What Ilitch is sitting on

[buildingsofdetroit]

You mention placing the stadium next to the GAR- I still don't see how it's a good fit- perhaps hockey stadiums are smaller than I thought. And I don't think the Ilitches own the GAR- not yet anyway!

Ilitch lost his option on the GAR. It's now being pursued by Mindfield USA for its headquarters. Details at: http://www.buildingsofdetroit.com/places/gar

[Lorax]

Wow! Great news about the GAR. It deserves a full renovation.

As far as the Ilitches, don't forget, even at the price he paid for that parcel, what's Ilitch's net worth?

1.5 BILLION dollars. That's 1,500 million bucks. He's #242 on Forbes Magazine list of the 400 wealthiest Americans.

There is nothing he cannot afford to buy or restore in Detroit. And he has the werewithal to borrow what he needs to do it, never touching his own money.

The UA could be restored at the stroke of a pen top to bottom, and it wouldn't dent his net worth.

What I think is lost on many is as much as we love to think of our sports team owners as "one of us" in reality their wealth separates them to such a degree, and I'm not intending this as a slam, but we need to keep perspective here.

I admire anyone who can build such an empire, and largely it has been a good thing for Detroit and Michigan. But realize he can build Olympia anywhere he wants to, and can afford to do it, even if he occasionally overpays for a parcel here and there.

[detroitsgwenivere]

A business owner in Cass Corridor told me that Illitch just bought out the Taxi business on Cass and Clifford for 2 million. They were told that Illitch plans on building the stadium south of the freeway, but wants to obtain the property north of 75 so that he can put in a large scale parking garage and a heated walkway across the freeway [[nice!), and because he wants control over what gets developed around all of this. Buying the property before any big announcements are made makes sense. He gets all the land he wants at bargain prices and protects his investments from "undesirable" places and people, ie: low-income.

The business owners also told me they are gravely concerned about their own situation. They are scared that if they refuse an offer by Illitch that he'll have their business burned down. Apparently this happened to a greek guy's business where Comerica Park went. The guy couldn't even collect on his insurance policy because "someone" called and cancelled it a few days before.

Personally I'm kinda sick of Illitch buying up everything thats worth anything and turning Detroit into his own personal playground. I appreciate his business and everything, but it is NOT WISE for us to give so much control over our major assets to one business or indivdual. Plus, I was really hoping that Cass Corridor would remain, rising from the ashes by the very people who are willing to make it their home and invest in it's turn around, something we Detroiters could all be proud of. But everytime someone tries to buy one of the apartment building down there to rehab, they get stonewalled by red tape and bullshit. We should get more say in the development of our neighborhoods, and people do currently live in the corridor that are active in an attempt to take ownership of their neighborhood. If any of them are reading this, I support you guys all the way.

Buildingsofdetroit, I am offended by your light use of the word GENTRIFICATION. Hundreds of low income people have already been forcibly removed from that area with no affordable housing available to them and their children. The Corridor's NSO, DRMM, and COTS are all full to the brim because they have no other place to go, and I wonder where you think those places and people should be "genrified" to if you think they aren't good enought to be where they are now.

[Gistok]

Detroitsgwenivere, I don't think that the Ilitch clan would succumb to a Mafia style "burn down" of a building. I know of no building in the large stadia footprint that was burned down while Wayne County was using Eminent Domain [[which can't be used any more for building venues) to buy the land for the stadia in the 1990s.

Marion Ilitch [[and thru joint ownerships, her husband) had to pass the state background checks in order for Marion Ilitch to get a casino license back then... so any Ilitch activity that remotely smells illegal would have denied her a license.

The Ilitch's may be milking the system to get public grants and loans, but that's not an illegal activity. However, if someone gets into their way... they can be stubborn and vindictive... in a legal way. When the owner of the Women's Exchange Building along E. Adams went to court [[against the county) to prevent inclusion in the stadia footprint [[for use as a decorative sidewalk!), the building owners won the court decision. However, the Ilitch's got the last laugh [[of sorts) by not even talking with the owners when the building owners needed additional parking spaces for any redevelopment of the Women's Exchange Building.... that is until Red Wing Chris Chelios got involved in redeveloping that site.

I think that the worst that would happen [[as I already mentioned) is that any landowners that were holdouts, and required the Arena site to be adjusted... would be "built around"... so that their land would not be as desirable for any future endeavor.

In the last 3 years there have been many DYES threads that have aerial shots of the west Foxtown area showing both the Joe Louis footprint as fitting in behind the Fox [[north of Adams Ave.). It was even possible to fit them [[tightly) west of Cass into the triangle of land between Cass, Fisher Fwy Service Drive and Grand River. Even the slightly larger footprint of the Palace fits in west Foxtown.

