'The city is in worse condition than I knew' -- Time blogger

**RealityCheck** · November-04-09, 01:07 PM

Wait a sec before anyone jumps on Karen Dybis as a naive Grosse Pointe Woods-er. She frankly acknowledges that a SalvArmy ride-along was eye-opening. That's brave 'n good, to me.

So I link to today's post as worth reading, worth responding to [[volunteers needed) and as evidence that Assignment Detroit elevates itself above a parachute-in journalism stunt.

Karen will post again tomorrow [[Nov. 5) on mobile soup kitchens.

The ride pushes your buttons. . . . I realized how ungrateful I am. Because the city is in worse condition than I knew. Because I was on the inside, those in need on the outside. Because I could only give a few hours when the Bed and Bread truck could have used my help all day.

. . . The three trucks have some 45 stops to make. They start around noon and finish about 6 p.m. They serve 5,000 meals daily. Some stops have a dozen people to feed; others top out at 50 and more.

**Lonyo exit** · November-04-09, 01:51 PM

It sounds like the very definition of a parachute journalist â€“ insulated woman from Grosse Pointe drops into the city and discovers, much to her surprise, that there are poor people here.

**Detroitnerd** · November-04-09, 02:02 PM

Lonyo exit: It could have been worse; she wasn't from France.

**Swimmaven** · November-04-09, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Lonyo exit

It sounds like the very definition of a parachute journalist â€“ insulated woman from Grosse Pointe drops into the city and discovers, much to her surprise, that there are poor people here.

Drop the attitude and the defensiveness. This mean comment is outdated and serves no purpose.

It is normal to stay away from danger or the perception of it. That kind of stress suicided several of my friends and passed away quite a few others. People just do not want to live around poor people. They want to help, but mostly it has to be indirect. A non-poor person does not have the tools to deal with abject desperation and the criminalness that ususally follows.

The city is in ruins. It is depressingly sad. I do not know what to suggest to redefine the area. Farms? prairies?

**Detroitnerd** · November-04-09, 03:13 PM

Oh, yes. It's just fine that somebody lives on the border of the city, probably drives through the sunken expressways all the time, yet, confronted with the mind-numbing poverty of the surface streets a brisk walk away, is surprised that it's that bad.

Usually, you have to bring in somebody from a few states away to get that kind of reaction, but here we have somebody who lives right there and has no idea what it's like. For me, that sort of sums up just how stark the regional divide is.

Anyway, at least she's learning. Good for her.

**RealityCheck** · November-04-09, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

. . . she's learning. Good for her.

My point.

Karen Dybis could've written the same post without acknowledging this:

I realized how ungrateful I am. Because the city is in worse condition than I knew.

But she didn't leave that unstated. And this public confirmation of a perception gap that's closing is something I cheer, not jeer with "an obvious observation."

The post salutes the Salvation Army, makes a pitch for volunteers and shares personal reflections from a drive that this suburban mom concedes is outside her normal experience.

Why isn't that something good, really? I'm not asking to instigate flame-throwing -- I honestly don't get it.

I value this forum, which I've participated in since fall 2003, but wish potentially constructive discussions didn't sometimes get undercut by a tone of . . . here goes, might as well say it frankly . . . smug superiority. Sometimes.

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

. . . she's learning. Good for her.

And good for you, Detroitnerd.

**Lonyo exit** · November-04-09, 04:15 PM

Reality Check,

You and Detroitnerd are correct that, on the one hand, she at least is learning. And good for her that she's at least leaving her comfort zone and trying to open her eyes.

On the other hand, it's pretty appalling to grow up just on the border of Detroit and not realize how life is for hundreds of thousands of people. Most of us would be embarrassed to publicly profess such aloofness to the suffering of others just down the street. Her admission has a Marie Antoinette quality to it. How do you grow up in the region and not realize what things are like here? How insulated can one be?

Bearinabox · November-04-09, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Swimmaven

People just do not want to live around poor people. They want to help, but mostly it has to be indirect. A non-poor person does not have the tools to deal with abject desperation and the criminalness that ususally follows.

Speak for yourself, please.

**Lonyo exit** · November-04-09, 03:14 PM

Swimmaven,
If anyone sounds defensive, it is you. I made an obvious observation. Grow up.

