Next August 2010, your vote of NO is needed to stop freeway expansions in Detroit

[Trainman]

http://detnews.com/article/20091030/...-fuel-revenues

It is the loss of funding from the Michigan Department of Transportation that caused the loss of the large SMART buses in Livonia in November 2006

Large freeway expansions are planned to start in 2011 at a cost of $2 Billion and more with the exact same money that used to pay for both SMART and DDOT. It is not Bing that is causing the DDOT reductions but instead the loss of fuel tax revenue sharing and the lack of industry support from companies such as Wal-Mart in Livonia.

Now, is the time for you posters to take action and not after August 2010 as it is very likely that the SMART tax will pass in all three counties.

Then the bulldozers will come, more cuts in state revenue are planned and more bus service reductions unless we once again vote in higher local taxes. And more promises for federal transit grants. But it will be too late because we once again passed the SMART tax.

See more people move out of Detroit.

See Livonia and other inner ring suburbs turn into ghettos.

It’s simple to vote NO and stop the large freeways but maybe it is the large freeways most of us want?

Maybe the bus drivers in Detroit can get bulldozer driving jobs to expand northern Oakland county and other wealthy areas that can afford to pay high property taxes to pay for the once federally and state funded SMART and DDOT public bus systems.

We now have a chance to stop the fuel tax cuts but soon it will be too late if we don’t act fast and get our elected officials to fight the Michigan Department of Transportation and SEMCOG to stop urban decay and the destruction of our farmlands and wetlands with NEW large freeways.

Learn all the facts in Trainman's... save the... in DETROIT LINKS

[Gistok]

Just another Trainman weak analogy of his obsessive compulsiveness for SMART.

The link is nothing more than an opinion piece for redistribution of EXISTING highway dollars... period.

Livonia opted out of SMART of their own free will. If they turn into a ghetto because of it... that's their problem...

[Stosh]

The transit equivalent of BSX.

[tahleel]

What's wrong with expanding congested freeways? :shrug:

-Tahleel

[313WX]

What's wrong with expanding congested freeways? :shrug:

-Tahleel

When your region has a declining population AND an unemployment rate of 15 - 25%, there's a big problem with expanding the road system. I, for one, DO NOT want my taxes being wasted on useless road infrastructure [[like Grand River).

If anything, one could argue we need to decrease the width of some streets [[rather than increase them).

[DetroitDad]

When your region has a declining population AND an unemployment rate of 15 - 25%, there's a big problem with expanding the road system. I, for one, DO NOT want my taxes being wasted on useless road infrastructure [[like Grand River).

If anything, one could argue we need to decrease the width of some streets [[rather than increase them).

Amen Reverend!

Expanding our road system is the single stupidest thing we as a society could choose to do at this point and time, and the type of backwards thinking that makes young families like mine leave this state in droves.

[rb336]

What's wrong with expanding congested freeways? :shrug:

-Tahleel

here is some history

"let's build an 8-lane freeway on the west side to ease congestion"
result -- an 8-lane parking lot

"let's build a conector freeway between 96, the lodge on the west, and 94 on the east side"

result -- a many-mile long parking lot

remember the problems with land acquisition for 696? expect to triple the cost estimate for widening 75

[ghettopalmetto]

here is some history

"let's build an 8-lane freeway on the west side to ease congestion"
result -- an 8-lane parking lot

"let's build a conector freeway between 96, the lodge on the west, and 94 on the east side"

result -- a many-mile long parking lot

remember the problems with land acquisition for 696? expect to triple the cost estimate for widening 75

Oh, come on. How do you expect Detroit to compete with the likes of Atlanta [[16 lanes on the Downtown Connector) or Toronto [[20 lanes on the 401) if they don't keep widening the freeways?

[Trainman]

Just another Trainman weak analogy if his obsessive compulsiveness for SMART.

The link is nothing more than an opinion piece for redistribution of EXISTING highway dollars... period.

... and Livonia opted out of SMART of their own free will. If they turn into a ghetto because of it... that's their problem...

The cities of Detroit, Westland, Dearborn Heights, Farmington and Redford TWP all saw drastic cuts in pubic bus service. Did they too vote for these bus service reductions?

The Livonia vote was rigged to get the people to believe that state funding is no longer needed to pay for the large buses. This is exactly why our state has lost federal funding for mass transit.