As for being a billionaire and paying any amount to buy up the land... that's what holdout landowners want. They don't want [[as 3WC mentioned) $2+ million for their tiny site... but probably $10 million plus. Just look at the failed riverfront casino land acquisition... just part of the land needed cost $150 million!

The Ilitch's aren't telling anyone about what they plan for the United Artists complex nor what their plans are for the Fine Arts Building facade... for one very good reason... it will only drive the price of holdout land higher than it already is.

[Gistok]

Some posters here think that because Mike Ilitch now controls bookings at Masonic, that he is going to build his arena near there.

The Masonic folks were unhappy with the Nederlander organization for the lack of shows at the Masonic [[ergo fewer dollars for Masonic) And Mike & Marion Ilitch didn't want to see another giant empty hulk overlooking their casino and entertainment empire.

So Mike Ilitch paid the [[what was to him) paltry utility bills of the Masonic, got control of the bookings for the 4,404 seat Masonic Theatre and 1,585 seat Scottish Rite Theatre, and had the Masons stay in the building. This way he got control of the 2 theatres without having to be the owner [[and pay taxes) on a very large tax hog.

Plus he got the added bonus of using Midtown as an alternative site for a new arena, in case west Foxtown didn't pan out. Also, this pits 2 or more sites against each other... thus giving the uber-greedy remaining land owners something to think about.... take the gamble and sell or holdout and end up like the holdout riverfront casino landowners.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Gistok, How are the land owners considered uber-greedy when many of them had rightfully purchased those parcels with the intention of making a living or making a large profit. That's the name of the game, is it not? When Mike Illitch comes knocking at my door and all of my neighbor's doors with an offer to buy, he's looking at doing something that will make him some serious money. I ain't gotta wear a watch and I know what time it is.

And as far as "mafia" style tactics go, it's no secret that Illich Holdings has been suspected of participating in some shady shit to get what they want. I've heard things from DP &D and BS&E about strange "coincidences" and orders from the mayors office over the years to keep mouths shut or else. To me that's as good as the horses mouth, and I don't know who you talk to....... maybe you work for Illitch?

As far as the fire story goes, that's what I was told by someone else. I will take some time to find out more about it and post what I find. I do know this, people with money never get caught holding the lighter or the gascan, they just pay someone else to do it, and I've seen way too much bad shit go down involving city employees and cops to know that they aren't doing this stuff because they have nothing better to do. Someone is footing the bill, so don't tell me that people like Illitch aren't capable of these kinds of acts. I KNOW they are, I've seen it with my own 2 eyes.

Paltry utility bills paid in exchange for control of 2 major city landmarks? That's quite a deal if I may say so. I'm sorry but I don't care if he doesn't like empty hulks overlooking his city, I mean his "empire." Tell that to the hundreds of Corktowners that had to stare at that empty hulk of a stadium for over 10 years while Illitch was given millions of taxpayer dollars to keep it up, only to watch it fall into extreme disrepair and be broken into time and time again. When Greater Corktown Development Corp. came forward with a plan to save and re-develop the stadium, Illitch never came to their aid once.

I see those people for who they really are, uber-rich business people with their own interests at the core of every development they invest in, not ours. Detroiters interests are who I will always fight to protect first and foremost, because if anything ever happens to Mr. Illitch and his "empire," it will be us left holding the bag, not him.

[Lorax]

In spite of what some posters here claim, and regardless of the "head fake" of buying up land north of 75 to muddy the intentions, the land north of 75 is largely city owned, and therefore cheaper to buy with relatively few private holdouts as opposed to south of 75.

And this wouldn't even be a thought if the Ilitches weren't involved in the Masonic Temple.

Visually and impact wise north of 75 makes more sense, and pulls midtown and downtown development even closer.

If Olympia ends up being built south of 75 it will be a mistake.

[detourdetroit]

Property monopolized or in the Possession of a few is a Curse to Mankind...

John Adams




[[with all due respect to Michael Moore)

[Lorax]

Wow, and to think Adams was a conservative!

[esp1986]

In spite of what some posters here claim, and regardless of the "head fake" of buying up land north of 75 to muddy the intentions, the land north of 75 is largely city owned, and therefore cheaper to buy with relatively few private holdouts as opposed to south of 75.

And this wouldn't even be a thought if the Ilitches weren't involved in the Masonic Temple.

Visually and impact wise north of 75 makes more sense, and pulls midtown and downtown development even closer.

If Olympia ends up being built south of 75 it will be a mistake.

Downtown and Midtown are so far from being drawn together it isn't even a thought. Even downtown, you have a bunch of little spots where there are modest developments at best. There is the business district, Greektown, Campus Martius, Foxtown and thanks to the Book-Cadillac, Washington Blvd is slowly making a comeback. In between each of these developments are bunches of abandoned buildings which eventually need to be filled in. An arena on GCP would help to connect Washington Blvd and GCP/Foxtown.

