Detroit Ranch

[cub]

Soil test should/would be mandatory. I get every lot we adopt soil tested if they get planted or not.

[cman710]

I could not support this proposal without explicitly knowing that the land that these agricultural activities were talking place on were free of environmental hazards. I applaud the "let'em roam" spirit; however, I feel that due to the huge amount of known and suspected environmental hazardous areas facilitated by the Detroit's industrial past [[in concert with improper handling of chemicals by both private and public persons) that in practice it would be very problematic and do more harm than good.

Baseline, I think you make a good point. Significant parts of the city have environmental contamination problems, and I do not think anyone would want vegetables grown in those areas. In order for these visions to be practical, a comprehensive environmental assessment would need to be done to identify those areas that should not be used for raising food.

[Baselinepunk]

Put the farms in former residential areas rather than industrial sites.

There are a lot of contaminates in the ground on residential sites. Detroit used to do the "knock it in the basement and cover it up" for while. Those sites would have all kinds of lead and other chemicals that would have to be removed. More on that in a second.

"Soil test should/would be mandatory. I get every lot we adopt soil tested if they get planted or not."

Good, I'm glad that is happening. Please spread the word.

"Baseline, I think you make a good point. Significant parts of the city have environmental contamination problems, and I do not think anyone would want vegetables grown in those areas"

Thank you. Let us also include the areas where animals would be grazing as well. Over time the vegetation that would be consumed on these areas by grazing animals may concentrate in the animal ala Tuna. While very different, Tuna is the best and most high profile species I can illustrate my concern.

"In order for these visions to be practical, a comprehensive environmental assessment would need to be done to identify those areas that should not be used for raising food"

I fully agree. However, I have to wonder that if this action were to be employed, where would the money to do this come from? Further, where would the money come from that would educate people on certain contaminated areas, the clean up of site if needed, prevent those areas from being used, encourage/enforce best practices, proper animal waste handling [[even if by-products are reused as biofuels)? Who or what would be in charge of regulation? Would there be a need to issue permits? How would urban farmers realize their growing resources? How/who would these areas be insured? Would there have to be rezoning of these permitted areas?

To me, the whole urban farming thing is a great opportunity. However, like all good intentions, there is a possibility of creating a Hell in a hand basket if not approached with eyes wide open. I've seen urban farmers in my mother's area of Woodbridge "confiscate" property and farm it with no care or concern for the local residents. Rats started to be a problem [[which is another huge issue, but could be balanced by the introduction/encouragement of existing natural predators), the lot became very "natural" and the farmers belligerent regarding residents requests to properly maintain the "farm".

I offer the above not as an example as a means to paint the urban farmer culture as a whole; rather, as a means to illustrate what can, and very well may if these urban farms are created without proper structure, regulation and [[perhaps most importantly) oversight.

[Rideron]

"I offer the above not as an example as a means to paint the urban farmer culture as a whole; rather, as a means to illustrate what can, and very well may if these urban farms are created without proper structure, regulation and [[perhaps most importantly) oversight."

"Proper structure"? 'regulation'?? "oversight' ??????



Forget the whole thing.

[gazhekwe]

Industrial contamination is not new, and not just here, either. Back in the war and postwar era everywhere, manufacturing went crazy, and no one gave a thought to waste disposal. At that time, coal furnaces still belched smoke and ash into the air from every home and business. It was incredibly dirty back in the idyllic past. Fortunately saner heads prevailed and we got to thinking about what the waste contained and what it could do to people if ingested however it might be ingested. Think revelatory events like Times Beach, MO, Love Canal, NY, and more. There is still a fenced off school near Joy Road and Newburgh that was built on top of a landfill.

So, during that time, our family lived in Sault Ste. Marie, where the largest industry was Union Carbide. I don't know what they made but it was hot and looked like ash colored cakes coming down the assembly line.

One by-product was some kind of lime, it was dumped in huge ashy looking piles in an empty field in my neighborhood [[the Indian community part of town). We would plant our garden every spring, that we ate off all year round, in the lot next to our house. The east wind would lift the powder off the carbide piles and blow it in our direction. We didn't know what was in it, but one of the dogs got into it and came back all burnt on his tummy. We washed everything well before we ate it, but we couldn't do anything about the earth in our garden. Union Carbide is long gone, and those ashy piles have eroded down to a long low ridge covered by sparse brush. Things don't seem to grow well on them.

It's been a lifetime and I haven't grown three eyes or anything, but you never know what you may have picked up from the irresponsible unknowing acts of a previous age.

[Baselinepunk]

"Forget the whole thing."

With all due respect, Rideron ... that's quite a defeatist attitude. Those measures could happen with the proper fiduciary support and guidance. Further, it may facilitate an average amount of employment, sources of "new" revenue and economic security for some.

Now granted ... and perhaps this is where Rideron is going with his post; with the current administrative leadership and bureaucratic structure that facilitates fiduciary waste and corruption in D-Town proper I can see how some can easily claim that "it" could not happen. However, I will caution those on that line of thinking; change comes in many forms and fashions. It behooves the local citizenry to work [[hard) toward making this happen if this is what they want.

Why not? Habitat for Humanity works; this should work if properly structured as well.

[cub]

I saw more rats before we cleaned up our lots than I do now, even with the large compost pile we have. You have to educate people. I had a lady tell me she saw rats in her garage and she attributed it to the wood pile at the back of the garden. The city came out twice and praise the way I keep the compost pile. I just need to get a chipper and get rid of some of the brush. I have seen rabbits in the wood pile and the garden but never a rat. Teaching people and showing them how to turn a compost pile and what to put in it is the ky to keeping down the rodents.

I have to find my research papers but I read somewhere that most vegetables don't take contaminates out of the soil and the ones that do, don't take up enough to be measurable. Sunflowers take up contaminates and help amend the soil. The Garden Resource Program teach Urban Farmers everything from A to Z. If those gardens in Woodbridge aren't using the education to keep a clean and nurturing garden that the residents can be proud of they are lazy and need to be shut down. [[Yes I said it)

[stonechipped]

Cub are you currently farming in Detroit ?

[cub]

Yes.

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