Livonia would not have opted out if it were not for the false propagandas and hype from transit tax advocates at our city hall and state officials who refuse to fight for our city in Lansing. Yes, they have names and they know who they are.

Someday, Detroit and southeast Michigan will get decent affordable public bus and rail service because good mass transit is essential for large cities such as Detroit to attract good jobs and increase residents to pay for local taxes. But, unfortunately this will not happen soon because of people like you who won’t fight for decent industry support or federal and state funds by voting NO next August 2010 when we have the chance to do what is best for everyone.

The best choice is clearly NO when you know the real facts and not opinions. This will not harm SMART because all funding for the handicapped, low income and elderly are fully protected under federal laws for transportation funding.

Vote YES for the $2 Billion NEW freeways for Vote NO to stop this total waste of limited tax dollars that will destroy our state unless we first pay for good cost effective public bus service in our large cities and inner suburbs such as Livonia. The newspaper stories of people losing bus service without your YES vote is just simply not true.

See the section titled The Civil Rights Act of 1964. It is against the law to take away existing bus service and see the many other sections in my complete website in DETROIT LINKS.

[Todd_Scott]

That proposal made by the Detroit News would not have any affect on MDOT freeways. It would affect how much money cities, villages, and counties get for their roads. The flaw with the Detroit News is they failed to consider how this would reward sprawl while also discouraging road diets. Under their proposal, cities like Detroit would lose money if they right-sized their roads.

[Trainman]

That proposal made by the Detroit News would not have any affect on MDOT freeways. It would affect how much money cities, villages, and counties get for their roads. The flaw with the Detroit News is they failed to consider how this would reward sprawl while also discouraging road diets. Under their proposal, cities like Detroit would lose money if they right-sized their roads.

You are right, but imagine if everyone voted NO next August 2010 to defeat the SEMCOG plans that they do not want you to know about. The links were removed from their website because of $400 Million set aside to match approved federal grants. I have them on my website to get the public to vote NO next August 2010

If the SMART tax failed, then MDOT would have to use the planned matching grants to pay for public bus service instead of expanding freeways. This would not likely stop MDOT and SEMCOG from expanding freeways but would slow them down and help stop these from ever getting built. These projects should have never been approved but they were despite strong public protests about ten years ago.

I am very serious about going after the SEMCOG plans of wasting our tax dollars of greatly expanding I-75 from 8 mile road to M-59 and expanding I-94 from three to four lanes with new service drives. These plans are very real, off the shelf and approved by the federal government for funding.

Only your vote of NO next August 2010 can or will work to stop these monster projects that southeast Michigan’s taxpayers should not be forced to pay for with more public bus service reductions and tax increases at the time of this posting.

Please vote NO to fully restore all funding to SMART or challenge my findings in my website, if you can.

[Retroit]

Trainman, could you please post a copy of that ballot proposal?

[Trainman]

Trainman, could you please post a copy of that ballot proposal?

My website in DETROIT LINKS on the DetroitYes website explains everything there is to know next August 2010 to understand exactly what your vote means.

Voting NO will not shut down SMART, or mean less funding or hurt the handicapped, low income or the elderly in any way. In addition, voting NO will not lower your property tax or cause any loss of jobs at SMART

The fact is that if this tax is defeated that the Michigan Department of Transportation will be required to pay the full cost of what your property tax does not pay including wages for transit workers and operating costs.

The majority vote of NO will mean that the $400 Million set aside for matching federal grants to build $2 Billion NEW freeway lanes will have to be used to help both DDOT and SMART which will delay the SEMCOG regional transportation plans of bulldozing down the city of Detroit which if acted upon will destroy farmlands with more Wal-Marts, cause more urban decay and higher local taxes as more people move further away from Detroit and the inner suburbs.

After August 2010, it will be too late to defeat the large monster ugly freeway expansions if the SMART tax passes because construction starts in 2011. It’s all explained in my website. It’s time to stop talking and take action to stop the federal and state cuts to our large cities like Detroit by not just voting NO next August 2010 but to support my website and make it well known and let SMART know about it.

It’s time to vote NO and say HELL NO to SEMCOG and SMART, if top transit officials do not join my fight by supporting Operation Bring Back SMART to Livonia and southeast Michigan using state CTF money.

