Light Rail Funding Hits Possible Snag

**digitalvision** · November-02-09, 03:37 PM

Of course, there's shenanigans in Washington - however, as you read on, part of the issue is yet again, since we can't cooperate as a region, we put ourselves in danger of shooting ourselves in the foot.

However, the crux of the issue THIS TIME is that some folks don't want private dollars to count as matching funds.

Excerpts of article and link below.

"Rep. James Oberstar, D-Minn., opposes language in the bill [[inserted at the behest of Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich.) that would permit the $125 million that privately funded M1 Rail Inc. will spend on a light-rail link between Detroit's Hart Plaza and New Center to be used as local matching funds required for the city's plan to extend the line from the New Center to Eight Mile Road for another estimated $300 million."

"The odds of getting federal money increase if such an authority is in place, versus a single local municipality or group, Hertel said.

â€œIf it's a regional project, it has a much better chance of qualifying for federal dollars,â€ he said, noting that U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood reiterated that to him during LaHood's recent visit to Detroit. "

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...1/311029996/-1

**ghettopalmetto** · November-02-09, 03:46 PM

Oberstar has a point. Why should the federal government put more faith and confidence into a project than the city, region, or state?

**BShea** · November-02-09, 04:11 PM

Oberstar's Oct. 8 letter to the key appropriation committee members from both houses basically said the provision failed to include what amounts to Democratic Party concerns [[Buy American, labor, environmental, minority biz ownership/contracts) -- which is interesting because Levin is a Democrat.

Here is the exact provision in question:
â€œSEC. 166. Hereafter, the local share of the costs of the Woodward Avenue Corridor projects funded under section5309 shall include, at the option of the project sponsor, anyportion of the corridor advanced with 100 percent non-Federal funds.â€

So is this a case of the provision simply needing more language that satisfies all those special interest requirements? Or is there something deeper at work here, some sort of parochial political power play? That is what I'm trying to find out.

**dcmorrison12** · November-02-09, 04:51 PM

I'm not concerned. We are so close to making this a reality - I only see light at the end of the tunnel. This article makes the issue seem much bigger than it truly is.

BShea - Stay away from Hertel - he's a Boob

**Russix** · November-02-09, 05:11 PM

This project is fuct. The most that will come out of this is the privately funded parking shuttle portion. Greed is to blame.

**dcmorrison12** · November-02-09, 06:05 PM

Russix,

you don't know much about the project. I'd recommend keeping your unnecessary negative comments to yourself unless they have facts to back it.

Things are looking really good for Detroit.

And don't listen to Hertel, he's a boob who wishes to be devisive and split the M-1 rail and Woodward Light Rail cooperation.

Hertel - from the very beginning has been doing his darndest to stop DDOT from completing their project

2blocksaway · November-02-09, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by dcmorrison12

Things are looking really good for Detroit.

And don't listen to Hertel, he's a boob who wishes to be devisive and split the M-1 rail and Woodward Light Rail cooperation.

Hertel - from the very beginning has been doing his darndest to stop DDOT from completing their project

So, what fact do you have that back this up?

**dcmorrison12** · November-03-09, 03:40 PM

2blocksaway -

Since you asked. I heard it straight from the mouth of Tim - The project manager for Woodward Light Rail. Over the last two years I've known him, he's said it MULTIPLE times. [[not that's he's a boob, but that he has tried his best to thwart DDOT's efforts)

I say that Hertel is a boob. I had the "privelage" to meet the jerk. The guy wouldn't hear it when I mentioned how great the DDOT project was. He ended up yelling at me in an argument. yea... boob

**Russix** · November-02-09, 07:44 PM

The fact is, we are proceeding with this completely wrong.
Where is the regional transportation authority?
Where is the dedicated public funding source?
Where is there any real regional cooperation to get this done?
How are we going to compete against other metros that have all of this for federal tax dollars?
Do you have facts that prove that the Fed is going to give money to “Joint Cooperation Project of M1Rail & DTOGS” over the MTA or the CTA?
So unless something changes with the current conditions for us, I’d like to restate my previous statement:
“This project is fuct. The most that will come out of this is the privately funded parking shuttle portion. Greed is to blame”

How to lose federal transit funding [[again)
http://www.freep.com/article/20091015/OPINION01/910150420//

**Tig3rzhark** · November-02-09, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Russix

The fact is, we are proceeding with this completely wrong.
Where is the regional transportation authority?
Where is the dedicated public funding source?
Where is there any real regional cooperation to get this done?
How are we going to compete against other metros that have all of this for federal tax dollars?
Do you have facts that prove that the Fed is going to give money to “Joint Cooperation Project of M1Rail & DTOGS” over the MTA or the CTA?
So unless something changes with the current conditions for us, I’d like to restate my previous statement:
“This project is fuct. The most that will come out of this is the privately funded parking shuttle portion. Greed is to blame”

How to lose federal transit funding [[again)
http://www.freep.com/article/20091015/OPINION01/910150420//

I would love to be optimistic, but as a realist, I would have to agree with Russix.

