Health Care Reform Rally today in Royal Oak

[Det_ard]

More notice next time please, this happened only an hour or two after I woke up. Was lunch provided?

[1KielsonDrive]

I'm not claiming to be an expert but I am claiming to be experienced. I'm uninsured because of premium requirements due to pre-existing conditions. I've had a few bad breaks [[mostly bones, like my arms, legs, back and skull) that occured mostly during my way too long and callow youth. I'm still in better shape than most people my age. All vital signs are good, I exercise religiously and eat well. Those pesky insurance companies just don't want me. And I'm from a family of insurance agents. I knew long ago that the companies were scammers. My knowledge came from working with, and for, them for years. I found myself unemployed for the first time in my life during the last two years. I've never been without work in my adult life. Usually multiple jobs. I mean I went from the phones ringing constantly to nothing. Nada! Okay, so I have to spend all of the retirement money I've saved and invested for 40 years to pay huge premiums. One option I have is to buy myself a [[job) business so I can make enough money to pay my premiums. But, in the meantime, if I pay the premiums for very long, I'll spend the money I need to pay for a business. That's a rock and a hard place. I'm one accident from losing everything I've worked for all of my life. In addition, I have a younger sister who is mentally disabled [[retarded) who receives social security. Her SS doesn't cover all of her living costs, so we have to pitch in. Thank god for Medicare. My dear, sweet sister has ongoing medical problems. Don't know what we'd do without her Medicare. I'm all for Single Payer. The only people who oppose it are the rich, CEO's, idealogues, self righteous, lobbyists and the deluded. Bush gave a trillion dollars of tax breaks to the rich - REVOKE THEM! We're in a war that cost billions per day - END IT! The Medicare Drug Benefit passed by the Bush administration is a quarter to a half a trillion dollar giveaway to drug companies - STOP IT! Give me the same thing my elected representatives have - paid medical coverage. As much as I may mistrust my government, I mistrust politicians and insurance companies MORE. I'll take Medicaid/are.

[1KielsonDrive]

BTW, this bullshit about Canadians not loving their medical coverage is manufactured by the press - actually the Faux [[Fox) News. I have many Canadian friends, neighbors and family members who complain from time to time about their coverage. But if you ask them straight up if they'd have anything remotely similar to our US system, they'd cry. There's always one or two who scream 'foul'. Wouldn't you know it, the Faux [[Fox[[) news would dig them up? The Canadian system is so far superior to ours, it's ridiculous. Every system can stand improvement and tweaking. The Canadian system is no exception. The US system needs to be trashed and started over from scratch. Unfortunately, that's not going to happen. That's the tragedy of this situation.

[PeachLaser]

Hey, we're #37!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVgOl3cETb4

[Lowell]

...and, oh yes, those better Canadian health outcomes that I mentioned come at a cost of thousands less per capita than our failed model. I find that the biggest opponents of health reform are those who don't have to pay for their health care. I challenge them to go out on their own pay $20,000 a year -- whether or not they have work or a job --- face double digit annual increases year after year and then tell this forum how wonderful our system is.

It is ironic that those who tout entrepreneurialism as the answer to our economy also support the single biggest obstacle to people rolling those dice -- out of control health insurance. In some ways maybe it would be better for health reform to fail and let the health insurance industry squeeze everbyody out of coverage, except the very wealthy and very healthy, so that folks would be so fed up that they would demand and get true single payer reform and abolish private health insurance exploitation.

[ridgeabilly]

[IMG]file:///Users/donaldjones/Library/Caches/TemporaryItems/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]

[oladub]

Another rock and a hard place situation is where the country is at with regards to health care. There is a lot wrong with the cabol of insurance companies, lawyers and salesmen feasting on the payers of our present system. A Canadian provincial type universal and affordable system was never allowed on the table for consideration. Obamacare is an expansion of our present costly system that addresses the universal component at the expense of the affordable component. The non-productive parts of our present system are given more to feast on.

Governments in the US already spend more per capita on US residents than Canadian governments spend per capita on Canadian residents. Had the US, instead, adopted the Canadian system, we all could have stopped paying for health insurance, our states could have provided a Canadian level of universal care, and sent us the change instead of tax increases.

Instead of 'taxation without representation', Democrats have, in the spirit of Mussolini's corporatism, broken new ground by creating 'mandates without compensation'. Expect more of the same as the dollar collapses. That's another point in favor of a Canadian provincial type system. Our economy is failing and we need to become more efficient, rather than to expand upon inefficiencies, to stave off collapse.

