What Ilitch is sitting on

[buildingsofdetroit]

Has anyone ever compiled a list of exactly which abandoned/undeveloped property Ilitch owns/has owned until recently? [[Post-Madison-Lenox demo but including the recent taxpayer-funded demos.)

What I've got so far:
Adams Theatre [[demo'd by Ilitch)
Fine Arts Building [[demo'd by Ilitch)
Parking garage by Hotel Charlevoix [[demo'd by Ilitch)
Chin Tiki [[D.B.I.)
Moose Lodge
Detroit Life Building
United Artists Theatre
Building at Grand River and Columbia [[D.B.I.)
Building at Cass and Columbia [[D.B.I.)
Women's City Club

Seems like he's divested himself of most everything that hasn't already been saved. I know I'm missing some, though.

[buildingsofdetroit]

Forgot about the Hotel Vermont, though that came down two years ago, I think.

[rjlj]

I thought Forbes owned the Woman's City Club?

[buildingsofdetroit]

I thought Forbes owned the Woman's City Club?

You're right. My mistake.

[gnome]

I thought the Detroit Police Department owned the Woman's City Club.

[Jimaz]

Woe is me. I thought this was going to be a joke about someone's ass.

[JLeurck]

Does Illitch own the G.A.R. Building?

[detourdetroit]

while this is an interesting line of inquiry, i'm personally more curious about what ilitch holdings has its mitts on NORTH of the freeway. in my mind, resolving the "NEW OLYMPIA" issue with as little historic fabric lost is one of the more important planning decisions that need to happen downtown. i hope it happens south of the freeway so that we can begin to meaningfully take steps toward a masterplan for an integrated and mixed use lower corridor that is more dynamic and better quality than brush park.

[buildingsofdetroit]

while this is an interesting line of inquiry, i'm personally more curious about what ilitch holdings has its mitts on NORTH of the freeway. in my mind, resolving the "NEW OLYMPIA" issue with as little historic fabric lost is one of the more important planning decisions that need to happen downtown. i hope it happens south of the freeway so that we can begin to meaningfully take steps toward a masterplan for an integrated and mixed use lower corridor that is more dynamic and better quality than brush park.

Detour, I love you, man, but we're going to have to disagree on this. The Eddystone and Park Avenue cannot be saved. Is it physically feasible? Sure. But it's just not going to happen between the economy, the real estate market, the horrendous state of the neighborhood around them ... This is a case where it would benefit the city as a whole if these two National Register sites are razed and the arena goes there. It would help keep the Masonic afloat, help gentrify Cass Park and the area on the west side of Cass, possibly spark development interest in old Cass Tech and perhaps spark renewed interest in saving Brush Park landmarks. Would it do ALL of those things? Perhaps not. But I believe it could do some of those things. Building west of Foxtown makes little sense to me, but then again, building east of the Fox didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time, either.

[Lorax]

North of 75 is where Ilitch will build the new Olympia Stadium.

Look at the vast vacancy between there and the Masonic Temple. He stands a better chance of making a sweeping change in that area demolishing the Eddystone, Cass Tech is coming down too. Plus there's Woodward frontage which is largely vacant. The Artisan Ballroom is the only notable building still standing there.

With the Masonic Temple and Kresge Administration building anchoring the one corner of the rectangle, and the Stadium the opposite corner.

Other parcels recently demolished such as Chin Tiki and such will be parking lots.

[buildingsofdetroit]

North of 75 is where Ilitch will build the new Olympia Stadium.

Look at the vast vacancy between there and the Masonic Temple. He stands a better chance of making a sweeping change in that area demolishing the Eddystone, Cass Tech is coming down too. Plus there's Woodward frontage which is largely vacant. The Artisan Ballroom is the only notable building still standing there.

With the Masonic Temple and Kresge Administration building anchoring the one corner of the rectangle, and the Stadium the opposite corner.

Other parcels recently demolished such as Chin Tiki and such will be parking lots.

D'accord, Monseiur Lorax.

[esp1986]

North of 75 is where Ilitch will build the new Olympia Stadium.

Look at the vast vacancy between there and the Masonic Temple. He stands a better chance of making a sweeping change in that area demolishing the Eddystone, Cass Tech is coming down too. Plus there's Woodward frontage which is largely vacant. The Artisan Ballroom is the only notable building still standing there.

With the Masonic Temple and Kresge Administration building anchoring the one corner of the rectangle, and the Stadium the opposite corner.

Other parcels recently demolished such as Chin Tiki and such will be parking lots.