The history of city-suburb relations have been poor at best, and even with the current mayor, it hasn't improved at all.

You got people in the city afraid of a "takeover" of Detroit and the forceful removal of non-whites, along with the budget cuts in transportation , by our current mayor.

Then you still have those in the suburbs that want nothing more but to keep "undesirables" out of their town. An example of this is the ability of any community to opt out of the SMART system.

Having a Kilpatrick on the Transportation subcommittee doesn't look well, either.

It is truly going to take a full change from all parts of the political spectrum in order for light rail, and a regional transit authority to succeed here.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-02-09, 08:28 PM

I have to agree with Russix. No matter how good the intentions, or how good the proposal, this project doesn't stand a snowball's chance in Hell of receiving federal funding unless a dedicated local source of funding for operations is in place.

**stasu1213** · November-02-09, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by Tig3rzhark

I would love to be optimistic, but as a realist, I would have to agree with Russix.

The history of city-suburb relations have been poor at best, and even with the current mayor, it hasn't improved at all.

You got people in the city afraid of a "takeover" of Detroit and the forceful removal of non-whites, along with the budget cuts in transportation , by our current mayor.

Then you still have those in the suburbs that want nothing more but to keep "undesirables" out of their town. An example of this is the ability of any community to opt out of the SMART system.

Having a Kilpatrick on the Transportation subcommittee doesn't look well, either.

It is truly going to take a full change from all parts of the political spectrum in order for light rail, and a regional transit authority to succeed here.

I am telling you guys that I will believe it when I see it. Kilpatrick was getting his palms greased as far as him sitting on the board. Probably by GM to keep this project on the shelf. As long as Detroit remains a heavily union town and so=called car town, we will never see any rail going down woodward or anywhere else.

**dcmorrison12** · November-03-09, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I am telling you guys that I will believe it when I see it. Kilpatrick was getting his palms greased as far as him sitting on the board. Probably by GM to keep this project on the shelf. As long as Detroit remains a heavily union town and so=called car town, we will never see any rail going down woodward or anywhere else.

I'm not sure what you mean? LBP would be the biggest road block to rail - regional rail. LBP has been publicly, vocally and LOUDLY against mass transit. Luckily, he has been going with the flow and allowing the regional plan to progress.

Kilpatrick also was helping with the regional rail. [[there are four members who had to unanimously vote yes on each step of the regional mass transit plan. Members included CoD mayor, LBP, Ficano I believe, and the main rep from Macomb)

Kilpatrick also was a supporter of DTOGS. He had the power to thwart it - It was a Detroit project. But, he allowed it. So, I'm not sure what your comment was except for an opportunity to spread lies and bash the City you seem to loathe and make known that you loathe. Way to extend the already large hatred for the city.

**d.mcc** · November-03-09, 04:14 PM

A shame once again, that actual progress in the region is thwarted again.

**Hypestyles** · November-02-09, 10:11 PM

figures, it'd take someone from Minnesota to derail this, pun intended.. I guess Olberstar is one of these blue-dog types who are just barely Democrats.. ah well..

**ASR89** · November-03-09, 05:14 PM

Regarding funding, once the regional authority is established, wouldn't something like a 1/2 cent - 1 cent sales tax be implimented to fund these mass transit projects? That's what a lot of other regions do. OMG, I'd going to have to pay an extra 20 cents for groceries, 3 cents for a Burger King value meal, etc. I'm going to go broke! </sarcasm>

I personally like the DTOGS plan better. Twenty years from now, I could jump on the Woodward line in Birmingham and go all the way down to New Centre just as fast as travelling by car. But wait, then I have to take Hertel's Turtle plan the rest of the way, stuck in traffic, "curb-side", 20 minutes to get downtown? Lame. That isn't mass transit. That's People Mover II.

As somewhat related news, I've been in contact with Carmine Palombo and been keeping up to date with the public updates regarding the Detroit-AA commuter rail. I know it's a different category all together [[1000 vs 22,000 riders), but that project is moving along just fine. Canadian National and Norfolk Southern & Conrail have agreed on allowing the service that WILL start next October.

