Judge sides with city council on Cobo Deal

**andyguard** · April-10-09, 02:13 AM

Can someone please explain to me why the ruling was so clear from the get-go? If I understand it right, Council didn't have approve of the deal, they could only choose not to approve it, which they did by passing a resolution. According to city charter, the mayor has a right to veto resolutions from the council [[aside from some specific cases), which he did. And from what I understand, there is no place in authority legislation that says he can't do that. So I guess I don't understand why it's so clear that he didn't have the authority to veto. I would understand if it if the legislation said he couldn't veto, and the battle was over legislation vs city charter, but it's not. I guess I don't see the conflict between the two. I'm not trying to make a point here, I'm just really trying to understand why some on here feel that it is clearly the right decision.

**thefishwrap** · April-10-09, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Novine

".Patterson says there's a one million square foot building that needs very little to get it up to par for the auto show, he says its on Centerpoint Parkway., near the Pontiac - Bloomfield Township border. I Live about 4 miles from there - I'm not sure what building he's talking about though."

Let's say this building exists. Who's money is going to renovate it? Who's money is going to operate it? What hotels are the people visiting going to stay at? What shows other than the auto show would take place at this location that would keep it in operation year-round? Do you really believe that people are going to come from across the country and the world to attend shows at the Centerpoint campus? Just because LBP blows this hot air doesn't mean you should accept his word as gospel.

I'm not 100 percent sure, but I think the thinking is the current legislation that the Detroit City Council rejected would have extended that hotel, beer and liquor tax until 2035 in Oakland, Macomb and Wayne counties or something to pay for the upgrades. Patterson is now looking to extend the tax ONLY for Oakland County, and pay for the upgrades to a viable building.

This is going to be ugly.

Angry Dad · April-10-09, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by thefishwrap

I'm not 100 percent sure, but I think the thinking is the current legislation that the Detroit City Council rejected would have extended that hotel, beer and liquor tax until 2035 in Oakland, Macomb and Wayne counties or something to pay for the upgrades. Patterson is now looking to extend the tax ONLY for Oakland County, and pay for the upgrades to a viable building.

This is going to be ugly.

Already is ugly.

Politicians fighting only results in one thing, the public loses.

**Huggybear** · April-10-09, 08:27 AM

Would eminent domain power [[as recently constrained) allow the City to take the 7-acre parcel at Gratiot and I-375? I would think that a convention center owned by the city is a public purpose in anyone's book.

**vintagesoul** · April-10-09, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Huggybear

Would eminent domain power [[as recently constrained) allow the City to take the 7-acre parcel at Gratiot and I-375? I would think that a convention center owned by the city is a public purpose in anyone's book.

Or the old Packard for that matter... That would help that neck of the woods out quite a bit I would think...

**Fnemecek** · April-10-09, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by LodgeDodger

New article in the FREEP says Bing is slamming Cockrel over the Cobo defeat.

Bing is quoted as saying:
"My opponent's failures have cost Detroit investment, job creation, tourism dollars and more,â€ Bing said in a statement. â€œThis development dramatically underscores the need for a change in the leadership of Detroit. We need leadership that can get the deal done."

Oh please! Bing wouldn't have had much better luck. The council would have picked any sort of reason to block any deal Bing could have brokered.

Maybe. Maybe not.

But I seriously doubt that Mr. Bing would have pushed a major piece of legislation through the State Legislature that was conditional on the Detroit City Council doing something sensible during an election season.

**Novine** · April-10-09, 10:16 AM

"Can someone please explain to me why the ruling was so clear from the get-go?"

This was discussed on a thread on the old board. The language in the state law clearly gives the Council the authority to reject the legislation. There's also court cases and Attorney General opinions that deal with this very issue and reject the Mayor's position that he can veto the council's action. Once I read the court cases, it was clear that the Mayor was going to lose.

**Novine** · April-10-09, 10:19 AM

"Patterson is now looking to extend the tax ONLY for Oakland County, and pay for the upgrades to a viable building."

