I wish these leaders would wake up

[elganned]

You may not have been around for the Cuban Missle Crisis, but there were mornings we wondered just exactly that.

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "Maybe if Israel would wake up, stop building settlements on land they don't own, and get serious about a Palestinian state, they wouldn't have to worry so much about people trying to destroy them."

Bingo

[rb336]

That's exactly the point, d.mcc; Israel hasn't come after Iran or Syria ever. Just the opposite, in fact, in 1967, 1970, and 1973.

The first attacks in the six-days war were from Israel, not the Arabic states. simple fact of history

[d.mcc]

You may not have been around for the Cuban Missle Crisis, but there were mornings we wondered just exactly that.

The assumption here, is that as soon as the Syrians or anyone else get the bomb they will use it... Perhaps it will function more as a deterrent from Israel being a the big bad bully that they constantly are. Its really easy to beat up on someone when they are throwing rocks at your high tech tank...

[elganned]

The first attacks in the six-days war were from Israel, not the Arabic states. simple fact of history

True. But when the enemy is massing on your border, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what they plan to do with all those tanks and APCs.

[elganned]

The assumption here, is that as soon as the Syrians or anyone else get the bomb they will use it... Perhaps it will function more as a deterrent from Israel being a the big bad bully that they constantly are. Its really easy to beat up on someone when they are throwing rocks at your high tech tank...

If the Palestinians were getting the bomb, you might have a point.

But Israel hasn't beaten up on the Syrians for some 30 years, now, and I doubt they plan to start. In any case if Iran or Syria do get a nuke, I hope you're right and they only use it as a deterrent.

Oh, and launching rockets willy-nilly at random civilian targets doesn't exactly equate to throwing rocks at tanks.

[ccbatson]

Rb...even the Arabs acknowledge that they were the aggressors...only Mr. contrary himself would spin it the other way around.

[ccbatson]

Even if they were the aggressors, the rules of war indicate that the spoils of war go to the victor until, or unless, at the conclusion of said war [[defeat/surrender of one side), the prevailing side agrees to relinquish the spoils. In this case, the war was never concluded.

[gibran]

the reality is that all sides of the 67 year war blinked..Egypt was posturing and blustering...Israel launched it's preemptive strikes to deter any chances...we were preoccupied with Viet Nam and the Elections and Johnson didn't want any more trouble domestic or foreign [[ie USS Liberty was swept under the carpet)..so diplomacy was not a top priority. Just like now...[[when was the last time we heard anything on the settlements?...too busy with Health care, Afghanistan etc....)...we are preoccupied to set Israel as a priority, we are still afraid of AIPAC in congress and besides they enjoy their "educational trips" to Israel way too much. [[ two trips this past August ..one for Republicans in which Kantor took a bunch of them for a tour, and one for the Democrats...) this while we were debating HC, Afghanistan and other important issues)

second point:
Syria and Iran would be bombing their cousins if you look at the size and distance between countries, the ramifications domestically would be end of game...Israel has 200 nukes or more...biological weapons and perhaps the second or fourth best trained army...any war at this point would be massive suicide. These WMD are deterrents for peace more than for balance in the region, but they will be used as an excuse to "preemptively" strike again.

yes launching rockets at civilians is wrong, and so is phosphorous and cluster bomb in response.

[d.mcc]

If I am Syria, I look at what and how Israel carries out its policies towards Lebanon, Gaza, and the West Bank; It doesn't take a genius to realize that the aggressor in the region is the Israeli right-wing [[which it appears they justify by pointing to their largest supporter).

[ccbatson]

I do fault Israel, as I have said, for not being decisive in the war from the get go.

[d.mcc]

I do fault Israel, as I have said, for not being decisive in the war from the get go.

I see, care to elaborate on this statement, or are you only capable of one liners in response?

[elganned]

Even if they were the aggressors, the rules of war

Rules? War has rules? Who's the referee that enforces the "rules"? But that's a sidebar issue...

indicate that the spoils of war go to the victor

until, or unless, at the conclusion of said war [[defeat/surrender of one side), the prevailing side agrees to relinquish the spoils.

So might makes right. Got it. Bismark would be beaming with pride in you, Cc.

In this case, the war was never concluded.

What part of "peace treaty" don't you understand? Israel has had a treaty in place with Egypt for 30 years, with Jordan for 15. I'd say that concluded the war by any reasonable understanding of the terms "war" and "peace".

[elganned]

d.mcc, one-liners are Cc's stock in trade. Never elaborate when a bald, unsupported, ambiguous phrase will serve to state a point without really making one.

In Cc's case, I'll be presumptuous and answer for him: "Decisive" would have been the burning of Cairo, Damascus, and Amman and the reduction of Syria, Jordan, and Egypt to vassal states.

[ccbatson]

Surrender, or removal of the leaders of the enemy regime followed by restructuring by the terms of the victor.

[elganned]

Utterly and stunningly unrealistic.

Defeating an enemy army does not ipso facto mean you are capable of imposing your will upon an enemy populace that outnumbers yours by a ratio of 6:1. Unless Israel could have simultaneously occupied Cairo, Amman, and Damascus such an outcome is impossible; Israel didn't then--and doesn't now--have the resources.

[ccbatson]

Pure common sense is the essence of "reality" Elganned.

[elganned]

Another one-line drive-by non-answer, apropos of nothing preceding it.

[rb336]

Pure common sense is the essence of "reality" Elganned.

and day after day, your posts are a "reality free zone"

[d.mcc]

Pure common sense is the essence of "reality" Elganned.

I love how the right debates, "drive by arguments" are not conducive to actual debate, so when the other side cannot make a counter point based on limited information given, the driver declares victory...

[ccbatson]

Concession of your defeat graciously accepted d.mcc

[d.mcc]

Concession of your defeat graciously accepted d.mcc

*vrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooom*

I cannot even begin to thank you for your sincerest gratitude. I have enjoyed our errr...debate? You have, um... imparted, knowledge [[?) upon me. Thank you

[ccbatson]

Most welcome, come back and try again sometime.

[Stosh]

Most welcome, come back and try again sometime.

You have nothing. Ever. You are just an empty shell, void of meaning.

[maxx]

You may not have been around for the Cuban Missle Crisis, but there were mornings we wondered just exactly that.

And how old were you back then? Do you still think the USSR ever considered risking their homeland for Cuba in the 1960's?