ride the bus? nope

[dcmorrison12]

DC4808 -

I've been reading your posts and it's dawning on me that you're full of sh*t. You're clueless about mass transit? Too much time being spent driving in your hummer, I suppose.

You mentioned that Detroit doesn't have the population density to support mass transit. Well, clearly you know nothing about DTOGS [[Now called Woodward Light Rail). DDOT, along with their consultant URS, have been working tirelessly for THREE years studying the viability of transit in Detroit.

They are applying for a federal grant to help fund the project, called New Starts. This federal grant requires the applicant to do thorough and in depth studies about every aspect of the corridor and transit mode. The guidelines are VERY strict, and it's difficult to become an acceptable candidate.

DTOGS [[Woodward Light Rail), after all of the studies proved to us that the Woodward corridor in Detroit, from downtown to 8 mile can indeed support the operation of LRT.

Detroit is an acceptable candidate for the New Starts program. In fact, the costs of operating the LRT on Woodward in Detroit, per person, is lower than what the federal guidelines list as the maximum cost level.

So, would you still like to continue blabbing about the inability for Detroit to support rapid transit?

[DC48080]

dcmorrison12:


After reading your posts It has dawned on me that you are incapable of accepting that people can hold an opinion contrary to your own. Your defense mechanism is to say that those who don't agree with you are full of excrement. You appear to hold yourself out as an expert but your conduct shows you to be anything but.

Anyhow, I am not going to engage in playground style arguments as so many on are are prone to doing.

Let's see if the Woodward rail system ever does get built. As long as it is entirely privately funded I am all in favor of it.

If it does get built, Detroit will suddenly be Utopia, the crime will decrease dramatically, the drugs will be gone, the homeless will find homes, everyone will find a job, the schools will get better, all the buildings will be occupied, the city will be clean again!

Sorry if I don't get all giddy about the pollyanna fantasies that make some people on here tingle. Doubtless, mass transit is an important component of a successful city. But it is not anywhere near the top of any realistic list of priorities needed to bring Detroit back. There are far more important things that must be taken of first.

[professorscott]

DC48080, this is a logical fallacy:

"If it does get built, Detroit will suddenly be Utopia, the crime will decrease dramatically, the drugs will be gone, the homeless will find homes, everyone will find a job, the schools will get better, all the buildings will be occupied, the city will be clean again!"

The fallacy probably has a name, the really good ones do, but this is what that paragraph says minus the sarcasm, in essence: "Since we can't solve all our problems, we shouldn't bother solving any of our problems!"

I, obviously, disagree.

[DC48080]

DC48080, this is a logical fallacy:

"If it does get built, Detroit will suddenly be Utopia, the crime will decrease dramatically, the drugs will be gone, the homeless will find homes, everyone will find a job, the schools will get better, all the buildings will be occupied, the city will be clean again!"

The fallacy probably has a name, the really good ones do, but this is what that paragraph says minus the sarcasm, in essence: "Since we can't solve all our problems, we shouldn't bother solving any of our problems!"

I, obviously, disagree.

Thank you for doing what many on here are incapable of: replying in a gentlemanly manner without being crude or name-calling.

Perhaps my point has not gotten through. Yes, transit is needed. Nobody denies that. What I have grown tired of is the people on here who point to one single issue [[such as transit) and say that if only this was done everything would be better overnight.

I just think problem solving needs to be undertaken in an organized and prioritized manner.

[iheartthed]

Thank you for doing what many on here are incapable of: replying in a gentlemanly manner without being crude or name-calling.

Perhaps my point has not gotten through. Yes, transit is needed. Nobody denies that. What I have grown tired of is the people on here who point to one single issue [[such as transit) and say that if only this was done everything would be better overnight.

I just think problem solving needs to be undertaken in an organized and prioritized manner.

I don't think anyone here has touted transit as the single panacea to cure all of Detroit's ills. But what the transit advocates are saying is that fixing transit is absolutely necessary if the city is to be revitalized.

[dcmorrison12]

dcmorrison12:


After reading your posts It has dawned on me that you are incapable of accepting that people can hold an opinion contrary to your own. Your defense mechanism is to say that those who don't agree with you are full of excrement. You appear to hold yourself out as an expert but your conduct shows you to be anything but.

Anyhow, I am not going to engage in playground style arguments as so many on are are prone to doing.

Let's see if the Woodward rail system ever does get built. As long as it is entirely privately funded I am all in favor of it.

If it does get built, Detroit will suddenly be Utopia, the crime will decrease dramatically, the drugs will be gone, the homeless will find homes, everyone will find a job, the schools will get better, all the buildings will be occupied, the city will be clean again!

Sorry if I don't get all giddy about the pollyanna fantasies that make some people on here tingle. Doubtless, mass transit is an important component of a successful city. But it is not anywhere near the top of any realistic list of priorities needed to bring Detroit back. There are far more important things that must be taken of first.

You've gone off on a tangent. I've never said that rail will solve all the problems of the city. I'm simply proving to you, with facts, that transit can work in Detroit - Since you've said that it cannot. However, your statement was simply opinion, which has been proven wrong by me stating the facts which don't lie.

You have chosen to word my argument as mere "opinion" however, anyone who decides to read my response can see I have facts backing it up.

The truth is, and you must accept it, is that Detroit - along Woodward from 8 mile to Downtown, can indeed support LRT operation.

THAT is what I was proving to you in my repsonse. I did not spew out opinion, and I've never said that LRT will make Detroit a "Utopia" where the "crime will decrease dramatically, the drugs will be gone, the homeless will find homes, everyone will find a job, the schools will get better, all the buildings will be occupied, the city will be clean again!"

In fact, that is what YOU said. All you have shown there is that you prefer to read what you want to read, based on your predetermined outlook that no facts could ever change.

