Pugh eyes council despite looming foreclosure

[SWMAP]

Maybe his consultant Christine told him that the REAL value in the job [[for some people) is the money you can take home on the side...

[CMooreBMoore]

Has anyone stopped to remember that the man is unemployed?
In response to that point - say what you want about how he could
have planned better, thought it out what have you.
The state of our economy is point-blank proof that the unexpected can always occur no matter how much you plan.

Anyhow - try telling me this foreclosure doesn't actually WORK for him on Nov. 4th.
I wouldn't even be surprised if this scenario is a planned gimmick.

Either way - let's not delight in the misfortunes of others.
Foreclosure / the current state of the city is no joke.
That's for the people who think foreclosure is good material for a funny joke.
Ha Ha ... until it's you.

[kraig]

Maybe his consultant Christine told him that the REAL value in the job [[for some people) is the money you can take home on the side...

LMAO. Good one, SWMAP. Bringing up Christine reminds me how much politics make for strange bedfellows. Christine Beatty is best friends and advisor to Saunteel Jenkins. Saunteel Jenkins appears to be closely allied with Gary Brown. Gary Brown is the man who's actions eventually led to the downfall of Kwame and Christine. You gotta love this City.

[jt1]

Has anyone stopped to remember that the man is unemployed?
In response to that point - say what you want about how he could
have planned better, thought it out what have you.
The state of our economy is point-blank proof that the unexpected can always occur no matter how much you plan. .

Unemployed by choice is much different from unemployed by situation. I feel bad for the millions of people looking for a job but can't find employment. i don't feel bad for someone that chose to leave a job, technically two jobs in these economic times.

Anyhow - try telling me this foreclosure doesn't actually WORK for him on Nov. 4th.
I wouldn't even be surprised if this scenario is a planned gimmick.

Seeing that he was threatened with eviction so many times as a renter I doubt this is a gimmick. It is a pattern over 8 years of not managing his finances well.

Either way - let's not delight in the misfortunes of others.
Foreclosure / the current state of the city is no joke.
That's for the people who think foreclosure is good material for a funny joke.
Ha Ha ... until it's you.

I will again point out his forecolsure comes from poor financial management and a decision to leave jobs. I can't feel too bad for him. I will however have a lot of sympathy for people and families who were foreclosed because of medical issues, lost jobs, etc.

[CMooreBMoore]

Seeing a lot of scrutiny in the way of Charles Pugh 'quitting his job before having another lined up'
[be mindful of the fact that I am in no way campaigning for Charles Pugh or anyone else as a candidate, I am just playing devils advocate for a second]

...okay so ... if Charles Pugh had not quit his jobs before campaigning, it would have been a major conflict of interest, seeing as how both of his jobs were in the broadcasting field.
Him securing a comparable job in his skill set to "hold him over" while he ran for office is not really likely.

As for assessing his current expenses / former salary, and questioning the sense behind why he's campaigning for a position that involves a pay cut. That's like asking a Peace Corps member why they left their corporate job to help install plumbing in some village in Guatemala ... not everyone is driven by monetary gain - they may have other motives driving their decision.
This is a tough crowd! Not to say it's not justified - but the PERSONAL judgment is out of hand!

[kraig]

Has anyone stopped to remember that the man is unemployed?
In response to that point - say what you want about how he could
have planned better, thought it out what have you.
The state of our economy is point-blank proof that the unexpected can always occur no matter how much you plan.

Anyhow - try telling me this foreclosure doesn't actually WORK for him on Nov. 4th.
I wouldn't even be surprised if this scenario is a planned gimmick.

Either way - let's not delight in the misfortunes of others.
Foreclosure / the current state of the city is no joke.
That's for the people who think foreclosure is good material for a funny joke.
Ha Ha ... until it's you.

Keeping his situation in the right perspective. For 4 years, he planned on leaving his job that payed him six figures for a job that is going to pay him significantly less. He knew then that he was going to have to go for at least 9 months without a paycheck from Fox 2 or WJLB.

The state of the economy has nothing to do with the situation that he put himself in. His situation is due to bad planning and bad judgement. Which this City has suffered from more than enough.

[gnome]

cMoore,
You would have a point, if Mr. Pugh sold his condo and downsized to a 700 sq ft bungalow, but he didn't do that. He decided to continue his expensive lifestyle while seemingly thinking that everyone else should support him in his decisions. He did that by not paying Asso Dues, taxes and his mortgage.

By bringing up Peace Corp Volunteers vis-a-vis Charles Pugh you try to draw a correlation between the two but fail to support your reasoning for such a tenuous connection. In short, your reasoning is weak, illogical and smelling of santorum.

Support Charles if you want, but try to keep the Peace Corp, the Dalai Lama, the Pope and St Jude out of your argument.

[CMooreBMoore]

So, it's crystal clear to me what side of the fence most people on this thread seem to be on, including you Gnome.

However while you question the reasoning behind my post, and shine light upon the logical fallacies I've apparently committed within the hallowed realm of an internet message board, call equal attention to the lack of sound reasoning made so obvious in the posts prior to mine, arguing the negative in the way of Charles Pugh.