He is unlikely to build the arena north of I-75. A very reliable source told me a couple years ago that he wants to keep it on the south side to help in the continued redevelopment of the Foxtown/Grand Circus Park area. It is not a coincidence that a number of buildings behind the Fox have been renovated over the past couple years. He is still trying to aquire a few pieces of land integral to any potential project though. The source also told me that the arena was to coincide with a redevelopment of the Stadler and UA/Tuller Blocks on Grand Circus Park as a bigger entertainment project, but then the economy went south.

Some Canadian on here said he thinks that there will be an arena connected to Motor City Casino. This is largely false, as this would link Mike's name with the casino, something that is heavily frowned upon by Major League Baseball. The Ilitches remain heavily dedicated to improving their immediate neighborhood surrounding the Fox, per a quote from Ilitch communications officer Karen Cullen, [[I will try and find the quote) reaffirming my source's info.

[buildingsofdetroit]

Does Illitch own the G.A.R. Building?

No. He lost the rights by sitting on it too long. For the story about who's trying to save it now: http://buildingsofdetroit.com/places/gar

[Gistok]

Detourdetroit... I agree with your ideas... as much as there is lots of empty space between the Fisher Fwy. and the Eddystone... it is not all owned by Ilitch Holdings. I'm not sure that even a majority of the land area is owned by them... but it is mostly empty land.

However in the west Foxtown area the majority of the land between [[just west of) Park Ave. and Grand River Ave., between Montcalm and W. Adams is Ilitch owned. Last I saw... there were 7 parcels that prevented an arena footprint... the infamous 3 Alibri heirs parcels, 3 other parcels [[owned by 1 person) along the north side of Adams [[between Cass & Clifford I believe), and the CC Bar.

If these cannot be obtained, then perhaps the footprint can move slightly farther west... where Cass Ave. becomes a "roundabout" of sorts [[a better term would be one way perimeter drive) around the arena footprint in the middle of Cass. Detourdetroit, I also was thinking about how the Moose Lodge could be moved [[the Gem/Century way) as infill over to Park Ave.

I'm not sure building the arena next to MotorCity Casino is a good idea. There's the issue of free [[casino patrons) versus paid [[arena patrons) parking. And then there's the after game casino rush. I'm not sure how that sudden surge in casino attendance can be handled by a 3 shift 24/7 operation. It could become a hindrance and keep regular patrons away on busy game nights.

But I do think that Ilitch is going to be playing different sites against each other, as possible leverage against holdout sellers.

And I would not want to be a holdout seller if the arena footprint had to be moved slightly in that area to accommodate the holdouts... I could see them being purposefully boxed in by parking structures.

[Lorax]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there really enough room south of 75 to support a new arena and the attendant parking? Assuming the Grand Circus Park frontage is one day filled in with buildings matching the park wall of buildings currently there?

I could see it if the UA and the Michigan were removed, and possibly the GAR, but the parcels seem too disjointed to really be of much use except for parking or "future development."

Just an armchair point of view here, but I still think the Wooward frontage is key, as it has made Comerica Park much more visible and easily identifiable, whereas Ford Field is largely unseen and to my thinking is sort of there just looming in the background.

This is what I believe would happen with a new Olympia sited south of 75. There is no way to really keep an open sweep of sight lines, and may have an underwhelming impact when tucked into a largely disjointed, isolated area.

Building it where the old Motown/Donovan building was, as I mentioned in my previous post, set back on this monstrous piece of vacant property would tie it in to Cass Park, give it a sweeping presence on Woodward, and give people a reason to cross over 75 if there are attendant restaurants and shops as part of the deal. Parking could easily be integrated, and as I mentioned, converting old Cass Tech into a parking structure, preserving the best part of the building, it's exterior.

Just a few thoughts.

[esp1986]

Well first off, Ilitch does not own the land where the Donovan building used to sit, as of last time I heard. Second, Parking was an issue when Comerica and Ford Field both first opened, since then, it has been fine. A large parking structure would be built bordering the freeway to support the arena. The arena, as the old Olympia did, could very well face Grand River, next to the GAR.

It is no coincidence that, prior to the economy collapsing, the Ilitches were planning on renovating the Detroit Life Building, tearing down the Adams Theatre and the Fine Arts Building, saving the facade.

They were planning on announcing the new arena rather soon, but now the economy has put a damper on things, and the Fine Arts Facade hangs in the balance, and had they made their announcement by now, the Fine Arts Facade may not face the uncertain future that it now does, as they were expecting some interest in developing behind the facade, but without a certain arena, there is no interest.

