Come on now, JoAnn Watson???

**East Detroit** · November-08-09, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by English

Actions speak louder than words, and those with stakes in the future of Detroit are different than those who have pulled up stakes.

So, only citizen of Detroit were working the polls and were involved in campaigns in Detroit? The "us vs them" commentary is really getting old, on all fronts.

Again, I feel that we all have stakes in the future of Detroit: citizens of the CoD and suburbanites alike. Monica yelling out "Shrek" on TV or JoAnn obviously lying about her property taxes taken as a representation of Detroit doesn't seem to exclude people in Farmington Hills to those who live in California.

**English** · November-08-09, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

English wrote:

"I could name names, but as the Detroit election threads seem to be filled with disgruntled suburbanites who need to "C" their way out of an A-B conversation that does NOT concern them, I'll refrain."

And:

"I kept getting email from a couple in particular... and no, I won't name names, just because people are being nasty."

The same stunt, performed twice in a 24-hour period.
How transparent.
Don't cower behind a facade of phony propriety and figure on getting any respect.

Respect? On an Internet forum? Are you kidding me? There are plenty of longtime forumers whom I like and respect. Some of them no longer post here. None of those who live in the suburbs or out of state have been responsible for the debacle that has been the Detroit election threads. I don't know you from Adam and won't lose any sleep over your opinion of me.

No, I won't name names. I wish I would bend over backwards and kiss my own rear end for people who think that any given Detroiter is illiterate and/or undereducated. Why would I provide names of my friends when crazy meddlers who NEVER lived within city limits like to slander people and harass them? It's not my problem if you're too lazy to know some of the most prominent people in Detroit politics and organizing. Everyone who is involved knows the players. Do your own research. Or better yet, get involved.

**maxx** · November-08-09, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by English

It wasn't just Black Detroiters who voted JoAnn Watson back in. Some of my White Detroit activist friends were pushing for her re-election as well.

I could name names, but as the Detroit election threads seem to be filled with disgruntled suburbanites who need to "C" their way out of an A-B conversation that does NOT concern them, I'll refrain.

That's pretty disingenuous to say that what happens in Detroit does not affect the surrounding communities.

**English** · November-08-09, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by East Detroit

So, only citizen of Detroit were working the polls and were involved in campaigns in Detroit? The "us vs them" commentary is really getting old, on all fronts.

You know, my initial election commentary posts on this board on the night of the 3rd were actually positive and upbeat. I didn't like all of the results, but I was so excited about council by districts, a new charter commission, and a council shakeup during the transitions to wards. I've met some wonderful people who did not make it who are pledging to still work towards a better Detroit. I can't wait to see the changes of the next few years, and am very excited about finishing my terminal degree, perhaps working in the city once again, and getting my hands dirty.

The voters of Detroit made huge strides last week. I knew many, many people on the ballot who were successful and not successful not only through volunteering and community organizations, but by going to school with them. There are people in the race with questionable character, and the subject of this thread has a record that could be dissected. But the same voters who BARELY sent Watson back almost made a whistleblower their city council president. Where's the credit given for that? Don't hold your breath at DYes.

**English** · November-08-09, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by maxx

That's pretty disingenuous to say that what happens in Detroit does not affect the surrounding communities.

Then those who live in the surrounding communities who are posting on DYes ought to do something other than complaining on message boards. For the last time, if folks were working in Detroit, they'd know who these people are. The fact that they don't [[and are angry that I won't tell them) speaks volumes.

By the way, where is the concern over the blanket statements being made about Detroiters who voted in historic change? Aspersions being cast on their intelligence, and suchlike? I suppose that's okay.

**English** · November-08-09, 10:40 AM

One final thought on this busy Sunday morning:

It's very interesting that this thread was all about generalities, and then an attack on me, instead of a discussion of JoAnn Watson's record. I opened this thread initially, prepared to have that discussion with you. I've known Watson since I was a teenager, and my mother was appalled she was re-elected. I was prepared to share some stories and commiserate.

Instead, I open the thread and read in the first 10 posts the following about Watson:

"...on top of that she a race-divider and unprofessional"
"a "waste of a LOT of space at the council"
"Maybe coming in dead last will temper her racist outbursts."
"Her sinful attitudes will not help lift Detroit out of the hole it is in"
"Her bigotry taints the council already."

