Why Government Health Care Keeps Falling in the Polls

[ccbatson]

Don't tell me you don't know the definition of the word "correlation" either Rb....where do you go to elementary school? Your parents need to speak with your teachers.

[Detroitej72]

The right wing is terrified that a public option will be part of the package because they fear "little people" getting heath care and living longer to torment and complicate their lifestyles.

[ccbatson]

We all need to fear/rather fight a government takeover Detroitej72.

[Detroitej72]

There is no government take over of health care, contrary to what AM Radio preaches and indoctrinates the ditto heads to think. You need to put down the right wing kool aid.

There is no government take over of GM and Chrysler either. And contrary to right wing propaganda, there is no government take over of Santa Claus either, even though the conservatives think he is a socialist who needs to be stopped before he corrupts children into giving to others.

[rb336]

Don't tell me you don't know the definition of the word "correlation" either Rb....where do you go to elementary school? Your parents need to speak with your teachers.

bats, i said there was a correlation between the decline in unions and the decline in health. there is. I never said there was a causal link. you need some reading comprehension work, bub

[ccbatson]

Increasing costs can be tracked precisely with the institution of Medicare...sounds like correlation to me...and the folks at Webster's

[rb336]

Prove it. no such data exists

[Lorax]

You're right, no data exists for this.

Batts is the same person who said recision doesn't exist, and people are not dropped from their health care plans when they get a serious illness.

It happens all the time- yet another example amongst many proving there is no way he can be a "doctor."

[ccbatson]

Oh yeah?

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/apps/media/pr...&cboOrder=date

and this

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/apps/media/pr...p?Counter=1846

and this:

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/ReportsTrustF...ads/tr2006.pdf

I could go on, and on...but that should suffice...don't choke on it Rb.

[Sstashmoo]

A new day has dawned, Batts citing sources, what can it mean?

[Lorax]

Still waiting for proof that recision doesn't exist.

Hearing crickets.

[ccbatson]

Haven't you heard Lorax? 3.5% growth in GDP, if that happens for another quarter, we might technically be out of the recession....so what if it is fake? So what if the people voting know it is and who is perpetrating the deception?

[rb336]

Oh yeah?

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/apps/media/pr...&cboOrder=date

and this

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/apps/media/pr...p?Counter=1846

and this:

http://www.cms.hhs.gov/ReportsTrustF...ads/tr2006.pdf

I could go on, and on...but that should suffice...don't choke on it Rb.

why choke - there is nothing there! not one link between medicare and the general cost of medical care in this country. yes -- medicare costs are going up -- because more and more people are living longer and general medical costs are going up. not one thing in those reports links the implementation of medicare with skyrocketing health care costs, [[which is, in case you forgot, what your argument is and has been) unless you want to argue that the success of medicare in helping the elderly live longer is the cause -- whoops, that would undermine another of your arguments, can't do that. nice try, you lose again

[Detroitej72]

The costs of Medicare is increasing due to longer life expectancy. Conservatives are upset over this, and against affordable health care for all. This leads one to conclude that perhaps it is them who wish to implement death panels.

[ccbatson]

It is all there Rb [[you missed it, or don't comprehend it). Besides, the challenge you issued was to have me prove that my claim that Medicare costs have been going up beyond initial predictions since it's inception...I just did that and you just affirmed it.

Why are the costs up? No competition, no free market, no incentive to improve quality or decrease the costs. Medicare pays a fee regardless of quality or asking price.

[Lorax]

Still waiting for proof that recision doesn't exist.

Hearing crickets.

[ccbatson]

Your boys in the Obama administration just explained it...a 3.5% increase/growth in GDP last quarter...2 of those in a row and technically, there is no recession.

[elganned]

Why are the costs up? No competition, no free market, no incentive to improve quality or decrease the costs. Medicare pays a fee regardless of quality or asking price.

So the answer is to move away from a fee-for-service model. Is that what you're saying?

[ccbatson]

Fee for service...like getting your car fixed and paying for it? That IS what a free market is supposed to be. Private insurers operate by this principle. The difference with Medicare that they pay a FIXED fee without market forces in play.

[ghettopalmetto]

Fee for service...like getting your car fixed and paying for it? That IS what a free market is supposed to be. Private insurers operate by this principle. The difference with Medicare that they pay a FIXED fee without market forces in play.

The current model of health insurance is not free market. Unless we each get to choose our insurer, and the fees don't double every ten years for less and less "service", there's nothing competitive about health insurance.

[elganned]

Fee for service...like getting your car fixed and paying for it? That IS what a free market is supposed to be. Private insurers operate by this principle. The difference with Medicare that they pay a FIXED fee without market forces in play.

You should be grateful that Medicare pays a fixed price without negotiating, Cc. You yourself have said that insurance reimbursements for service almost always end up being within 20% of what Medicare pays. Without Medicare, reimbursements would be lower and your income would decline.

[rb336]

You should be grateful that Medicare pays a fixed price without negotiating, Cc. You yourself have said that insurance reimbursements for service almost always end up being within 20% of what Medicare pays. Without Medicare, reimbursements would be lower and your income would decline.

My cousin works in the administrative end of a formerly non-profit hospital in the Chicago area. Blue Cross "re-negotiated" contracts with the hospitals -- onsisting they would only pay 80% of what medicare pays. they refused, went bankrupt, and were purchased by a private firm affiliated with [[as in majority stock holder) a medical insurance company, that immediately demanded pay cuts for doctors, nurses, etc, while bumping administration pay

[ccbatson]

Proves my point...Socialised medicine, now, not after Obamacare, changes the behavior in the private sector, destroying market forces which would [[but now can't) drive down costs and increase quality.

[elganned]

Proves my point...Socialised medicine, now, not after Obamacare, changes the behavior in the private sector, destroying market forces which would [[but now can't) drive down costs and increase quality.

I call bullshit. As long as the supply of doctors is kept artifically low by the AMA, healthcare costs will not come down.

Must be nice to have your own union, Cc.

[rb336]

Proves my point...Socialised medicine, now, not after Obamacare, changes the behavior in the private sector, destroying market forces which would [[but now can't) drive down costs and increase quality.

saying that a private insurance group forcing hospitals to accept 20% LOWER payments than medicare pays is proof that govt programs don't lower costs is not only thoroughly illogical, but, well, you fill in the blank