"Anyhow, I am not going to engage in playground style arguments as so many on are are prone to doing." - I believe putting words in my mouth falls under this category.

[DetroitDad]

Detroit is not alone by any means when it comes to transit cuts.

http://t4america.org/transitcuts/

With public transportation ridership at record highs, transit agencies across the country are facing unprecedented fiscal crises in this economic downturn, with many considering layoffs, service cuts and fare hikes that are hitting at the worst possible time.

Incredibly, these record ridership numbers are being met with one trend at transit agencies from coast to coast: Service cuts, layoffs, and fare increases.

In America we invested so much in automobiles and automobile infrastructure, that we just refuse to let go and stop trying to sustain the unsustainable, no matter how expensive or destructive it is. What is more, mass transit seems to be viewed as a step backward around here, rather than the reality of it being the way forward.

Now, I think the auto is on the way out, as it depends on a huge majority of the population being able and willing to drive. What happens when even 5%-10% of population cannot drive or doesn't own a car, yet still has their tax dollars going towards roads instead of mass transit?

[umtim]

I take the bus from the Campus Martiu area to the Receiving hospital every day. It takes me about 9 minutes to get to work. Busses come every 8 minutes or so.
I moved in here to be close to where I work and to the ball parks and the Joe for Hockey games. I like walking down to the Fox to see Bob Dylan. Over to Greektown to get some yummies from Astoria.
My wife totalled the car a month ago and haven't found a reason to get a new one. So I'll try it with no car for a while. All about chosing where you live to make things work for you.
I've taken Amtrak to a Michigan Football game and rented a car to go out there also.
I think the bus system is pretty good in Detroit. I just need to plan things out.

[detroitsgwenivere]

I take the bus from the Campus Martiu area to the Receiving hospital every day. It takes me about 9 minutes to get to work. Busses come every 8 minutes or so.
I moved in here to be close to where I work and to the ball parks and the Joe for Hockey games. I like walking down to the Fox to see Bob Dylan. Over to Greektown to get some yummies from Astoria.
My wife totalled the car a month ago and haven't found a reason to get a new one. So I'll try it with no car for a while. All about chosing where you live to make things work for you.
I've taken Amtrak to a Michigan Football game and rented a car to go out there also.
I think the bus system is pretty good in Detroit. I just need to plan things out.

I agree. Most times I get to my destination in a very reasonable time, without many hassles. Usually it takes a little planning ahead, especially if I am going somewhere unfamiliar, but bussing was much easier once i got used to it, just like everything else in life.

[DetroitDad]

I really can't wait until we start getting real transit, such as the light rail lines on Woodward, so that we can move out of the CBD. I like it down here, but it is a headache when to live in a high rise when you have children, and the CBD only really has high rises.

Things might end up slowing down in the CBD while it attracts more residents and the areas in the Grand Loop reactivate and catch up. Some would rather live near the CBD as an amenity, than in it, especially in South Corktown, Brush/Cass Park, and the Lafayette Park and Eastern Market, as all of those places are sandwiched in between other "anchors" that people might enjoy living near.

[umtim]

I think trying to do the bus when you are not near bus routes is like trying to put a size 12 foot in a size 8 shoe. Doesn't work. Fact is that there is a bus system here. It actually works pretty well if you live close to the hubs. I live downtown and can get on the Mich ave, gratiot, woodward and jefferson buses without going more than two blocks. It is a good system for me. If you live a block or two off any of these roads there are a lot of places you can get to without a car. To me that represents good service. On the other hand if you wish to live off the beaten path the bus will not serve you well. I'm renting and have few belongings and am free to move if where I live is inconvenient. If you are loaded down with stuff and own a home, its another story.
And while there are a lot of places you can get to, it is not easy to get everywhere if time is a big issue for you. If you are going to read a book as you travel it might not matter. I actually like the challenge of finding how to get from here to there without a car.
If you are looking for how the bus will not serve you, evidence will present itself. If you are looking for how it can be used to your advantage, you can find evidence for that too.

[DetroitDad]

Since we agree that

*Detroit is severely under-retailed [[even poor people need to buy groceries and clothes, you know)

*there is a dearth of jobs in the core city of the region

*over 300,000 people in Detroit have no access to an automobile

would it not follow that some sort of improvement needs to be made to the transit system?

Just a quick correction, Detroit is not under retailed, since you can get lower income individuals to travel into upper income areas, but not the reverse. Poor folk will also travel a little bit further for deals, and rich people may/will not [[especially if the area isn't a place they care to venture in).

[Diehard]

"Detroit will never get mass transit because the city sucks and nobody wants to go there."
"We need mass transit to get the city back to not sucking again."

Geez, people, this is the classic chicken-or-egg situation. Isn't that obvious?

If the bus system works for you, great. I use it frequently, but I still need to drive some places. Big deal. I think a lot of people operate like that. It doesn't make either cars or buses evil.
If taking the bus doesn't work for you because of your schedule or because you live in the boonies, go ahead and drive, but for pete's sake quit ragging on something that a lot of other people depend on.
Waiting for buses in the cold or sitting next to a smelly stranger sucks. So does getting stuck in a massive backup on 696 or losing a tire to a pothole.

[iddude313]

So i decided to take the bus to work this morning as my car is in the shop.
I live in midtown and was going to Jefferson near Grosse Pointe.
I got on the 53 Woodward inbound bus @ 10:30am-ish.
I got off @ the Transit Center about 10:45.
The Jefferson 25 outbound did not show up until 11:45am!!
wtf!! ridiculous!
I'm glad my car is fixed now.

[Russix]

What is more ridiculous is that the 610/615 goes directly from midtown to Jefferson near Grosse Pointe[[AKA City Limits) in 33 minutes.