Mass transit only works when it is convenient and easy to use compared to driving and this will never happen if the SEMCOG plans do not go back on the shelf and stay there permanently. Your NO vote is essential next August 2010 to make this happen

[Retroit]

Trainman, when I clicked on the link in your website labeled "*Click Here - Ballot Proposal Language", I was directed to the following site:

http://~~~~~~~~~~~~~~.tripod.com/Sma...otLanguage.pdf

[[For some reason, the website will not print properly. The ~~~~~ should say "save the fuel tax" without spaces between the words.)

That link provided the following message: "Sorry, but the page or the file that you're looking for is not here."

So, I will ask again: Please post a copy of the ballot proposal here on this thread.

[Danny]

You are right, but imagine if everyone voted NO next August 2010 to defeat the SEMCOG plans that they do not want you to know about. The links were removed from their website because of $400 Million set aside to match approved federal grants. I have them on my website to get the public to vote NO next August 2010

If the SMART tax failed, then MDOT would have to use the planned matching grants to pay for public bus service instead of expanding freeways. This would not likely stop MDOT and SEMCOG from expanding freeways but would slow them down and help stop these from ever getting built. These projects should have never been approved but they were despite strong public protests about ten years ago.

I am very serious about going after the SEMCOG plans of wasting our tax dollars of greatly expanding I-75 from 8 mile road to M-59 and expanding I-94 from three to four lanes with new service drives. These plans are very real, off the shelf and approved by the federal government for funding.

Only your vote of NO next August 2010 can or will work to stop these monster projects that southeast Michigan’s taxpayers should not be forced to pay for with more public bus service reductions and tax increases at the time of this posting.

Please vote NO to fully restore all funding to SMART or challenge my findings in my website, if you can.

Anyone who thinks that we can get a good decent mass transit system without fighting for federal, state and industry support in the form of decent paying jobs with benefits is really stupid and not very SMART

The vote next August 2010 is nothing but a charity donation to get grandma to the doctor's office using your property tax dollars with state funding being shifted to roads and only the promise of improved transportation choices and federal transit grants. If that is what you want then vote YES. It makes no difference to me because the car has won and the bus has lost.

The cities of Detroit, Westland, Dearborn Heights, Farmington and Redford TWP all saw drastic cuts in pubic bus service. Did they too vote for these bus service reductions?

The Livonia vote was rigged to get the people to believe that state funding is no longer needed to pay for the large buses. This is exactly why our state has lost federal funding for mass transit.

Livonia would not have opted out if it were not for the false propagandas and hype from transit tax advocates at our city hall and state officials who refuse to fight for our city in Lansing. Yes, they have names and they know who they are.

Someday, Detroit and southeast Michigan will get decent affordable public bus and rail service because good mass transit is essential for large cities such as Detroit to attract good jobs and increase residents to pay for local taxes. But, unfortunately this will not happen soon because of people like you who won’t fight for decent industry support or federal and state funds by voting NO next August 2010 when we have the chance to do what is best for everyone.

The best choice is clearly NO when you know the real facts and not opinions. This will not harm SMART because all funding for the handicapped, low income and elderly are fully protected under federal laws for transportation funding.

Vote YES for the $2 Billion NEW freeways for Vote NO to stop this total waste of limited tax dollars that will destroy our state unless we first pay for good cost effective public bus service in our large cities and inner suburbs such as Livonia. The newspaper stories of people losing bus service without your YES vote is just simply not true.

See the section titled The Civil Rights Act of 1964. It is against the law to take away existing bus service and see the many other sections in my complete website in DETROIT LINKS.

The game is over and in 2011 the final score will be etched in concrete. Unless YOU support my website of Trainmans's Save... in DETROIT LINKS linked in DetroitYES

Trainman, Where is this section for public transit under the Civil Rights Act of 1964? I looked into it and it says degregation for public bussing and no discrimination for public bussing.


Wait a minute, last time I've voted for the 2007 SMART BUS MILLAGE there no other plans for a freeway expansion. Your reports from whatever sorces remains NON SEQUITUR! It just adding city tax dollars to keep the SMART bus system going.

[Trainman]

Trainman, Where is this section for public transit under the Civil Rights Act of 1964? I looked into it and it says degregation for public bussing and no discrimination for public bussing.