Building an arena north of I-75 only means another one of these developments without any connection to the others. Building in Foxtown makes the most sense, because it will make it a center gathering area, then development can grow out from there. North of I-75, there wont really be as much development nearby as a direct result. In Foxtown, Ilitch will own the land, develop it and the whole GCP area will benefit, including the UA and Washington Blvd.

How do you think Detroit got so messed up in the first place?? Because everybody wanted their own little space and so they disconnected themselves from the rest of the city/region. That is why the suburbs are so spread apart. Yesterday the former mayor of Pittsburgh spoke in Detroit. Pittsburgh has already been through what Detroit is now really experiencing. Pittsburgh rebuilt themselves from downtown out, and this is what Detroit needs to do. I would love to see them build out towards midtown, but until the demand is there to occupy the space between downtown and midtown, nothing will happen, and it would end up requiring a multi-billion dollar investment to even start to bring the two together, and that is not something that the area can support.

[Gistok]

Detroitsgwenivere... LOL... many of the oldtimers on this forum [[like myself, who have posted for many years)... know that I'm no Ilitch shill or patsy... nor do I work for them. I've given them their fair share of critcism for the shady way their Madison-Lenox came down, and the appalling way that they have been "benign neglectors" of the Fine Arts/Adams and United Artists Buildings.

And I also know that they are doing mysterious work on the United Artists complex without pulling any city permits, which other business owners would not be able to get away with.

However, that said... I have not heard of a single "shady deal" involving the Ilitch's and any fires downtown... such as the infamous Steven West, former owner of the fire prone Federal's Department Stores.

I would gladly like to see some facts, or newsclip or even blog that mentions any mysterious Ilitch goings on... besides their insatiable hunger for feeding at the public trough to do demo work, and their land banking...

And as for the Masonic Temple and Tiger Stadium.... first of all I didn't see anyone else lining up to pay their bills... once the remaining Masons would have left the buildings... they would have hightailed it to the suburbs so fast it would have made your head spin.... and the 1038 room monolith would have ended up like downtown Hudson's... an empty building, almost too big for many other uses. And as for Tiger Stadium... it was city owned...

[ghettopalmetto]

Building an arena north of I-75 only means another one of these developments without any connection to the others. Building in Foxtown makes the most sense, because it will make it a center gathering area, then development can grow out from there. North of I-75, there wont really be as much development nearby as a direct result. In Foxtown, Ilitch will own the land, develop it and the whole GCP area will benefit, including the UA and Washington Blvd.

Wasn't something similar said in regards to the location of Comerica Park 12 years ago?

[Verifiable]

Not sure if anyone here ever referenced this but here's a link to a map that's pretty comprehensive and shows a number of parcels and buildings owned by various Ilitch enterprises.

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.asp...8C8240620F!213

And also as a point of reference this link takes you to a rather comprehensive list of enterprises believed to be owned or controlled by the Ilitch Family and/or their casino syndicator partner Michael Malik http://www.theverifiabletruth.com/20...ch-casino.html

[Gistok]

Opps... I called him Venerable... but he is Verifiable [[not quite sainthood material ).

Welcome back Verifiable. Although I don't always agree with your view towards the Ilitch's [[and have stated so before), you do provide a valuable resource to this forum on what the Ilitch empire consists of.

As can be seen with your most recent updates... the Ilitch's have been very busy buying up land downtown/midtown. Some new folks who are not familiar with your prior postings on the old forum will likely be amazed at the amount of work you put into your "Ilitch Land Bank" research...

[reddog289]

Thats a hellava list. If I were in his shoes I wouldn't be able to keep track of all that stuff.

[Gistok]

Verifiable... #182 and #185 on your list [[the 2 Shapiro parcels on the Tuller Block) have been confirmed to now be Ilitch owned [[they own the entire Tuller/UA block).

Empty parking lots #178, #179 and #180 [[owned by Freda Alibri heirs) are the real stumbling blocks to a west Foxtown arena. Empty parking lots #193-#197 [[Sheehan owned), empty parking lots #201 & #203, and #202 [[The CC Bar) are also within the most likely arena site... although on the periphery.

When I say "most likely arena site"... that means the site with the least amount of required demolition [[west of the Park Ave. buildings and east of Cass, with Adams on the south and Montcalm on the north). Most of that 4 block area has already been cleared. Only demo work required in that site would be the CC Bar.

In the past folks have overlayed both JLA and the Palace to see if they would fit on the map in the area I just mentioned... and they both did [[parking not included).

[reddog289]

That is a good list. Thanks Verifiable for posting that, and the update from Gistok.

[EastSider]

When I say "most likely arena site"... that means the site with the least amount of required demolition [[west of the Park Ave. buildings and east of Cass, with Adams on the south and Montcalm on the north). Most of that 4 block area has already been cleared. Only demo work required in that site would be the CC Bar.

