Kilpatrick and Karmanos?

**Locke09** · October-30-09, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by Buy American

thug KK and his Momma played the race card on many occasions...look at the people who helped him during this "revolutionary" time the most.

The same group of "responsible" businessmen who whipped out their checkbooks and helped get him re-elected when the polls showed him about to lose. The same group that told the masses that Kilpatrick was good for the City [[they meant good for the business community) and there was no one to take his place. They propped him up so it was only fitting that they take their checkbooks out one more time and get him out of here.

**Searay215** · October-30-09, 02:32 PM

pffft

How do you "not know" if your spouse has a job or not?

Thats what happens when your Little head is all over Texas looking for your next score or is that whore?

**babeeblumer** · October-31-09, 07:42 AM

Pete's "statement" regarding his "generosity" just may have set him up for some complex legal issues, from what retroit's post #19 over in Kwame's Hearing indicates. PK seems to be living quite a fantasy life- thinks he's untouchable in his many indiscretions in marriage, business and politics.

**Big Dog** · October-31-09, 08:24 PM

It would not surprise me if Penske, Karmanos and the gang are paying his rent too. He must have some very incriminating stuff on them.

**stasu1213** · November-01-09, 08:08 AM

I think that KK had masterfully covered his butt. By saying that it was a loan the four gentlemen had given him KK shields himself and the four men against any charges of bribery. He had also protected his wife by saying that he is the one on trial and not her. Whatever money she had been given in the past doesn't has anything to do with him. Very clever. I think that he, Penske, Karmanos, Dilber, Moroun, and the other guy will walk away from this untouched.

Retroit · November-01-09, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I think that KK had masterfully covered his butt. By saying that it was a loan the four gentlemen had given him KK shields himself and the four men against any charges of bribery. He had also protected his wife by saying that he is the one on trial and not her. Whatever money she had been given in the past doesn't has anything to do with him. Very clever. I think that he, Penske, Karmanos, Dilber, Moroun, and the other guy will walk away from this untouched.

How so? The loan itself was the bribe. A bribe can consist of "anything of value", so even a non-monetary object can be considered a bribe. The fact that it may [[or may not, as is the case with Kwame apparently) be paid back does not diminish its value. The value to Kwame was that it provided him with a financial incentive and means to quit his job. If you can not afford to buy a home, but I give you a loan which enables you to do so, that loan is a "thing of value" to you.

Not necessarily so. It doesn't matter if it was given to the family dog. If the money was given to whomever with the intention of influencing Kwame into resigning, it would most certainly be a bribe.

**Zacha341** · November-01-09, 04:52 PM

Good points, his "bold profile" lavish lifestyle make him less likely to be given symphathy for, and more incredulous that he want to pay so very little back.... if anything.

Originally Posted by Buy American

thug KK will always be arrogant and believe that he is above any laws of the land. He thinks that the judge will accept these "I don't knows" and be lenient...I don't think so. His comments about "harrassment" from the system in Detroit...his comment about going through a "revolutionary" change in his life over the past year...the "I don't know if my wife works", "I don't know who pays the rent", "I don't know how much the rent is",...and the best one during the interview with Steve Wilson at the airport where he tells Steve he has been "anointed by God"...is a total load of worthless fodder. Does he truly think that we should be sympathtic towards him? He is a snake oil salesman and I'm sure that Judge Groner will see through all the s**t thug KK is spewing and make him pay what he owes. thug KK needs to come down to reality and get rid of this expensive, lavish home he and his family are living in...give up both of those expensive cars and get a smaller car...quit spending like it's going out of style, then he can pay Detroit. If this were you or I there would be no question, no courtroom drama, no expensive lawyers....our wages would be garnisheed and we'd be living under a bridge.

**Zacha341** · November-01-09, 04:55 PM

Yeah get "out of dodge money" is one thing, but ongoing would suggest something else. And Kilpatrick not remorseful or contrite about ANYTHING would be a formidable figure to those engaged in such. They know he'd take them all down with him if needed. No doubt!