That's probably not going to raise enough money to do the task. As I stated before, there's no building in Oakland County large enough to host the Auto Show today. Even if you converted or expanded an existing building, what business are you going to attract for the other 11 months of the year to help cover the operating costs that would come with a building that size? Where are you going to find the hotel rooms or the transportation to support shows that large? Not one person has been able to answer those questions which tells me that none of these proposals are serious or that anyone is thinking beyond a "Bleep Detroit and Monica!" position.

**dtowncitylover** · April-10-09, 11:26 AM

While there may not be a space for the OC to host the Auto Show, I will not cry for city if/when the show is relocated to Oakland County. It's the Council's fault for not supporting an accord that was disliked by all, but everyone had to deal with it.

**Olddetroiter** · April-10-09, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

As for Brooks' desire to move the Auto Show to Pontiac or anywhere else in Oakland County, dismiss this nonsense. Even if the folks from the Auto Show wanted to move it, it would be going to Chicago or perhaps Los Angeles. Comparing Pontiac to Chicago is like comparing a chick pea to a orange. It is Detroit or bust for the NAIAS.

I agree. Even if Brooksie can come up with the meeting space, only Detroit has adequate hotel and entertainment facilities to support a large convention. Thereâ€™s no way the out-of-towners will want to waste their time shuttling between Detroit and Oakland County. And once the Auto Show leaves itâ€™s only a matter of time before the smaller conventions stop coming tooâ€¦ Itâ€™s not only â€˜Detroit or bustâ€™. Itâ€™s Cobo or bust. I canâ€™t see any way of coming up with enough to build a brand new facility.

As much as I dislike Kwame for what he did to Detroit, I think this would all be a non-issue if he was still mayor. He would either have influenced the original plan more or smoozed Monica into voting for it anyway. Plus Ken C would still be on the council which would mean another affirmative vote.

Iâ€™m afraid the $8.5 million Kwame cost the city could look like chicken feed compared to Monicaâ€™s possible legacyâ€¦. A derelict river front convention hall, bankrupt hotels and casinos, and businesses that moved downtown to participate in the Detroit renaissance fleeing back to the suburbs.

Stosh · April-10-09, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Olddetroiter

I agree. Even if Brooksie can come up with the meeting space, only Detroit has adequate hotel and entertainment facilities to support a large convention. There’s no way the out-of-towners will want to waste their time shuttling between Detroit and Oakland County. And once the Auto Show leaves it’s only a matter of time before the smaller conventions stop coming too… It’s not only ‘Detroit or bust’. It’s Cobo or bust. I can’t see any way of coming up with enough to build a brand new facility.

The Centerpoint location, which I'd speculate is the current home to GM Truck Product Center, has about 565 hotel rooms currently within 1.5 miles of it's location.

By comparison, the Marriott Ren Cen has 1,298 by itself.

**Roq** · April-10-09, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Olddetroiter

Thereâ€™s no way the out-of-towners will want to waste their time shuttling between Detroit and Oakland County.

Christ, you make it sound like Oakland County is as far away as Flint.

**Novine** · April-10-09, 04:29 PM

According to news reports, there's about 4000 hotel rooms in Downtown Detroit proper. There's nothing like that number near any location in Oakland County. And do you think everyone coming to the event is going to rent a car or rely on the hotel transportation to get to the center? Or are they going to ride the non-existent transit services?

LodgeDodger · April-10-09, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Roq

Christ, you make it sound like Oakland County is as far away as Flint.

Well, Auburn Hills IS two hours from Detroit, according to the Motown nutcase.

**softailrider** · April-10-09, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Stosh

The Centerpoint location, which I'd speculate is the current home to GM Truck Product Center, has about 565 hotel rooms currently within 1.5 miles of it's location.

By comparison, the Marriott Ren Cen has 1,298 by itself.

I don't believe that 565 number at all, you drive on Opdike Road and you see hotel after hotel. That Hilton Suites on Featherstone is huge, it must have close to 400 rooms, maybe more then that. There must be at least another dozen hotels out there.

**Novine** · April-10-09, 04:59 PM

Look at a map. The hotels on Featherstone are over 3 miles from Centerpoint. Are people going to walk down Opdyke to get to the center? Or ride the bus that doesn't exist? Or the light-rail that doesn't exist? They're all going to rent cars? No.

