lowest under Bush II... Did you forget that little stretch in 2007 when the Canadian Dollar was worth more? Oooooooof course you did

[oladub]

Oladub, I question how you assign the term "inflation" to the goods and services you mention.

Are your food costs higher because the price of petroleum has risen? Or is it due to inflation. If you're buying a head of lettuce that has been flown from California's Central Valley, you really have no room to complain. If you're buying pre-packaged processed crap from a multi-national food conglomerate, you have no room to complain.

When the tuna can gets smaller and yet becomes more expensive, the price in increase is known as inflation. The foreign labor, the petroleum, the exchange rate all cost more in dollars as the value of the dollar declines. A major reason the dollar is declining is because the Chinese and everyone else has figured out that the printing of US dollars, the actual increase in the money supply, will create a supply/demand imbalance of dollars making them worth less. Therefore the petroleum and the rest, if imported, will cost more in dollars.

The only way our government can pay off the national debt is by inflating the dollar. There is no way out. You can increase taxes and cut out some wars but that won't be nearly enough. If the economy would actually catch fire, [[It won't It's too late.) interest rate and commodities prices would skyrocket and snuff the economy.

Are health care costs rising due to inflation? Or are they rising because of treatments, expensive prescription drugs [[that need your $$$ for TV commercials!), and record-breaking insurance company profits?

How do taxes rise as a result of inflation? Taxes are based on fixed rates.

Medical costs are rising for all of your stated reasons, the cost of government regulations, corruption, and more. Putting these rising costs on the government side of the ledger will help some people and hurt other people but it won't reduce the cost - not Obama's plan anyway.

Government costs increase because of inflation. Taxes rise when government choose to increase them. As inflation pushes people into higher income tax brackets, the fixed rates increase. Of course, there are always new taxes like the proposed middle class cap and trade tax which will cost, according to the CBO, about $1,600/family.

As you'll note in this convenient table from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, inflation has actually become NEGATIVE since the bottom fell out of the economy. It also shows that it took almost 25 years for prices to double--not 10--from 1985 to 2009.

[[CAREFUL! Data here!)

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/cpi/cpiai.txt

There is data in the grocery store, doctor's bill, and tax bills too. Clinton phonied the CPI and Bush did not correct Clinton's deceipt. Social Security checks wouod be coinsiderably higher had Clinton not altered the system. If the sheeple are happy with 43% less money in their social security checks, it will at least extend the Social Security system.

"In particular, changes made in CPI methodology during the Clinton Administration understated inflation significantly, and, through a cumulative effect with earlier changes that began in the late-Carter and early Reagan Administrations have reduced current social security payments by roughly half from where they would have been otherwise. That means Social Security checks today would be about double had the various changes not been made. In like manner, anyone involved in commerce, who relies on receiving payments adjusted for the CPI, has been similarly damaged."
http://www.shadowstats.com/article/consumer_price_index

[ccbatson]

Under Bush II while he was spending like a liberal.

[Detroitej72]

Under Bush II while he was spending like a liberal.

Conservatives spend just as much as supposed liberals, yet their sheep blindly ignore that fact because Papa Rush tells them to.

[jiminnm]

The National Debt now stands at about $12.1 trillion, up 14% under the Obama administration. Last info I saw, China holds 30-35% of the debt. The debt is now about $39,000 per citizen and about 7 times annual federal tax revenues.

[ccbatson]

Not as much, but it is still bad...just a matter of degree. If one good thing comes from all of this, it will be a repudiation of big and growing government.

[Stosh]

Speak English, please.

[ccbatson]

Sorry...Republicans do not spend as much...now it should make more sense.

[Detroitej72]

Sorry...Republicans do not spend as much...now it should make more sense.

Since they aren't in power, it should stand to reason.

If you look at the U.S. government since 1980, when Ronny took over, you'll see the American debt has constantly risen steadily, with brief interruptions during Clinton's time in office, to all time highs during Right wing, conservative Republican regimes.

Obama's time in office is still to be determined.

[ghettopalmetto]

[ccbatson]

Not what I meant...when they were in office [[GWB) they spent too much, but nowhere near [[by a factor of 4 and rising fast) Obama's pace. The economy can only sustain so much, and Obama just pegged the throttle.

[mjs]

What news do you watch? It was barely a year ago that the Republican president pushed for a bill that raised our debt $700 billion in a single pen stroke. It accomplished nothing of course as all of the economists not receiving a Goldman pension had predicted. Actually, the majority of this recession, as universally defined by economists, has been under a Republican administration. You'll have to wait until March until you can say a Democrat has been in charge of this disaster for as long as the Republican.

So, at that point, please feel free to turn off the Fox entertainment channel and the GE advertising network and listen to some unbiased news or actually track one or two bills of interest to you so you can actually vote on what was done rather than who had the prettiest speech or most misleading commercial.

P.S. If you want to know who blew our money the fastest, look at the graph above, rate is determined by the slope of that graph. See how Bush's last days go straight up?

[mjs]

Think of it this way; Obama's health care bill is enormous and it will cost a trillion dollars over ten years. That's $100,000,000,000 a year! Unfortunately, that's only the interest on the Goldman-Bush bill passed last October. I don't like any expansion of federal government, be it Democrat handholding or Republican handcuffing, but only one of those bills makes me feel ill while the other at least trys to help us recover from the illness.

[oladub]

Bush bad, Obama worse in spending. Also a difference between the Congressional Budget Office and White House estimates. "President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama would add another $1 trillion."

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/...t-in-pictures/

Federal deficits -

[ccbatson]

Look at the slope...700 over 8 years [[yes, bad), versus 1Trillion in less than 1 year.