[mrrichard]

Obama's Burden will be on you.
You can be FINED by the IRS thousands of dollars if you fail to enroll when your employer
elects to stop paying for your fine health insurance plan that most people like.
The tax and health cost burden on families will increase thousands of dollars and many will lose their doctors they have now.
This is not only insane bill by an insane freak, Pelosi, it is unconstitutional and
even though the Senate wont pass it, if they did, there would be a violent revolution
in this country I beleive because most would not stand for it.

Harry the body Reid won't let others see his fascist bill he has planned in the Senate

The fascist democrats want total control over your life, that is the point of this bill.

[mrrichard]

Old Redfordette, you know nothing about Canadian health care because I know several people that come to the US to see doctors here because they don't want to wait a long when they have a problem or issue.

[bartock]

...and, oh yes, those better Canadian health outcomes that I mentioned come at a cost of thousands less per capita than our failed model. I find that the biggest opponents of health reform are those who don't have to pay for their health care. I challenge them to go out on their own pay $20,000 a year -- whether or not they have work or a job --- face double digit annual increases year after year and then tell this forum how wonderful our system is.

It is ironic that those who tout entrepreneurialism as the answer to our economy also support the single biggest obstacle to people rolling those dice -- out of control health insurance. In some ways maybe it would be better for health reform to fail and let the health insurance industry squeeze everbyody out of coverage, except the very wealthy and very healthy, so that folks would be so fed up that they would demand and get true single payer reform and abolish private health insurance exploitation.

You exaggerate. Last year it only cost me $15,000 for private coverage and the insurance company was nice enough to throw in my wife and kid. The $4,000 family deductible went into an HSA account pre-tax so it was only like $18,000.

[Detroitej72]

Old Redfordette, you know nothing about Canadian health care because I know...

Obviously neither do you. Ooh, you knew someone from Canada who was dissatisfied with their coverage. Do a quick search on line and you'll find tons of testimonials by satisfied Canadians who love their system.

Are you aware that there are a great number of Americans who go to Canada, Mexico, India and Europe for surgeries and medical procedures because their systems are better? And conservatives always ignore the fact that Europe and Canada have a higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality rates than America's failed system.

[Novine]

"There won't be enough doctors to go administer to their patients. It won't matter what health care you are on."

What does this tell us? It tells us that we're already rationing health care services. The only reason that many of us have a decent health care experience today is because we're willing to allow millions of our fellow citizens to go without. If we add those people to the system, of course there's going to be a shortage of medical help. It's going to take time for new doctors and nurses to be trained to fill the gap. But the alternative is to allow millions of people to go without quality health care. Easy to say "screw them" when you're getting good health care. Anyone who's getting good health care today care to change places with someone who's not? Any volunteers?

[RickBeall]

I talked to my friend who lived in Canada. In Canada if you want to see a family doctor then you are fine. There is no wait. But if you want to see a specialist, you wait 6 months to see the doctor, and then you wait an additional 6 months to get a procedure done. In this case, my friend needed a colonoscopy. He said the wait was the same for any specialist.

In Canada there are not enough specialists to go around, so if you live in Windsor, the specialists come in from other cities once a month. That is the cause of the long wait.

So in Canada, you are fine as long as you do not get too sick.

[econ expat]

Many countries have a shortage of health care specialists. Degree and training in hand, the specialists find a way to get to U.S.A. for the higher wages.
Another forum member scoffed at some of us in another thread who faced unemployment recently. The solution- 'reinvent' and get back into a field such as health care that is growing. Sure its growing, along with our health insurance and medication costs.
How much did the cost of living rise last year? Now, how much have the health insurance providers raised rates?
Health care cost reform has been 'discussed' for probably 20 years.Discussed, that's all.
"Something must be done"
Now health care reform is being shaped and proposed. Whether we agree or not, someone's doing something! That should force partisan critics and lobbyists off their asses to offer their suggestions as well. May the best plan win.Basically all we've seen so far is this 'mandatory insurance' plan.
At least change is being proposed and not just brushed off for the next administration.
NOW someone's taking action.

[oldredfordette]

RickBeall, I just got off the phone with my friend who lives in London Ont. She needed a complete work up [[her 50th birthday check-up). Her doctors apologized, she has to wait a month for her appointment. I have been trying to schedule an appointment with a doctor to give me the green light to get a similar check up, I should see a doctor somewhere around February. I have Blue Cross Blue Shield.

She also found out that her eye problem is worsening, so she's getting major eye surgery the day after the other work. She could have had it sooner, but she figured she could take a couple of days off and get everything done at once.

You are wrong.

[Novine]

"So in Canada, you are fine as long as you do not get too sick."

In the US, you are fine as long as you have health insurance. In Canada, everyone gets the guarantee of health care. In the US, no one gets that guarantee. We ration care by not giving you the assurance of care.