**R8RBOB** · April-10-09, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Olddetroiter

As much as I dislike Kwame for what he did to Detroit, I think this would all be a non-issue if he was still mayor. He would either have influenced the original plan more or smoozed Monica into voting for it anyway. Plus Ken C would still be on the council which would mean another affirmative vote.

For someone who served on the city council for years, Cockrel acts like he is a foreigner. As mayor he knows that he need votes and arm-twisting is allowed. Kwame Kilpatrick was a master at it. Especially with a council dominated by women. The deal to regionalize Cobo should not been signed off until Cockrel could have delivered the votes to make this happen. This disaster falls to the feet of the mayor.

**Zimm** · April-10-09, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

Look at a map. The hotels on Featherstone are over 3 miles from Centerpoint. Are people going to walk down Opdyke to get to the center? Or ride the bus that doesn't exist? Or the light-rail that doesn't exist? They're all going to rent cars? No.

shuttle busses? cheap. temporary. picks people up at the door of their hotel and drops them off at the door of where they're going. is there anything easier?

**R8RBOB** · April-10-09, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

While there may not be a space for the OC to host the Auto Show, I will not cry for city if/when the show is relocated to Oakland County. It's the Council's fault for not supporting an accord that was disliked by all, but everyone had to deal with it.

If/when the show is relocated to Oakland County!!! Why do people think that Oakland County would be the choice? If the NAIAS decided to leave Cobo then you have players from Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Miami, Las Vegas, New York City with bids to move the show to their city. Oakland County has no major city to sell the Auto Show with and Patterson knows that. You can't sell Pontiac as the place where the world press is going to flock for a week looking at cars.

I think we know that Detroit host the NAIAS for symbolic reasons. [[Motor City, home of GM, five dollar work days, created the middle-classs, etc...) This is not 1975 or 1978. You can't move the Auto Show to the suburbs and call it Detroit's Auto Show. So, it is Cobo or bust or Detroit or bust. Either it stays in Detroit proper or it goes away out of the state.

**Olddetroiter** · April-10-09, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by Zimm

shuttle busses? cheap. temporary. picks people up at the door of their hotel and drops them off at the door of where they're going. is there anything easier?

And then takes them back to their hotels at the end of the day??? Conventioneers want to party after the presentations [[sometimes during the presentations), not spend the evening sitting in their Oakland County hotel rooms.

**Olddetroiter** · April-10-09, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by Roq

Christ, you make it sound like Oakland County is as far away as Flint.

Maybe not, but it sure seems like it during rush hour. I live in Oakland County near Pontiac and used to work in the Ren Cen. Allocate about 1 1/2 hours for the trip each way. That's 1 1/2 hours earlier the conventioneers have to get up in the morning and 1 1/2 hours less after-meeting party time. BTW don't look for time savings because you are going in the opposite direction as the working people. The traffic is heavy in both directions during rush hour.

**softailrider** · April-10-09, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Zimm

shuttle busses? cheap. temporary. picks people up at the door of their hotel and drops them off at the door of where they're going. is there anything easier?

Worked during the Ryder Cup and PGA at Oakland Hills.

**Olddetroiter** · April-10-09, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Worked during the Ryder Cup and PGA at Oakland Hills.

650,517 attended the 2009 NAIAS [[a bad year due to the economy). The record is 810,699 in 2003. I can't find attendance figures for the Ryder Cup and PGA tournaments, but I bet they were nowhere close to these.

**erikd** · April-10-09, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

Worked during the Ryder Cup and PGA at Oakland Hills.

Lake Placid worked for the 1980 Winter Olympics, but that doesn't make it a good place to build a convention center.

**firstandten** · April-11-09, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

For someone who served on the city council for years, Cockrel acts like he is a foreigner. As mayor he knows that he need votes and arm-twisting is allowed. Kwame Kilpatrick was a master at it. Especially with a council dominated by women. The deal to regionalize Cobo should not been signed off until Cockrel could have delivered the votes to make this happen. This disaster falls to the feet of the mayor.

As much as I'm not in love with Bing this failure by Cockrel is very troublesome.

It just may come down to which flawed candidate will do the least amount of damage.