And the following about Detroiters:

"It is sad when people vote so blindly or vote for someone to maybe get back at others."
"You guys are talking about Detroit. Why act surprised?"
"Don't expect too much from Detroit and you won't be disappointed."

And so on. Then there was Sumas' wonderful post, and Ravine's snarky reply to someone who is a thoughtful Detroit voter.

My quick reply was addressing both strands of discussion. In response to Watson's racism, I pointed out that there were White Detroiters who were actively supporting Watson, and that I received emails from them. In response to the aspersions cast on Detroit voters, I said in my beautiful local vernacular that well, it really is none of the business of the suburban naysayers.

It isn't as any of you were having a substantive debate about Watson's record or her policies when I posted. This thread, like so many others, has degenerated into personal attacks, and I'm racing out of the door for a busy Sunday with church, meetings, work, and volunteering. Enjoy this beautiful day, peace and blessings to the supporters of Detroit, and to the rest, "a pox on your houses".

DetroitDad · November-08-09, 11:54 AM

Don't hate. As you walk through the valley of the shadowdow of death, you must focus on the positive and your ego to see it through.

Just don't hate nothin'

Ravine · November-08-09, 01:08 PM

English, when you get to church, don't forget to brag to everybody about how one of the last things you did, before leaving for church, was to throw poxes onto folks' houses [[leaving crumbs much too small for the other Who's mouses.)

Beautiful local vernacular. Right.

**East Detroit** · November-08-09, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by English

It's very interesting that this thread was all about generalities, and then an attack on me, instead of a discussion of JoAnn Watson's record.
...

This thread, like so many others, has degenerated into personal attacks, and I'm racing out of the door for a busy Sunday with church, meetings, work, and volunteering. Enjoy this beautiful day, peace and blessings to the supporters of Detroit, and to the rest, "a pox on your houses".

Actually, English, I went back and looked at this thread post-by-post and the first person who turned it into posters vs posters [[albeit with a lame indirect bashing) was you. The previous were about Watson and Detroit citizens in general.

Obviously, you have gotten into it with other posters in other threads and brought that into this one with cutesy remarks, lecturing from the City of Detroit sermon mount [[even though you don't live here) and then another final volley.

So, sadly, you reaped what you sowed and dragged others in with you.

In my beautiful Eastside vernacular: check yo self.

Ravine · November-08-09, 02:03 PM

What it is [[to use my beautiful local vernacular) is that English hopped into this thread and talked a whole lotta shit, got called out on it, and now she has to re-group by writing numerous posts in the effort to rationalize her earlier yammerings and-- once again, with the schoolgirl behavior-- make sure she gets the last word in and comes off looking superior, even if in her eyes only.

**choquant** · November-08-09, 03:16 PM

I understand what English is saying. Obviously it is fine to be disappointed that someone you do not like [[and in my opinion, with good reason) got elected. It is kind of hypocritical, however, to start off saying that Watson is a racist, and then use thinly veiled racist language yourself. Even those of you who do not intend anything racial when you disparage "Detroiters'" intelligence must surely recognize that that is coded language for "stupid black people," used by people who don't want to come across as overtly racist.

Anyway, English is right. It is disappointing that Watson was reelected, but there really is so much to be happy about regarding the results of this election that to focus on one bad spot seems a bit disingenuous.

Ravine · November-08-09, 03:40 PM

Choquant, when I say "Detroiters," it is not code for anything. It means, "citizens of Detroit," and that is the only thing it means, got it?
If anyone reads it as being code, that may say more about them than it says about me.
I keep seeing "disingenuous" being used in sentences where its positioning suggests a certain lack of familiarity with its meaning.

DetroitDad · November-08-09, 05:38 PM

From what I'm seeing, many a Detroiter does not even bother to vote anymore. They think they are all choosing from one of a few crooks. What was the turnout 28%?

Ravine · November-08-09, 07:03 PM

I don't have the answer to that specific question handy, DetroitDad, but that post was a considerable improvement over your previous entry on this thread. Between the spelling and the general tone, you sounded like a drunk masquerading as a priest.