**dcmorrison12** · November-03-09, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by ljbad89

Regarding funding, once the regional authority is established, wouldn't something like a 1/2 cent - 1 cent sales tax be implimented to fund these mass transit projects? That's what a lot of other regions do. OMG, I'd going to have to pay an extra 20 cents for groceries, 3 cents for a Burger King value meal, etc. I'm going to go broke! </sarcasm>

I personally like the DTOGS plan better. Twenty years from now, I could jump on the Woodward line in Birmingham and go all the way down to New Centre just as fast as travelling by car. But wait, then I have to take Hertel's Turtle plan the rest of the way, stuck in traffic, "curb-side", 20 minutes to get downtown? Lame. That isn't mass transit. That's People Mover II.

As somewhat related news, I've been in contact with Carmine Palombo and been keeping up to date with the public updates regarding the Detroit-AA commuter rail. I know it's a different category all together [[1000 vs 22,000 riders), but that project is moving along just fine. Canadian National and Norfolk Southern & Conrail have agreed on allowing the service that WILL start next October.

Publicized date is October 25th, 2010. It's a three year demonstration project - not permanent. The demonstration project / CRT line is going to help build the ridership numbers so that SEMCOG can re-apply for the Federal New Starts Grant. They've applied once before, but couldn't proceed due to a lack of demand / weak data.

Hopefully we'll get a permanent plan in place!

**BShea** · November-03-09, 07:15 PM

I feel that this should be settled behind the scenes, and not put into the spotlight.

I disagree entirely with that premise. Especially when we're told a deal is done, and then it turns out not to be at the 11th hour. There are hundreds of millions of tax dollars in play here, and I'm not comfortable letting it play out behind the scenes. The politicians, bureaucrats and functionaries need to know the public spotlight is on them.

If there are politics being played, the public should know. This is OUR money, after all.

Wouldn't you want to know a Minnesota Congressman wants a Michigan provision scrapped, and want to know what's being done to resolve the situation?

It's better for everyone when light is shed on back-room dealings.

crawford · November-05-09, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by ljbad89

Regarding funding, once the regional authority is established, wouldn't something like a 1/2 cent - 1 cent sales tax be implimented to fund these mass transit projects? That's what a lot of other regions do. OMG, I'd going to have to pay an extra 20 cents for groceries, 3 cents for a Burger King value meal, etc. I'm going to go broke! </sarcasm>

The vast majority of Metro Detroit voters will be unwilling to pay more in taxes for something that almost no one will use.
There is no demand or need for a Detroit-Ann Arbor train, and the Woodward Corridor already has more than adequate bus service.

If these transit projects do come to pass, it will only be because they were never put to a public vote.

**ghettopalmetto** · November-06-09, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by crawford

The vast majority of Metro Detroit voters will be unwilling to pay more in taxes for something that almost no one will use.
There is no demand or need for a Detroit-Ann Arbor train, and the Woodward Corridor already has more than adequate bus service.

If these transit projects do come to pass, it will only be because they were never put to a public vote.

If everything were put to a public vote, as you imply should be done, why the fuck do you elect people to represent you in government?

crawford · November-06-09, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

If everything were put to a public vote, as you imply should be done, why the fuck do you elect people to represent you in government?

Um, when did I advocate putting transit to a public vote? I don't.

To repeat, IF transit is put to a public vote, and IF it involves any form of tax increase, it has no chance.

Trainman · November-06-09, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by crawford

Um, when did I advocate putting transit to a public vote? I don't.

To repeat, IF transit is put to a public vote, and IF it involves any form of tax increase, it has no chance.

Oh, Really?

Every single form of tax increase for mass transit has passed since the SMART property tax millage passed in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb County since 1995.

Even the Livonia Opt Out was a tax increase because we now pay more for less and that is a fact and not my opinion.

**dcmorrison12** · November-03-09, 05:15 PM

BShea-

I've got it! The solution to our delema! Interview me and I'll enlighten you with a different perspective. A light at the end of the tunnel, but supported with facts. Give the Crain's readers something a little more.... organic, straight from the Transportation Committee Head of the WSU Student Environmental Action Leaders

**1KielsonDrive** · November-05-09, 01:06 AM

Skipper's Rule #1 is declared.

Trainman · November-05-09, 10:16 PM

The $2 Billion dollar NEW freeway lanes which will add 25 miles of new lanes and service drives will make traffic less congested and then the bues will move quicker and get stuck in traffic less and also by fixing roads SMART and DDOT will spend less on repairs. Then the buses will fill up and then we can pass a sales tax so tourists will pay and then people will take the bus to the train station and voila, the Detroit to AA and Woodward light rail will work.

Or, should we vote NO next August 2010 to stop the massive NEW freeways from being built in 2011?