I'm not arguing whether he should get the vote or not.
My grievance lies - again, with people delighting in his misfortune.

I never claimed to know all the details of his financial standing prior to his foreclosure, I just refuse to pass judgment on the man.
Way to try to push someone off of the soapbox.
My statement still stands.

[CMooreBMoore]

"You would have a point, if Mr. Pugh sold his condo and downsized to a 700 sq ft bungalow, but he didn't do that."

...and Gnome - again, no disrespect ... but have you tried selling a piece of expensive property within the Detroit city limits within the last 3 years?
Let's see if someone jumps on it, just because you need to downsize real quick . . . when houses in Rosedale Park are on the market for $35,000 and way below.

[gnome]

CMCM,
Judging a person's individual failings is again not the point.

We are discussing whether a man with a personally disastrous financial past has what it takes to lead a City, a City which is already on its back.

This is a question of leadership and Mr. Pugh's assertion that he is ready for prime time. He is the one who stepped into the limelight and declared himself a role model. He is the one who said to me at the Dyes picnic that Detroit's financial problems stem from a lack of common sense. He is the one that had 11 eviction notices filed in court while holding down two jobs. He is the one who is seeking a job that will not cover his basic housing costs.

This is not about judging a man, it is about putting a man in a position of power who has shown he lacks the financial acumen to hold the position he seeks.

I'm sorry if you think I'm being needlessly harsh on you and Mr. Pugh. I'm sorry you think this is some personal issue. It's not. I just don't want someone handling your wallet, when he can't handle his own.

[gravitymachine]

Just another candidate with no experience in politics thinking that Detroit residents will elect him on NAME RECOGNITION only. I hope Detroiters have learned their lessons and do the right thing and elect qualified people to council.

wait a second, isn't this the exact thing you advocate with your whole "buy american" schtick? you know, not buy the car or product that is most qualified for your uses, but one named as being american made?


on pugh, i'd sooner vote martha reeves back into council, at least there's no worry that she'd end up running the thing with her unqualified self

[65memories]

Be interesting to see know if Charles Pugh's troubles were reflected in this Ch. 7 poll, which saw him drop a little and Gary Brown gain.
http://www.wxyz.com/news/local/story...ZNNRQf8OQ.cspx

[barnesfoto]

QUOTE: "voting Detroiters, after being raped and pillaged by him, put him back in office again!!!"

QUOTE: "Since when has financial responsibility, or responsibility of any kind, been a trait that matters when seeking public office in Detroit???"

See also: 2004 Presidential Election. [[we won't count the first, as it was theft).

Apparently, when Americans reelected a President who screwed the stockholders of Arbusto Oil, they were as stupid as Detroiters.

Now we are all Eye-rack War shareholders.

[CMooreBMoore]

I see where you're coming from Gnome ... however, maybe everyone online, on television, and in person coming out of the woodwork and auditing his personal books, should step up to the plate and run for council, themselves. I am going to call the bluff of people who have so much to say about this foreclosure.

The handle some folks seem to have on CP's numbers, and what he should have done and could have done, would probably serve them well as leaders for Detroit, all jokes aside.

Charles Pugh was a public figure long before his run, opening him up to the scrutiny that comes with the territory - yes. And as someone stated earlier - a man lacking the qualifications should not be elected to office at all, let alone by mere name recognition, provided he/she happens to be famous!

But no one can take away the fact, that he - and a bunch of other folks, including a former pimp, and a whole 'lotta Joe Schmoes from up the street stepped up and ran for office because no one else wanted to!

People speculate so much, and pass so much judgment, while the City continues to be trudged into the ground. And it will continue to be trudged down, as civilians sit on the sidelines, do nothing to change the current conditions, and lambaste the individuals who DO come forth to fill these leadership roles - qualified, or unqualified as the case may be.

Whether they mean to or not - a number of people write, talk, and type in an authoritative voice that alludes to the fact that they themselves, may be better for the job than Charles Pugh, or any of the other people running. Well to that I say shut up, and step up - THEN start talking!

Suffice it to say, t's a sad state of affairs when, in a state full of smart people, and so much talent, taddy shaddy, badly-formatted, 3/4 page resumes riddled with typos, and errors are what you find when you go to read about City Council candidates on Pubilis.org. But hey, the pickin's are slim when the supposed smart people with a better idea on how to run the city are too busy throwing rotten tomatoes to realize that they themselves could help bring Detroit back to it's former glory.

[Retroit]

This debate is a moot point. Detroiters will elect Pugh to an overpaid position as council member where he will be able to continue his extravagant lifestyle [[by Detroit taxpayer standards). Then he will be able to mismanage the finances of the city as well as he has his own.

I feel sorry for the people of Detroit in not having good choices of candidates. And I feel sorry for good candidates in not having a good choice of voters.