Ravine · November-08-09, 07:04 PM

Not that there is anything truly unusual about a drunk masquerading as a priest, of course.

**sumas** · November-08-09, 07:57 PM

English, I too, re-read this thread. I believe you to be sincere and caring. Everyone who posts here must have some level of interest in the citys future. It is easy to be misunderstood in posts. I have been attacked for posts made in the past. I have also been rude to others . Perhaps I do not express myself as well as I could. Sometimes I have unpopular ideas. This forum is supposed to provide a vehicle for an exchange of ideas.

I left the city for 14 years due to school issues. Other than that I have been a life long Detroiter. Even when living in the burbs I racked up 1000's of volunteer hours yearly for the east side of Detroit.

Area non profits have carried the burden of helping neighborhoods for too long. I can not wait for district representation. Our new council looks promising. Just sorry Joanne made the cut.

Stosh · November-08-09, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Not that there is anything truly unusual about a drunk masquerading as a priest, of course.

I've seen priests masquerading as drunks as well. Funny how they enjoy discussing the more interesting confessional topics in a public place, loudly, when plowed to the hilt.

**gnome** · November-08-09, 08:33 PM

...plowed to the hilt

A poor choice of words when discussing priests, don't ya think?

Stosh · November-08-09, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

A poor choice of words when discussing priests, don't ya think?

Now that's funny. Good catch!

**Det_ard** · November-08-09, 10:18 PM

In response to Watson's racism, I pointed out that there were White Detroiters who were actively supporting Watson, and that I received emails from them.

Are you suggesting that Watson can't be or isn't racist because some white Detroiters supported her? That doesn't necessarily follow. The white supporters may agree with her social agenda and not care or recognize her racism.

I don't follow your logic vis-a-vis Watson, racism and white supporters.

**East Detroit** · November-08-09, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitDad

From what I'm seeing, many a Detroiter does not even bother to vote anymore. They think they are all choosing from one of a few crooks. What was the turnout 28%?

Oakland County: 17.88% voter turnout

http://results.enr.clarityelections....n/summary.html

Macomb County: 16.1 % voter turnout

http://www.newsroomsolutions.com/m4/voterturnout.html

Washtenaw County: 22.38% voter turnout

http://electionresults.ewashtenaw.or...ivereport.html

Detroit: 22.7% voter turnout

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21500004/detail.html

DetroitDad · November-09-09, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by Ravine

Not that there is anything truly unusual about a drunk masquerading as a priest, of course.

Yeah.... actually, my daughter was at Grandmas for the night, and the wife and I went out for a few drinks. We didn't drink that much, but it's been a long time... heh. I think they hit us harder than we expected. It was a nice night out though. Anyway, I apologize for my Shenanigans on DYES last night.

**Gistok** · November-09-09, 01:23 AM

QUOTE: "DYes wasn't this silly even back in 2005, when it was warranted."

Wow!! Long term memory loss....

DYES was REALLY polarized back in 2005... and not only for the mayoral race... but for the mayoral primary... where we had a few "starry eyed" posters here who had met Sharon McPhail, and swore that she was the best thing in the world for Detroit.

And then there was the ugly veiled racism by some here [[including those just mentioned) who called Freman Hendrix by his German middle name "Helmut"... a veiled reference that somehow he wasn't black enough...

Geeze... anyone who thought the 2005 election discussion on this forum were somehow civil has an accute case of Alzheimers...

**Detroitej72** · November-09-09, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by East Detroit

Oakland County: 17.88% voter turnout

http://results.enr.clarityelections....n/summary.html

Macomb County: 16.1 % voter turnout

http://www.newsroomsolutions.com/m4/voterturnout.html

Washtenaw County: 22.38% voter turnout

http://electionresults.ewashtenaw.or...ivereport.html

Detroit: 22.7% voter turnout

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/21500004/detail.html

True, but those counties didn't have powerful, big time races for mayor or city council.

**East Detroit** · November-09-09, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

True, but those counties didn't have powerful, big time races for mayor or city council.

Sure they did, lots of Mayor and Council and Millage decisions were made. And in fact, Macomb County voted on whether or not to have a County Executive and cut the Board of Commissioners in half.

Sorry to the code speakers. I guess the numbers get in the way sometimes.