The Ilitches are also thought to be cleaning up the United Artists Theatre, possibly preparing it for a renovation. Ilitch would have to own land north of I-75 for that to be a reality, and while he may own some, he is far more concerned with the area immediately neighboring Foxtown. I thought it was crazy too, but after I had seen some drawings of what it could be like with a 'New Olympia' off of Grand River or Adams, I was no longer skeptical.

All of the signs point to the arena being in the GCP area, whether off of Grand River or off of Adams, we will see what happens.

[Lorax]

If the Ilitches don't own the property north of 75, how much could it possibly cost? Assembling parcels in Detroit, especially for a billionaire is the least of his problems I would think.

Does anyone really think there isn't a single vacant parcel of land in Detroit that cannot be bought?

You mention placing the stadium next to the GAR- I still don't see how it's a good fit- perhaps hockey stadiums are smaller than I thought. And I don't think the Ilitches own the GAR- not yet anyway!

This is all interesting speculation, but speculation at best. Until they decide to announce, it's all hypothetical.

I still think the Masonic Temple must play into this somehow- why else would the Ilitches care to take on this monster? Unless it's to control the stage there, and keep it from competing with the Fox.

[detourdetroit]

lorax, you answered both of your own questions in terms of arena size and ilitch intent.

[3WC]

Lorax, you may be correct that Ilitch is buying land west of the Fox in order to pick up cheap land close to his other businesses. Who knows what they have in mind? Keep in mind, however, that Ilitch paid $1.6 million last year for a .17 acre piece with a tear-down building on it, adding to the cost. That's $236 a sq ft [[I don't have my calculator handy) , the highest price for land in downtown, ever, that I've heard of.

[buildingsofdetroit]

You mention placing the stadium next to the GAR- I still don't see how it's a good fit- perhaps hockey stadiums are smaller than I thought. And I don't think the Ilitches own the GAR- not yet anyway!

Ilitch lost his option on the GAR. It's now being pursued by Mindfield USA for its headquarters. Details at: http://www.buildingsofdetroit.com/places/gar

[detroitsgwenivere]

A business owner in Cass Corridor told me that Illitch just bought out the Taxi business on Cass and Clifford for 2 million. They were told that Illitch plans on building the stadium south of the freeway, but wants to obtain the property north of 75 so that he can put in a large scale parking garage and a heated walkway across the freeway [[nice!), and because he wants control over what gets developed around all of this. Buying the property before any big announcements are made makes sense. He gets all the land he wants at bargain prices and protects his investments from "undesirable" places and people, ie: low-income.

The business owners also told me they are gravely concerned about their own situation. They are scared that if they refuse an offer by Illitch that he'll have their business burned down. Apparently this happened to a greek guy's business where Comerica Park went. The guy couldn't even collect on his insurance policy because "someone" called and cancelled it a few days before.

Personally I'm kinda sick of Illitch buying up everything thats worth anything and turning Detroit into his own personal playground. I appreciate his business and everything, but it is NOT WISE for us to give so much control over our major assets to one business or indivdual. Plus, I was really hoping that Cass Corridor would remain, rising from the ashes by the very people who are willing to make it their home and invest in it's turn around, something we Detroiters could all be proud of. But everytime someone tries to buy one of the apartment building down there to rehab, they get stonewalled by red tape and bullshit. We should get more say in the development of our neighborhoods, and people do currently live in the corridor that are active in an attempt to take ownership of their neighborhood. If any of them are reading this, I support you guys all the way.

Buildingsofdetroit, I am offended by your light use of the word GENTRIFICATION. Hundreds of low income people have already been forcibly removed from that area with no affordable housing available to them and their children. The Corridor's NSO, DRMM, and COTS are all full to the brim because they have no other place to go, and I wonder where you think those places and people should be "genrified" to if you think they aren't good enought to be where they are now.

[Gistok]

Some posters here think that because Mike Ilitch now controls bookings at Masonic, that he is going to build his arena near there.

The Masonic folks were unhappy with the Nederlander organization for the lack of shows at the Masonic [[ergo fewer dollars for Masonic) And Mike & Marion Ilitch didn't want to see another giant empty hulk overlooking their casino and entertainment empire.

So Mike Ilitch paid the [[what was to him) paltry utility bills of the Masonic, got control of the bookings for the 4,404 seat Masonic Theatre and 1,585 seat Scottish Rite Theatre, and had the Masons stay in the building. This way he got control of the 2 theatres without having to be the owner [[and pay taxes) on a very large tax hog.

Plus he got the added bonus of using Midtown as an alternative site for a new arena, in case west Foxtown didn't pan out. Also, this pits 2 or more sites against each other... thus giving the uber-greedy remaining land owners something to think about.... take the gamble and sell or holdout and end up like the holdout riverfront casino landowners.

