Report: Secret Service strained to protect Obama

[ccbatson]

I will concede that there was a strong element of deception when GWB focused on WMDs as the justification for the second gulf war. However, does it matter when the action was justified for many reasons?

[Lorax]

What an apologist for a lying, thieving fascist administration.

[Detroit Stylin]

I will concede that there was a strong element of deception when GWB focused on WMDs as the justification for the second gulf war. However, does it matter when the action was justified for many reasons?

Ummmmmm........NO

[elganned]

I will concede that there was a strong element of deception when GWB focused on WMDs as the justification for the second gulf war. However, does it matter when the action was justified for many reasons?

Cc, if it was justified for many reasons, they wouldn't have had to lie about it. So your premise is false.

[ccbatson]

Naive and wrong...liberals voters would not politically support the operation if the real reasons were stated. Not only that, the reasons were all put forth, but the deception came in the form of prioritizing them the way they were.

[elganned]

So it's okay to lie in a good cause. Got it.

[ccbatson]

Didn't you see where I said that this was a mistake on GWB's part?

[elganned]

What I saw is your assertion that even though it was a mistake, it wasn't wrong. His fault in your view lies not in the doing of it, but rather in the getting caught.

[ccbatson]

The action [[going into Iraq) was not wrong...the deception was a bad play...that is what I said.

[elganned]

The action [[going into Iraq) was not wrong...the deception was a bad play...that is what I said.

But it was wrong. It was unjustified.

Whatever other excuses you think you can come up with, Cheney and Co. made up the WMD story because they knew they didn't have a leg to stand on.

[ccbatson]

Already answered and proven by me several times...saying it is, in your opinion, wrong without explaining with compelling arguments why, is no better than saying nothing.

[Papasito]

the conservatives encourage hate and violence against anyone who doesn't drink their kool aid..

Last I checked, there have been quite a few presidents that were white guys taking bullets, some of them Republicans, too.
Don't be so narrow minded.

[elganned]

Already answered and proven by me several times...saying it is, in your opinion, wrong without explaining with compelling arguments why, is no better than saying nothing.

The unjustified invasion of another country which has done neither you or your ally any injury is wrong by any rational measure and doesn't require compelling arguments to prove it so.

The opposite view, that any old excuse is good enough to invade somebody, even one that's created from whole cloth, is the premise requiring support, which you have failed to provide.

As one who trumpets his "rational and objective" view of the world, I would have thought you would understand that much.

[d.mcc]

Last I checked, there have been quite a few presidents that were white guys taking bullets, some of them Republicans, too.
Don't be so narrow minded.

They weren't being urged on by Liberals though... It's usually against the liberal belief system to end another life...

[ccbatson]

It is against all legitimate belief systems to end a human life unless it is to protect and defend your own.

[elganned]

All depends on what you consider "legitimate", I guess.
Cultures all over the world have been practicing exposure of defective infants for thousands of years. I suppose you could claim that they aren't "legitimate" belief systems, but you'd have a hard time selling them on that notion.

[ccbatson]

Self contained definition...legitimate if human life is sacred [[with defense of life/liberty as the only acceptable exception).

[Stosh]

Self contained definition...legitimate if human life is sacred [[with defense of life/liberty as the only acceptable exception).

True. But still a narrowminded solution. No absolutes.

[ccbatson]

Rational existence and a civil society have their foundation in absolutes.

[rb336]

It is against all legitimate belief systems to end a human life unless it is to protect and defend your own.

that may be the first factual statement you have ever made here, bats

[rb336]

the problem here isn't onw of absolutes -- it is one of what contitutes a threat.

let's say a child is born in a very poor society -- and it has little chance of surviving its first year unless [[and at that, still slim) it uses resources that would go to sustaining a child that had already survived the first year, thus consigning that child to death. the rational thing to do would be to preserve the child that had made it past the critical point.

[elganned]

Rational existence and a civil society have their foundation in absolutes.

Absolutes established by fiat as being embodiments of human perception of what works. And that varies from culture to culture, which you would know if you spent even a modicum of the time on studying anthropology that you spend on spreading the Gospel according to Rand.

[ccbatson]

Not "what works" but "what is"...therein lies your mistake in this line of reasoning.