What Ilitch is sitting on

[Lorax]

Thanks Lowell, for supporting my long held belief that any new arena will be built with Woodward frontage- and north of 75.

It only makes sense, since the Ilitches have been accumulating properties in and around the Cass Park area for a while now, and the Masonic announcement only adds to this.

Logic dictates- why would they build an arena on back streets when the visual impact [[and ego boost) of having Woodward frontage as Comerica Park does would be just as easy, perhaps easier, considering there is already so much vacant land there already?

It would be a real nucleus of activity, and while JLA is probably doomed from many angles- design, location, and the fact that Cobo will need this land for expansion- seems a done deal to me.

The Palace is great and all, but we know LBP will have his way and convert it, or the Silverdome into an expo center for Oakland County, should Cobo fail to get it's act together.

[casscorridor]

My two cents--
[[a young prrson from the burbs living, working and going to school in the city of Detroit)

1 -- If the JLA is not renovated, what will happen to the People Mover station? I noticed the PM brings many Wings fans to greektown while I working at Cold Stone [[dont go there, the owners are NOT good people).

2 -- What about the Old Tiger Stadium site? I think that is a great location, ample land for a stadium and parking. Why has no one mentioned this? I also think it would be a good location to bring back the *Detroit* Pistons from Auburn Hill's sprawland. But this is a more distant goal.

3 -- As far as north of the Fisher Fwy vs. South, i see costs and benifits in both. But either way it is going to create yet another superblock, basically creating a wall around downtown made up of Cobo, MGM, freeways, the ren cen, Comerica park and Ford field. Not an urbanists dream at all.

4 -- Connecting Downtown with Midown and other "downtown" neighborhoods is critically important. If we think of Midtown and Downtown as one thing... does it make sense to create more overwhelming physical barriers seperating the two areas? Pehaps the light rail will aid this, as well as the redevelopment of the lower corridor. All the economy arguments are void once the rail goes through... development will likely boom. Midtown/Downtown/New Center is the single most important area to redevelop not only in Detroit but in Michigan as a whole. We have no other large truely urban areas in the state.

[Gistok]

Casscorridor... I think that #2 on your list explains why the residents of Corktown DON'T want a new arena in their neighborhood.

When Tiger Stadium was the ballpark, over decades it caused the demolition of MANY of the homes in the Corktown area, as the land was worth $$$ for parking spots. There were many blighted weed infested empty lots [[empty, except on game days).

Since the Tigers moved to Comerica Park, new infill housing has helped heal many of the neighborhoods gaps in the housing stock. So an arena would be the worst thing for that area.

[buildingsofdetroit]

2 -- What about the Old Tiger Stadium site? I think that is a great location, ample land for a stadium and parking. Why has no one mentioned this? I also think it would be a good location to bring back the *Detroit* Pistons from Auburn Hill's sprawland. But this is a more distant goal.

Couple of reasons I can think of:
1) Ilitch doesn't already own the land around the Tiger Stadium site. He owns almost everything in that part of town, so he can charge fans $25 a car year-round as opposed to just during the summer and football season.
2) The fact that the demo crews had to go out of their way to NOT destroy the field during demo makes it seem like the field would be preserved in any future use.
3) Negative stigma of building on sacred ground.
4) He's going to want his hockey team to play near either his casino or his parking lots or Hockeytown restaurant. He wants fans spending their money on his turf, not in others' shops, etc.
5) It's far more "impressive" to flex his empire's muscles with the Fox, Comerica Park, et al to be concentrated in one area.

[Lorax]

Exactly right. This is why I see the north of 75 solution as most viable, since it will accomplish a couple of things- it can be designed in such a way, hopefully set back from Woodward as Comerica is, and perhaps a collection of semi-connected store fronts could be built in front, facing woodward, with large landscaped plazas linking woodward to the stadium [[or stadia in the case that Comerica could benefit from this treatment as well).

I see another collection of storefronts/restaurants on the rear of the stadium facing Cass Park, enclosing the parkline with facades in keeping with the Masonic and Kresge buildings, and hopefully renovating the old Americana Hotel into a useful building again.

Old Cass Tech could become a parking structure, since the only interesting part of it is the outside, and would keep a large looming concrete box from being built in it's place.

It would have the appearance, if done correctly, of some of Piranesi's ancient views of the Colosseum in Rome, where later generations built up shops and park settings around the old building, which served as a backdrop. In this case, the stadia are new buildings with attendant new structures.

[reddog289]

Lots of good thinking and thoughts on this thread. I personally think that Joe Louis Arena is gonna be part of the "New Cobo" within the next 10 years. I see a new Arena west of the Fox and south of 75, But thats just my opinion. As for the Pistons moving back I don't see that happening, and while the Michigan /Trumbell corner might be a good site. I did talk to one business owner who was glad that the Tigers were leaving. He thought of having a more year round deal, not just the 80 games a year plan.
What ever the deal might be. It don't make sense to build up a land bank for no reason other than to build something.This is one of thouse "Wait and See" things.
While I never saw a Wings game at the Olympia,I love that place. I spent many nights at the Joe.And if I had to rate the four sports venues, The Joe ranks last.
And to steal from another thread, Follow the Money rings a Bell. If you owned a business and could get someone to help build you a new building and can get a better deal then where you are at, you would be a fool not to do it.

[mrrichard]

What Ilitch is sitting on?

His hands until he can get a tax payer financed new red wings stadium.

[buildingsofdetroit]

Exactly right. This is why I see the north of 75 solution as most viable

First, love the Cass Tech parking idea, though I don't know if structurally it could be converted to that purpose. While gutting it would be tough - a la Michigan Theatre without the pomp - it's the best and most viable idea I've seen floated for it [[so long as its infrastructure can hold cars).

Here's another reason I forgot to mention. Remember that Ilitch was rumored to have bought the Hotel Eddystone and Park Ave. Plus, he's invested himself in the Masonic Temple. On top of that, one of my acquaintances, whom I trust, said that he had this friend who owned two homes on Cass just south of Temple. Well, a few years ago he shot someone on his porch who was coming after him or something and then went to jail for a bit before being freed for defending his property. This was a pretty big story if any of you remember it. ANYWAY, this acquaintance told me that he was looking to get away from the 'hood because of this experience and Ilitch bought his homes for more than $200,000 for the pair. Now, those are nice looking homes, but I don't see Ilitch moving into the Corridor anytime soon.

[Fury13]

...the visual impact [[and ego boost) of having Woodward frontage as Comerica Park does...

Actually, Comerica Park's frontage is on Witherell, the ballyard's erroneous address notwithstanding.

[Fury13]

As far as north of the Fisher Fwy vs. South, i see costs and benefits in both. But either way it is going to create yet another superblock, basically creating a wall around downtown ... Not an urbanists dream at all.

Do you really think that Ilitch [[or any other wealthy person with the means to redevelop downtown Detroit) cares about the negative points of creating another superblock? Ilitch and his planning people have suburban mindsets. You will get a big-box configuration surrounded by a vast sea of parking asphalt with the new Pizza Pizza Arena [[wherever it ends up), and you will like it. End of story.

[Lorax]

I thought the Cass Tech parking idea was good too, and since it's built like a brick sh**house, it should be able to hold autos, but an engineering study will have to take place first, naturally.

[detroitsgwenivere]

PizzaPizza arena?! Hilarious.....