[Gistok]

Detroitsgwenivere, I don't think that the Ilitch clan would succumb to a Mafia style "burn down" of a building. I know of no building in the large stadia footprint that was burned down while Wayne County was using Eminent Domain [[which can't be used any more for building venues) to buy the land for the stadia in the 1990s.

Marion Ilitch [[and thru joint ownerships, her husband) had to pass the state background checks in order for Marion Ilitch to get a casino license back then... so any Ilitch activity that remotely smells illegal would have denied her a license.

The Ilitch's may be milking the system to get public grants and loans, but that's not an illegal activity. However, if someone gets into their way... they can be stubborn and vindictive... in a legal way. When the owner of the Women's Exchange Building along E. Adams went to court [[against the county) to prevent inclusion in the stadia footprint [[for use as a decorative sidewalk!), the building owners won the court decision. However, the Ilitch's got the last laugh [[of sorts) by not even talking with the owners when the building owners needed additional parking spaces for any redevelopment of the Women's Exchange Building.... that is until Red Wing Chris Chelios got involved in redeveloping that site.

I think that the worst that would happen [[as I already mentioned) is that any landowners that were holdouts, and required the Arena site to be adjusted... would be "built around"... so that their land would not be as desirable for any future endeavor.

In the last 3 years there have been many DYES threads that have aerial shots of the west Foxtown area showing both the Joe Louis footprint as fitting in behind the Fox [[north of Adams Ave.). It was even possible to fit them [[tightly) west of Cass into the triangle of land between Cass, Fisher Fwy Service Drive and Grand River. Even the slightly larger footprint of the Palace fits in west Foxtown.

As for being a billionaire and paying any amount to buy up the land... that's what holdout landowners want. They don't want [[as 3WC mentioned) $2+ million for their tiny site... but probably $10 million plus. Just look at the failed riverfront casino land acquisition... just part of the land needed cost $150 million!

The Ilitch's aren't telling anyone about what they plan for the United Artists complex nor what their plans are for the Fine Arts Building facade... for one very good reason... it will only drive the price of holdout land higher than it already is.

[detroitsgwenivere]

Gistok, How are the land owners considered uber-greedy when many of them had rightfully purchased those parcels with the intention of making a living or making a large profit. That's the name of the game, is it not? When Mike Illitch comes knocking at my door and all of my neighbor's doors with an offer to buy, he's looking at doing something that will make him some serious money. I ain't gotta wear a watch and I know what time it is.

And as far as "mafia" style tactics go, it's no secret that Illich Holdings has been suspected of participating in some shady shit to get what they want. I've heard things from DP &D and BS&E about strange "coincidences" and orders from the mayors office over the years to keep mouths shut or else. To me that's as good as the horses mouth, and I don't know who you talk to....... maybe you work for Illitch?

As far as the fire story goes, that's what I was told by someone else. I will take some time to find out more about it and post what I find. I do know this, people with money never get caught holding the lighter or the gascan, they just pay someone else to do it, and I've seen way too much bad shit go down involving city employees and cops to know that they aren't doing this stuff because they have nothing better to do. Someone is footing the bill, so don't tell me that people like Illitch aren't capable of these kinds of acts. I KNOW they are, I've seen it with my own 2 eyes.

Paltry utility bills paid in exchange for control of 2 major city landmarks? That's quite a deal if I may say so. I'm sorry but I don't care if he doesn't like empty hulks overlooking his city, I mean his "empire." Tell that to the hundreds of Corktowners that had to stare at that empty hulk of a stadium for over 10 years while Illitch was given millions of taxpayer dollars to keep it up, only to watch it fall into extreme disrepair and be broken into time and time again. When Greater Corktown Development Corp. came forward with a plan to save and re-develop the stadium, Illitch never came to their aid once.

I see those people for who they really are, uber-rich business people with their own interests at the core of every development they invest in, not ours. Detroiters interests are who I will always fight to protect first and foremost, because if anything ever happens to Mr. Illitch and his "empire," it will be us left holding the bag, not him.

[Lorax]

In spite of what some posters here claim, and regardless of the "head fake" of buying up land north of 75 to muddy the intentions, the land north of 75 is largely city owned, and therefore cheaper to buy with relatively few private holdouts as opposed to south of 75.

And this wouldn't even be a thought if the Ilitches weren't involved in the Masonic Temple.

Visually and impact wise north of 75 makes more sense, and pulls midtown and downtown development even closer.

If Olympia ends up being built south of 75 it will be a mistake.