I wonder how he would really far in Texas where he not still shielded via the Detroit influence [[flexible high salary job, finances etc). Broad shoulders, swagger, "tude" and all... the politics and power brokering there is not the same as the D! or Michigan......

Originally Posted by Big Dog

It would not surprise me if Penske, Karmanos and the gang are paying his rent too. He must have some very incriminating stuff on them.

**stasu1213** · November-01-09, 06:30 PM

Would anyone get into trouble for this? Kwame has gone back to Texas. The four men had went back to tending their own businesses. I don't think anything will come out of this. If so, why would the courts allow KK to go back to Texas?

**313WX** · November-01-09, 08:14 PM

It's all an inside job.

You really don't think Karmanos, Gilbert and Penske would have invested as much in the city without Kwame giving them some type of leverage, did you?

They're just holding up their end of the bargain I suppose...

Retroit · November-01-09, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Would anyone get into trouble for this? Kwame has gone back to Texas. The four men had went back to tending their own businesses. I don't think anything will come out of this. If so, why would the courts allow KK to go back to Texas?

The wheels of justice turn slowly. Look how long it took for perjury charges to be brought against Kwame even though everyone knew he lied. I'm sure Kym Worthy will be carefully scrutinizing Kwame's comments on the bench last Thursday. As if their actions were not clear enough, the 4 [[or 5, not sure how Mo'ruin ties in) men self-incriminated themselves by their own comments. No subpoenaing of text messages required! This is being handed to Worthy on a silver platter. Let's see if she is willing to throw the book at 4 or 5 white billionaires with the same vigor as she did with a black thug. That clout could come in handy for future political runs. To put it in perspective, Moronica Conyours got in trouble for only $6000 in bribe money; these guys averaged $60,000 apiece!

**babeeblumer** · November-01-09, 11:00 PM

You are so wise, Retroit.
Have to wonder just what motivates a guy like PK to lay off 250 working class people, hire the likes of KK at a $ 20,000 per month rate of pay and then along with a few buddies throw in at least 60 thousand in pocket change for Kilpatrickâ€™s kids to have ice cream money for the summer.
â€œTogether with other concerned citizens, I made a personal loan to former Mayor Kilpatrick last year so that we could encourage him to resign. We were concerned about the city, and we wanted to help care for his family until he could get back on his feet. At this time the loan remains outstanding.â€
Think heâ€™s caring for the families of those laid off workers? The City of Detroit can certainly relate to outstanding debt owed by KK.
And then thereâ€™s the Dan Gilbert connection- Gilbertâ€™s involved in the Ohio casino initiative with Dennis Archer. Archerâ€™s on the board at Compuware. He served as an ill informed spokesperson some time back, stating that Kilpatrick wouldnâ€™t be given employment by PKâ€™s company, only to have him hired the following week. And donâ€™t forget that Karmanos is Gilbertâ€™s landlord.
Itâ€™s definitely a tangled web of money and influence. Whoâ€™s on first? Abbott and Costello couldnâ€™t keep this straight.

Retroit · November-02-09, 10:58 AM

Here's a random and uncomprehensive list of reasons for bribing Kwame out of office:

The bribing businessmen didn't want further financial harm to their businesses that would result from negative publicity if Kwame were to have continued his mayoralship.
The bribing businessmen didn't want further financial harm to the business climate of the city which their businesses depend on.
As others have suggested, this may have been a payback for favors that Kwame had previously extended.
This bribery money may have been intended to encourage Kwame to keep quite about said favors.
Who is Kwame's Mommy? The bribers would not want to get on her bad side, especially when the contracts are awarded for the governments takeover of health care. This is one of the main objectives of Compuware's Covisint subsidiary [[http://www.covisint.com/). And what job did Karmanos give Kilpatrick? Account representative at Covisint.[[http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...k.1101119.html)
As you mentioned, former mayor Archer is on Compuwares board of directors. It pays to have former politicians on your side. Former politicians pull a lot of weight with current politicians. A history of corruption is no deterrent because they all are corrupt.
This bribery money is not much different from campaign contribution in its effect on politicians [[except for its illegality), to which Karmanos gave over $125,400 last year. [[http://www.campaignmoney.com/politic...s.asp?cycle=08)
The statements they released shortly after Kwame's testimony were intended as a preemptive defense against any accusations of underhanded behavior. As we all know, the cover-up is often worse in public perception than the actual crime. However, if there was nothing to hide, why was it hidden till it was forced out in court?