[Thames]

Charles Pugh proved he has no integrity when he was involved with Mildred Gaddis and her shenanigans. He went on her TV show as a "guest". He did not reveal that he paid her $1000 to be on her show until he was called out on it. He's a media guy, he KNEW that was wrong and he did it anyway. He didn't confess until he was caught. Now this. He'll be perfect for Detroit City Council.

[1KielsonDrive]

If the guy just has a foreclosure, in this economy it's hard to hold that against him. I might be concerned if he has many other financial questions in his background. If you're rich, you can get out of a lot of stuff and people often say bankruptcies and foreclosures are just part of the price you pay to be successful and wealthy. That's because wealth and money are equated with power and succcess in our culture. No matter how you obtained your wealth and money, in many cases.

[Thames]

If the guy just has a foreclosure, in this economy it's hard to hold that against him. I might be concerned if he has many other financial questions in his background. If you're rich, you can get out of a lot of stuff and people often say bankruptcies and foreclosures are just part of the price you pay to be successful and wealthy. That's because wealth and money are equated with power and succcess in our culture. No matter how you obtained your wealth and money, in many cases.

This economy has nothing to do with him not being able to pay his bills. He quit his job, that's why he can't pay his bills. Elections come up every 4 years. He's a young man. It was not necessary for him to quit his job and default on his mortgage, just so he could run in this particular election. And he does have other financial questions in his background, so you should be concerned.

[MikeM]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20091...-records-show#

Records show Pugh paid $385,000 for the condominium in 2005 and took two loans from Countrywide Mortgage the day he assumed ownership.
One was for $77,000 and another for $308,000, which has jumped today to $331,370 with interest and fees.

So besides being foreclosed on twice, he financed 100% of the purchase price? With at least one variable interest loan to boot? Sounds about right.

[Motor City Sam]

If the guy just has a foreclosure, in this economy it's hard to hold that against him. I might be concerned if he has many other financial questions in his background. If you're rich, you can get out of a lot of stuff and people often say bankruptcies and foreclosures are just part of the price you pay to be successful and wealthy. That's because wealth and money are equated with power and succcess in our culture. No matter how you obtained your wealth and money, in many cases.

You should be concerned. From 2001-2005 he had 11 eviction notices from Trolley Plaza apartments for non payment of rent, when the economy was in much better shape and he was employed. And the Detroit News revealed today that he was facing foreclosure in 2007, too, when he was working both of those jobs and by his own admission bringing in about 200K per year.

If the guy can't pay his bills while making 200K, how can he make it on the 85K that a council member makes? He's already said he's going to try to keep that condo. I'm sorry, but putting him in office would seem to be asking for trouble.

[Ravine]

I haven't made up my mind, yet, on which candidates will be getting my votes. I have some Yes's, some No's, and a pile of Maybe's. I am avidly watching the Thursday night Q&A's on WADL-TV 38, and next week's Part 3 [[of 3) should be very helpful to my 11th Hour decisions.

On the subject of this thread, though, my "take" is that my decision on Pugh will not be influenced by the above-discussed matter. I'm not saying that anyone who feels differently, about that, is wrong, and I am entering no particular judgment regarding the matter itself; I'm just tossing in my .02.

[MaxDetroit]

Watson was crooked enough to scam the City with her $60 a year property tax while her neighbors paid thousands, Kenyatta was foreclosed even with 2 incomes, and now Pugh turns out to be such a supreme airhead he almost makes them look good. The only one on the ballot I would remotely trust is Gary Brown. Thanks to KK and the taxpayers of Detroit he doesn't need a bribe and doesn't even need a job.

[Ravine]

OK, Max, now you're talkin.' I'm not really very interested in his condo issue, but I have to admit... your "supreme airhead" remark?
I don't want to think of him that way, but he sure seems that way.
"Meaning well" is nice-- and more than we could say about some past & present council members-- but it's not enough, that's for sure.

[iheartthed]

Watson was crooked enough to scam the City with her $60 a year property tax while her neighbors paid thousands, Kenyatta was foreclosed even with 2 incomes, and now Pugh turns out to be such a supreme airhead he almost makes them look good. The only one on the ballot I would remotely trust is Gary Brown. Thanks to KK and the taxpayers of Detroit he doesn't need a bribe and doesn't even need a job.

Honestly, I wouldn't even put Kenyatta in the group with Pugh. At least Kenyatta's reasoning for going into foreclosure had some logic behind it [[his house was worth much less than what he owed on the mortgage, so he could not refinance for a better rate). This just sounds like Pugh is extreme careless with his own finances. I don't believe for one second that he's too broke to pay that mortgage right now. And if he is then that's even worse!

[1KielsonDrive]

This economy has nothing to do with him not being able to pay his bills. He quit his job, that's why he can't pay his bills. Elections come up every 4 years. He's a young man. It was not necessary for him to quit his job and default on his mortgage, just so he could run in this particular election. And he does have other financial questions in his background, so you should be concerned.

I guess he's pretty irresponsible. I hadn't followed him too closely, nor had I read much of this link. I would probably question his fitness for office with what's been reported here.