RickBeall, you keep complaining about the wait in Canada. Try this, drop your health insurance and then go to a doctor and see how quickly you can get an elective surgery done without health insurance. Then report back to us the results.

[RickBeall]

Oldredfordette,
I just gave you someone's experience in the Canadian Health System. You just gave me someone's experience that was the opposite. What do we make of that? The Canadian Health system works for some people and not others? .

[1KielsonDrive]

Old Redfordette, you know nothing about Canadian health care because I know several people that come to the US to see doctors here because they don't want to wait a long when they have a problem or issue.

You're correct that some Canadians come here due to waiting time for certain services. That is SOME. Not all of them and not even a lot of them. I'll give one good example right now. A Canadian friend decided to have gastric bypass. He went through all of the usual pre-op testing and evaluations. It was determined he was a good candidate and outcome was likely to be positive. He was given a couple of options, one of which was to go to Toronto [[from Windsor) or go to Detroit. Let's see, Detroit is 10 minutes away from home and Toronto is how far? He also was given approval by OHIP [[Ontario Health Insurance Plan) to have it done in Detroit and paid for by OHIP. It just so happens that Henry Ford has a gastric bypass sales program they pitch to Canadians, among other medical procedures. They work the Canadian crowd. The reason : OHIP pays all the bills and quickly. No fuss, no muss, no beureaucratic nightmares. Hospitals here in Detroit are making a bunch of money by appealing to Canadians to come over the creek instead of going to other Canadian Medical Centers. I believe they're even offering incentives. See if they'll give you [[a U.S. citizen) an incentive. I picked him up after his surgery. He had a private suite and a personal nurse. Time to go - the nurse said she must acompany him the entire way, including to take care of the bill. See if your insurance company will pay for that.

[reddog289]

Just wait till I implement my plan in 2012..

[1KielsonDrive]

So in Canada, you are fine as long as you do not get too sick.

So in the U.S, you are fine as long as you do not get sick at all.

[1KielsonDrive]

I used to spend a great amount of time in Canada, pre-9/11. Family. friends, customers, teammates, girls, etc. It wasn't uncommon for me to go through the border a couple of times a day. I shopped at Devonshire and Fried's, ate at the Keg, Sidney's, The Pasta Shop, crashed with family and friends. I was over one time and ended up in the hospital for what appeared to be an emergency. It wasn't after all. I spent a night for testing and observation and they sent me home. No bill, nothing. Not even a boo. Now that's what I call medical service. I had a similar experience at home in the U.S. I was rushed to the hospital in an ambulance. Spent a day and night in the emergency. My insurer was BC/BS. After I returned home, I was sued by the ambulance company and BC/BS. I eventually won but they beat me up in the process. And I had to pay for legal assistance. They didn't win but they made their point.

[1KielsonDrive]

Throughout my life I've worked, saved and invested,. Often multiple jobs as well as owning and operating my own businesses. I remember the times I decided to double down on my investments and savings and sacrificing to do so. Downsizing everything. This was long before the crash. I did everything by the 'American Playbook'. Crash time!!! I lost a huge chunk of my savings and investments. Lost much value in my home and lost every job I had. And I'm not in bad shape relative to many Americans who were trying to live the 'American Dream'. Yet I'm concerned my savings will disappear if I have one accident .........If I'm diagnosed with ....... If my younger sister loses her Social Security and Medicaid. Does the 'American Dream' no longer apply to middle, working class citizens? Is there any safety net for anyone other than the rich? Politicians? CEO's? Is a safety net socialism? Why is a war so easy to embark upon and a medical safety net so difficult?

[mrrichard]

'obamadontcare' is a farce, a scam and a power grab.
The socialists in power, will ration it, yes they will [[that's why it will save money right?)
they will decrease service, yes they will
they will cut medicare by billions and transfer the money to obamadontcare.

Why do so many Canadians come to the US for healt care? Because it is the best in the world
and they won't get fined of they do.

No free healthcare.
2.5% tax if you dont buy the governments plan....or up to 5 years in prison with $250,000 fine.
page 297 of hr 3962
Pay or prison, the socialist model of care. Its about power not health care.
If you love socialism, hate America and freedom then support this plan.

[Detroitej72]

'obamadontcare' is a farce, a scam and a power grab.

Your right, its been created by the right wing windbags. Now, if you want to talk about Obama's health plan, well that's another story.

The rest of your post is a bunch of rambling, bad grammar, poor spelling and outright lies perpetuated by the right wing media.

[Bearinabox]

Why do so many Canadians come to the US for healt care? Because it is the best in the world

Woohoo! Go USA! Stick your fingers in your ears, sing God Bless America till your lungs burst, and maybe you won't notice that we're choking on the dust of every civilized country on the planet. Ah, fuck 'em. They're Commies anyway.