**EastsideAl** · November-04-09, 04:15 PM

She's supposed to be a journalist, worked for 5 years for the Detroit News as a finance writer, of all things, lives within spitting distance of the poorest large city in America, and yet she seems to have no idea what the place actually looks like or who actually resides there. I live in the city, closer to downtown than Alter Rd., and I sure as hell am aware what social and economic conditions are in GP Woods. But she sounds like she's never really thought of what the world is like over here on the other side of Moross. So she's shocked, shocked I say, to discover that all those stories her fellow journalists have been publishing about massive unemployment and poverty actually mean that the city has a lot of poor people in it, and that a lot of poor people with no resources and no income may actually need some food.

If it wasn't so sad to the point of being nearly enraging it would read like a parody. I'm happy, I guess, for all the help we can get, but she really does come off sounding insular and clueless, and just a bit dimwitted.

**SWMAP** · November-04-09, 04:51 PM

You know, I have lived in Detroit all of my life except for college. I have lived in SW Detroit since 1970. But even I am aghast at what Detroit has become. When I drove through Brightmoor recently, I was quite afraid that I would be jumped. When I drove to the UPS depot on Cicotte and saw entire burned-out blocks of what were once solid, two-family brick houses owned by immigrant Poles, I was aghast. Around Cicotte, just 5 years ago it didn't look like this.This is end times!

Why burn solid housing stock? What is there in the Detroit psychology that says to destroy? Don't we see it in our schools - buildings destroyed - and right over the border in Grosse Pointe, the schools are from my grandfather's time and very lovingly kept. And kids educated in those old buildings [[such as aren't good enough for Detroit kids) are getting the top scores.

**Zacha341** · November-14-09, 05:21 AM

Brightmore is horrid, and the Cicotte area bombed out. I would not drive thru those areas with the door unlocked. Yet in nearly ever area such is this there are people still trying to hold on, keep their lawns up, maintain their property... sad indeed!

Originally Posted by SWMAP

You know, I have lived in Detroit all of my life except for college. I have lived in SW Detroit since 1970. But even I am aghast at what Detroit has become. When I drove through Brightmoor recently, I was quite afraid that I would be jumped. When I drove to the UPS depot on Cicotte and saw entire burned-out blocks of what were once solid, two-family brick houses owned by immigrant Poles, I was aghast. Around Cicotte, just 5 years ago it didn't look like this.This is end times!

Why burn solid housing stock? What is there in the Detroit psychology that says to destroy? Don't we see it in our schools - buildings destroyed - and right over the border in Grosse Pointe, the schools are from my grandfather's time and very lovingly kept. And kids educated in those old buildings [[such as aren't good enough for Detroit kids) are getting the top scores.

**gnome** · November-04-09, 07:23 PM

A while ago I learned the difference between knowing something and KNOWING something. You can know about getting robbed, but until you get robbed, you don't know about getting robbed. Same goes for burying a wife and child, same goes for a lot of things.

The same thing with poverty around here, sounds like some folks have driven by it enough that they think they know. But it isn't until you come face-to-nose with the odor of poverty that the reality becomes real.

I know that sounds like word games, but I think the Times gal just got a big wiff of real.

**RealityCheck** · November-04-09, 08:05 PM

Good discussion. Now I'm learning, too. [[Thanks, Al and SWMAP.)

Doesn't sound like word games at all, gnome -- more like insightful distinctions, eloquently stated.

Here's one face-to-nose takeaway Karen shared that's not something any of us could glean rolling down Mack, Gratiot, Chalmers or south of Alter:

A handful of food was met with a quiet greeting and, more often, a blessing for those offering it.

I agree with bartok that "the author isn't talking about the blight you can see off of a main drag." In fact, as I went back to confirm, she never even alludes to physical blight -- just human plight.

When she uses the phrase "Detroit's most troubled neighborhoods," Karen is talking about impoverished, hungry children, women and men.

“If they ask for another meal, we give them an extra meal,” Sullivan said. “We know that might be breakfast the next day.”

Respectfully, I suggest that "insular and clueless, and just a bit dimwitted" are unjustifiably harsh descriptions for a writer who tells readers she was "feeling queasy, a mix of grim realization at what I'm watching and my own discomfort."