Wait a minute, last time I've voted for the 2007 SMART BUS MILLAGE there no other plans for a freeway expansion. Your reports from whatever sorces remains NON SEQUITUR! It just adding city tax dollars to keep the SMART bus system going.[/quote]

The SMART renewal is a TAX SHIFT which means that property taxes REPLACE the state tax on fuel.

This title declares it to be the policy of the United States that discrimination on the ground of race, color, or national origin shall not occur in connection with programs and activities receiving Federal financial assistance and authorizes and directs the appropriate Federal departments and agencies to take action to carry out this policy. This title is not intended to apply to foreign assistance programs.

Section 601 -- This section states the general principle that no person in the United States shall be excluded from participation in or otherwise discriminated against on the ground of race, color, or national origin under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.

State funds that were once used for the Livonia public buses are now planned to match federal grants to expand freeways. This resulted in the permanent closing of handicapped facilities, thus is against race, color and national origin.

That is why your property taxes will not be lowered if you vote NO for the handicapped, low income and the elderly. Our state did indeed shut down handicapped faciliites that are no longer available, thus SMART lost $14 Million per year in Federal Transit grants for southeast Michgian and YOU DANNY agree to this becuause you will not protest this but instead vote YES. why?

The Michigan Department of Transportation shut down large public bus service to raise funds for large freeways because that is what Livonia agreed on and what the vast majority will agree on if the SMART tax passes again next 2010. The city of Livonia was indeed required to pay for all bus passengers based on income and need. According to the government that YOU support with your YES vote, the loss of the large buses in Livonia had no adverse effect on the general public as they were largely empty and those who relied on them were provided with alternative bus service as required by law.

YES Danny, you agreed on even more cuts since November 2006 where many thousands of people lost bus service in addition to those who work and/or live in Livonia. This is what you will get unless you support my website OR vote in much higher local or county taxes for SMART and DDOT or if they lower the per passenger costs.

Or, if industry pays for the needs of all workers including a decent wage, health benefits and transportation including bus service out the kindness of their big hearts. And this will happen when HELL freezes over.

[RO_Resident]

That proposal made by the Detroit News would not have any affect on MDOT freeways. It would affect how much money cities, villages, and counties get for their roads. The flaw with the Detroit News is they failed to consider how this would reward sprawl while also discouraging road diets. Under their proposal, cities like Detroit would lose money if they right-sized their roads.

From what I read, MDOT would be the big winner. By definition, their roads are ones that are assumed to carry a large amount of traffic. A handful of urban counties and few larger cities would also benefit from the Detroit News' proposal.

So, by my math, you have roughly 20 to 25 entities that benefit from this proposal. The problem is getting the other 590 Act 51 agencies to go along with the plan.

[Jimaz]

From yesterday's Detroit News: Nine Mile bridge is longer

MDOT extends span before I-75's anticipated widening..."The longer bridge would be needed whenever the freeway is widened from Eight Mile to M-59," [MDOT spokesman Rob Morosi] said. "It's fiscally more responsible to put in a larger bridge now rather than coming back to do it years from now."

I don't have a horse in this race. It just seemed relevant to the discussion.

[Trainman]

From yesterday's Detroit News: Nine Mile bridge is longerI don't have a horse in this race. It just seemed relevant to the discussion.

Your post is extremely relevant here, thanks for posting

The 2 Billion Freeway dollar expansions are in concrete and fully approved by the Federal Transportation Administration. The state money used to match federal grants is the exact same money that used to pay for SMART.

It’s too late to protest them but we can still defeat tax measures that support and pay for these monsters, like the SMART property tax renewal next August 2010

Your horse in this race to tell top SMART officials to support my cause to stop the I-75 expansion by writing to them or you will vote NO I make this easy to do in my website under DETROIT LINKS listed on DetroitYES

[Rideron]

Expanding Detroit freeways is like planning a new paint job for the Titanic.

[Todd_Scott]

Expanding Detroit freeways is like planning a new paint job for the Titanic.

I think expanding Detroit freeways is more like building a bigger iceberg.

[Lorax]

In a region that is losing population, why any road expansions are even considered smacks of corruption/graft.

Wonder which contracting companies have paid the most to lobby this effort?

How about fixing the hundreds of pothole choked entrance/exit ramps first?

Evergreen road in Southfield is nothing more than a series of patches upon patches. I think some stimulus monies are in line for repaving that one.

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Tiatanic, most appropriate.