Maybe the only demo work above ground, but there's still a crap-load of work to do below ground in that area.

[Lorax]

Hey, folks, anyone notice the number of parcels owned north of 75?

I still say it's best built north of 75, and that will be the plan going forward.

[crawford]

This is a hilarious thread. Why no mention of unicorns or fairies?

There is no "New Olympia Arena".

No arena exists in the area, and no arena is planned [[except on DYes, of course).

The Wings already have a good arena and a good lease, and if they want a newer arena and more favorable lease, there's the very lucrative Palace [[among the two or three best in the country).

The Illitches will not spend a half-billion dollars and eviserate their fortune for a money-losing arena when the metro area already has two that are more than adequate. There would be absolutely no bottom-line benefit.

There is no city in the country with two modern, profitable arenas. To think that Detroit could be the one exception to the rule, especially in this economy, is absurd. To think that one of these arenas would be built in the badlands of the Cass Corridor defies all logic.

[bartock]

This is a hilarious thread. Why no mention of unicorns or fairies?

There is no "New Olympia Arena".

No arena exists in the area, and no arena is planned [[except on DYes, of course).

The Wings already have a good arena and a good lease, and if they want a newer arena and more favorable lease, there's the very lucrative Palace [[among the two or three best in the country).

The Illitches will not spend a half-billion dollars and eviserate their fortune for a money-losing arena when the metro area already has two that are more than adequate. There would be absolutely no bottom-line benefit.

There is no city in the country with two modern, profitable arenas. To think that Detroit could be the one exception to the rule, especially in this economy, is absurd. To think that one of these arenas would be built in the badlands of the Cass Corridor defies all logic.

The Illitches will not be spending much, if any, of "their" money on the arena. It will be "our" money that funds it.

[Lowell]

I will second Gistok's welcome back to Verifiable. Great work on your blog regarding the Ilitch empire.

My little birdies have been chirping 'north of I-75' all along. Recent acquistions and closing down of properties in that area, some of which are shown on the Autumn Tour, are lending weight to that move.

It makes a lot of sense from a prominent visiblity POV being on Woodward with a parking/ground floor retail on the Donovan/Motown site that would serve both the Tigers and Wings. It is far more attractive than being on back streets, like the Joe is now.

[esp1986]

This is a hilarious thread. Why no mention of unicorns or fairies?

There is no "New Olympia Arena".

No arena exists in the area, and no arena is planned [[except on DYes, of course).

The Wings already have a good arena and a good lease, and if they want a newer arena and more favorable lease, there's the very lucrative Palace [[among the two or three best in the country).

The Illitches will not spend a half-billion dollars and eviserate their fortune for a money-losing arena when the metro area already has two that are more than adequate. There would be absolutely no bottom-line benefit.

There is no city in the country with two modern, profitable arenas. To think that Detroit could be the one exception to the rule, especially in this economy, is absurd. To think that one of these arenas would be built in the badlands of the Cass Corridor defies all logic.

Ignorance is bliss. I do not even know where to start here.

1) 'The Joe' is not a good arena... it is among the worst in the NHL, only the team makes it good... once the Penguins get their new arena, JLA will be the worst in the NHL.

2) The Red Wings do not have a 'good lease.' They do for one year, after which time, they will not have a lease at all.

3) The Red Wings will not play at the Palace, not for more than a year at least, if JLA is renovated. Mike Ilitch has built his empire downtown, and that is where it will stay.

4) Detroit only has one arena. The Palace, on a good day is 45 minutes from dowtown, hardly Detroit.

5) Joe Louis Arena is far from adequate for modern standards, which is why the Palace always has the best acts that come to town. Any new arena, would be a state of the art facility, replacing the dilapidated JLA, and one-upping the Palace to lure the best acts downtown.

6) 'The Joe' may have the worst location downtown, with no developable space around it, landlocked and separated from downtown by Cobo Center. Any new arena will spur development around it and turn the area into another entertainment hub, rationalizing the investment.

Someone needs to do some research...

[Gistok]

Esp1986, I would characterize Crawford's "Turd in the Punchbowl" way of posting about arenas as "bliss"... it's more like Alzheimer's.

He probably did a cut/paste of his comments from the previous Arena thread. He was proven wrong then about his "Detroit can't handle 2 arenas mantra"... and obviously forgot about that part of the thread. No need to go into all the national statistics about arenas all over again. Maybe if he goes back and rereads the previous thread completely... he'll catch up to speed...

Most everyone else knows that if the Ilitch's were interested in staying at JLA, then they wouldn't have negotiated a year-by-year extension of their previous long term contract.

[slick]

This is a hilarious thread. Why no mention of unicorns or fairies?

Some of these folks should be hired by Illitch holdings.

I agree the Joe is a terrible location, tear it down or incorporate it into the new expanded Cobo Hall.