I regret, EastsideAl, you felt "If it wasn't so sad to the point of being nearly enraging it would read like a parody."

In any event, I'll add the Part 2 link to this thread Thursday . . . and look forward to more healthy dialogue. .

**RickBeall** · November-04-09, 08:12 PM

It would probably be a life altering experience for anyone to go out with the Salvation Army ride-along, even the hardened criminals on this site.

**digitalvision** · November-04-09, 08:51 PM

SWMAP, it's because it's not the buildings, it's the culture, as you probably have already figured out. Education is at such a low priority for poor families when it should be top - but they're too busy either surviving or dealing with addiction. In many ways, as much as I dislike the school funding of proposal A, it's highlighted a fact - it's not about how much money a school district has, it's about the parents and families within it. You can't buy a commitment by parents that hell or high water their kid is gonna make it.

As to the seeing of Detroit - I know many people who are like this woman. Her reaction is among the most tolerant of what I'm used to hearing.

We are so disconnected from each other, and that's part of our problem. Not only city and suburb, but suburb to suburb, race to race, socio-economic class to class - and people tend to fear what they don't know. Also, it's a helluva lot easier to just not acknowledge the issue than deal with it.

**BVos** · November-04-09, 10:10 PM

I for one am glad that the Time blogger took a ride with the Salvation Army truck. It's about time people start seeing the real Detroit and opening up their eyes to what's really going on here. When you start seeing stuff like this and in large scale this is when barriers of race, suburb/city, education, class, political party, etc. are let down and you start caring about humans and humanity not the predispositions you've gathered through life.

It is Detroit, no matter how many Indian Villages, Palmer Woods, etc. there are. You can't get around it and it would be inhuman to not cover it. This is reality and it's a tragedy that no one seems to care about. Hopefully more people will have their eyes opened up to this stuff, put aside whatever blinders keep them from doing something about it, and get to work.

**Cooper** · November-04-09, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by BVos

I for one am glad that the Time blogger took a ride with the Salvation Army truck. It's about time people start seeing the real Detroit and opening up their eyes to what's really going on here. When you start seeing stuff like this and in large scale this is when barriers of race, suburb/city, education, class, political party, etc. are let down and you start caring about humans and humanity not the predispositions you've gathered through life.

It is Detroit, no matter how many Indian Villages, Palmer Woods, etc. there are. You can't get around it and it would be inhuman to not cover it. This is reality and it's a tragedy that no one seems to care about. Hopefully more people will have their eyes opened up to this stuff, put aside whatever blinders keep them from doing something about it, and get to work.

Well said, BVos. The author may be more sheltered than she ought to be, but she's honest and sharing an authentic experience that more people should have.

DetroitDad · November-04-09, 10:59 PM

Many of my peers growing up in suburbia were strictly forbidden from going anywhere near Detroit. When they came to visit when I first moved here, they were overly surprised that I lived near the same Grand Rive Avenue, Plymouth Road, Seven Mile, or Michigan Avenue that they knew of over in Novi, Canton, or Livonia. Some had no idea we had skyscrapers in Michigan.

There is no doubt in my mind that those individuals would never have been to Detroit, besides going to a game, had it not been for them knowing someone here. In fact, their parents hated it, and one actually refused to pick up his daughter when her car broke down because he wanted to teach her a lesson about going into such a dangerous area.

Ironically, it was in the outer suburbs that his daughter got raped, got a DUI, totalled a car, and became addicted to drugs in. It seems the real problems in our lives, the things we worry about so often, almost always come when and where we least expect them.

Anyways, this article should surprise no one.

**rooms222** · November-05-09, 07:01 AM

Things do seem to be getting worse quickly.....My second favorite Chinese Restaurant is Sun China at McNichols and Telegraph. It is in Detroit, but had customers from both the City and Redford. A year ago I went there and noticed they were putting in bulletproof glass for the first time. Last New Year's Eve, I noticed a security guard at 8 PM, but chalked it up to the holiday. Went last night at 7 and they now need a guard in the parking lot to protect the cars, even on a weekday. This is a restaurant on a busy intersection with frequent visits from police as well......

**mauser** · November-05-09, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by rooms222

Things do seem to be getting worse quickly....