**ALPOE** · November-02-09, 12:17 PM

The picture is that his mama still has friends who need favors, so a little gift or loan to keep her boy in a life of living large while styling around in that caddy and living in a home larger then the detroit mansion. I think the irs needs to bring in there experts to give a report to the judge and his wify needs to take the stand to clear up his loss of mind.

**babeeblumer** · November-02-09, 07:25 PM

These four are staunch Republicans – their secret financial support was likely intended as an effort to drown the Democrat Kilpatricks as much as it was a life raft for their own business interests.

**stasu1213** · November-02-09, 09:26 PM

Now you see why detroit is in the shape that it is in. KK had been controlled by the big four

**pgn421** · November-04-09, 08:52 PM

You would think KK's friend Bobby Ferguson would have given KK some cash, after all he made about 100 million from KK.

**ejames01** · November-04-09, 09:09 PM

Is this really anyone's business except for Kwame Kilpatrick? He can accept loans from anyone he wants. I don't recall anything about that in this probation conditions.

Blarf · November-04-09, 10:08 PM

They should go through some more text messages. Maybe Kwame and Karmonos were having gay butt sex.

**babeeblumer** · November-04-09, 10:52 PM

This thread started as a discussion of Karmanos’ hiring of KK. Kwame himself enlightened us in recent days as to the fact that Pete [[& Co.) sets easy qualification standards for loans as well as employment. KK seems comfortable accepting money [[and sex) from anyone that offers. There are sometimes consequences for succumbing to “temptation from the devil”.

**keltickate** · November-14-09, 09:13 PM

Karmanos and Kilpatrick: Logical Theory 101

The U.S. government has a $ 19B stimulus for the digitizing of health care records
Covisint makes application software
Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick sits on the influential House Appropriations Commtitee- holders of the pursestrings
Karmanos gives loser son Kwame a high-paying job
Carolyn is grateful
Carolyn direct some big dollars toward Karmanos
Everyone is happy
I'm just sayin'

**babeeblumer** · November-14-09, 11:41 PM

Logical enough...any thoughts on Cox, Gilbert, Penske fitting into the plan?

**davewindsor** · November-15-09, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by babeeblumer

Logical enough...any thoughts on Cox, Gilbert, Penske fitting into the plan?

That's what I was thinking. A little backroom lobbying was going on and his mother is returning favours to everyone who's helping her son, but what's the connection with everyone else? Is Carolyn backing the ambassador bridge or another one of Matty's projects?

**babeeblumer** · November-18-09, 09:18 PM

So now we've had two days of testimony. Does anybody think these 4 benefactors achieved the status of respected multi-millionaires by “forgetting” to draw up promissory notes let alone get signatures on paperwork for “loans”?!
There was TOTAL confidence by these four men that this would be kept secret. Then along came the IRS and FBI. Wonder who/what brought them knocking…think they visited any of the other members of the Financier Four? Maroun & Rakolta at least considered the repercussions, anticipated "getting busted" and regrouped.
As for KK’s earning potential, who in their right mind would want to deal with HIM as the agent representing Covisint wares!! It’s hard to believe he is considered an asset to the Karmanos empire by anyone on the planet, let alone to be setting up a $300,000 deal. Probably has a meeting scheduled with Carlita- to appeal for his allowance so he can start his holiday shopping.