...+1

I agree. Even areas I have defended as " not that bad " in the past are scaring the crap out of me lately. Armed robberies in broad daylight involving 6 or 7 young teens... just nutz. People getting jacked at gas stations in the middle of the day. All my friends have scary stories lately.

- and I should add, they all own weapons with fully legal CCW documentation, and were all carrying when they were robbed. What are you supposed to do against multiple assailants tho ? Hand them your shit, thats what.

A real horror show.

**Zacha341** · November-14-09, 05:33 AM

Yep, I noticed that too. Now for most carry out resturants in the city, I call my order in "before" I get there so as to minimize my risk of hanging around too much, to long or worring about the status of my old "beater" car.

Originally Posted by rooms222

Things do seem to be getting worse quickly.....My second favorite Chinese Restaurant is Sun China at McNichols and Telegraph. It is in Detroit, but had customers from both the City and Redford. A year ago I went there and noticed they were putting in bulletproof glass for the first time. Last New Year's Eve, I noticed a security guard at 8 PM, but chalked it up to the holiday. Went last night at 7 and they now need a guard in the parking lot to protect the cars, even on a weekday. This is a restaurant on a busy intersection with frequent visits from police as well......

**Zacha341** · November-14-09, 05:29 AM

Well, I am a Detroiter born and raised, yet my suburban exposure has been great for years and years of working in the west and northwest suburbs and the "contrast" of lifestyle is getting to be a bit much. Take grocery shopping for example. I am nearly at a point where I can do no food shopping in the city as the quality of product is just horrid in Detroit, just for basics. And were not even going to mention a day trip down to Royal Oak's Hollywood market then back down Woodward to what? Save alot? Don't get me wrong I shop at Save alot in the city and the ones in the burbs, but it's different...

Originally Posted by DetroitDad

Many of my peers growing up in suburbia were strictly forbidden from going anywhere near Detroit. When they came to visit when I first moved here, they were overly surprised that I lived near the same Grand Rive Avenue, Plymouth Road, Seven Mile, or Michigan Avenue that they knew of over in Novi, Canton, or Livonia. Some had no idea we had skyscrapers in Michigan.

There is no doubt in my mind that those individuals would never have been to Detroit, besides going to a game, had it not been for them knowing someone here. In fact, their parents hated it, and one actually refused to pick up his daughter when her car broke down because he wanted to teach her a lesson about going into such a dangerous area.

Ironically, it was in the outer suburbs that his daughter got raped, got a DUI, totalled a car, and became addicted to drugs in. It seems the real problems in our lives, the things we worry about so often, almost always come when and where we least expect them.

Anyways, this article should surprise no one.

**RickBeall** · November-05-09, 09:50 AM

The same is true in Hamtramck. Everyone is sticking it out, but everyone is fortifying and arming their house. At our polling place, 3 of the people manning the booths had their B&E/mugging story to tell. A burglar broke into our house a month ago. We had a burglar alarm which did not seem to deter him, but my wife's screams caused him to flee. There was nothing between her and the burglar except a turn in the hallway.

**RealityCheck** · November-05-09, 12:49 PM

Part 2 of Karen Dybis' ride-along report was posted at Time's Assignment Detroit blog this morning.

This year, the demand for services in certain areas of The Salvation Army's work has gone up as much as 60 percent, Maj. John Turner tells me. The Bed and Bread program consistently sees increases. Part of this is due to a new routing system they have, which put the trucks in more high-need areas. Partly it is due to the area's dramatically high unemployment rate.

. . . Some who ask for meals are homeless . . . Most are unemployed. Others have a house and job – but they need a way to stretch their dollars. Getting a meal here allows them to have enough to cover utilities.

Here's something else the reporter, surely not insular, clueless or "a little bit dimwitted" writes:

I decided not to talk to anyone receiving meals on the record. I spoke to people through my [mobile kitchen] window, and that felt a lot more natural to me. I didn't want to be Reporter Girl. I wanted to be helpful. That's all.

. . . Perhaps getting their words [[and names) would have been more interesting to you, the reader. But I felt like my presence was too glaring. I was just too obvious and the situation was too serious.

. . . The Salvation Army could use a lot more of me. And a lot more of you. There is a Bed and Bread Club. Donate $10 a month and you could feed one child or adult through The Salvation Army for a year.