The future of East English Village

[cycledetroit]

We went on the EEV home tour last weekend and we were VERY impressed. We are seriously considering buying a house there. Our only concern is the amount of empty homes. It seems like there are at least a couple houses on every block boarded up or for sale. I know we cant predict the future.. but what direction do you see EEV going in. We lived in Hamtramck and we now are in Corktown, and we have seen the difference in neighborhoods made up of mostly renters vs. owners. I know all areas of Detroit have crime, we are dealing with an increase in corktown lately, how is crime in EEV? Where do you see EEV in 5 years???

Thanks so much!

[Lorax]

My sister lived on Bishop near Waveney for years, and sold over 12 years ago and moved to Grosse Pointe Woods near Mack Ave.

She just told me the other day that crime is now creeping across Mack into GPW from that mall on the corner of Moross and Mack.

There have been several incidents in the last couple of months right within her couple of blocks where people have been mugged, bicycles stolen from people jumping out of bushes at dusk and after dark.

She's only a few houses off Mack, and has had a security system installed, new windows, and keeps lights on outside at night.

Her friends who stayed in EEV after she left, have all left now. Not if that's any indication, but many homes are rented in that area now, as they are in Harper Woods, which is also experiencing a dramatic drop in home prices and rising crime rates.

She wouldn't return, and didn't have much hope that the area would get better unless it was broken off from Detroit and became an autonomous city.

[kathy2trips]

I grew up there and I can attest to the quality of homes available. In the 50s, when that area was being developed, you could just buy a lot and build whatever house you wanted. No cookie cutter type construction like now. My dad was a bricklayer/carpenter and built a house there for his new in-laws. [[Lucky them!) It had all these great floating doors, storage up the kazoo, completely finished basement with full kitchen and bath plus a "root cellar" and a giant laundry room big enough to have an old Philco washing machine, complete with wringer and many tubs...and you could hang your wash on rainy days in there too! I dated a guy who lived a few blocks from there in a colonial. The fireplace inside was phenom! There was a pride in workmanship and a lot of immigrant craftspeople still around then, that could really turn out some fine homes.

It would certainly be worth researching. Crime stats are by neighborhood should be reasonably easy to find on line.

[crawford]

IMO, East English Village is not safe, and should not be considered if one has other options.

Crime has been drifting over across Mack from EEV for the last couple of years, and this is a major concern in these portions of the Pointes. I can't imagine how it is on the other side of Mack, where there's basically no police force to respond to incidents.

EEV still has many very beautiful homes and nice-looking blocks, but it does not come close to meeting my minimal standards of safety and security. You may have different standards.

[stonechipped]

IMO, East English Village is not safe, and should not be considered if one has other options.

Crime has been drifting over across Mack from EEV for the last couple of years, and this is a major concern in these portions of the Pointes. I can't imagine how it is on the other side of Mack, where there's basically no police force to respond to incidents.

EEV still has many very beautiful homes and nice-looking blocks, but it does not come close to meeting my minimal standards of safety and security. You may have different standards.

No police protection beware

[Eastside]

No police protection beware

This statement is totally wrong. EEV is well patrolled and police response is great. I've lived in this neighborhood for over 20-years so I'm speaking from first hand experience.

[cycledetroit]

Living in Detroit and dealing with crime come hand in hand if you ask me. Not just Detroit, but all major cities. One reason we started looking on the other side of Mack, in GPP is because every house we saw in EEV had been stripped in some sense. One house we were really interested in, was broken into 3 times over the week of us considering it. The water damage from pulling out the plumbing and replacing all the windows on the main floor was too much work for us. Also, after you pay for all the repairs to a house in EEV, you could have bought in GGP. Not one house in GPP we saw had any evidence of a break in. You can buy in GPP for under 100,000.. most houses in EEV that don't need work are all over 100,000. The taxes on the house in EEV we were looking at were going to be around 5000 a year!!! The house in GPP - 2000 a year!

[softailrider]

This statement is totally wrong. EEV is well patrolled and police response is great. I've lived in this neighborhood for over 20-years so I'm speaking from first hand experience.

If police response is so great, then why are the vacant houses in the area mostly stripped? I'm sure residents of the area called for police when scrappers were present. There's vacant houses in every city, yet the only stripped ones I see are in the COD. Is police respone great except for calls regarding people scrapping vacant houses ? Very rare to see a stripped house in the northern suburbs.

[Eastside]

If police response is so great, then why are the vacant houses in the area mostly stripped? I'm sure residents of the area called for police when scrappers were present. There's vacant houses in every city, yet the only stripped ones I see are in the COD. Is police respone great except for calls regarding people scrapping vacant houses ? Very rare to see a stripped house in the northern suburbs.

I don't know the answer to your question about the "houses in the area mostly stripped". Plus, what does "mostly stripped" mean? The few empty homes I've been in were in remarkably good shape, plumbing, furnaces, A/C units in place, oak fireplace mantels still there, original windows and doors in place. I've seen plaster damage and warped floors due to the cold perhaps.

I do know when I have called the Detroit Police on scrappers they have arrived within minutes.

I can't comment on stripped houses in the norther suburbs. I don't live there.

[Diehard]

If police response is so great, then why are the vacant houses in the area mostly stripped? I'm sure residents of the area called for police when scrappers were present. There's vacant houses in every city, yet the only stripped ones I see are in the COD. Is police respone great except for calls regarding people scrapping vacant houses ? Very rare to see a stripped house in the northern suburbs.

Northern suburbs? Like what, Lake Orion?
Are you comparing a dense, urban 100-year-old neighborhood to places that were cornfields 5-10 years ago and making the smug observation that fewer vacant houses have been vandalized out in the cornfields? Wow.
For what it's worth, I know of EEV residents who have confronted would-be scrappers in person and told them to get the hell out of the neighborhood.

[Diehard]

No police protection beware

Where did you hear this? I've always had quick and professional police response in EEV.

[7051]

Twoblocksaway,

I specifically said NEW construction [[usually in a newer city/township) and the first owner/occupant, on a non-foreclosure sale [[market value). Is the house you purchased new construction, never had an owner, not a forclosure sale[[full market value)? This type of sale value is considered "true cash value" and as such, 50% of this will generally be the new SEV.

Cycle,

How exactly did you determine that the EEV house would have a $5,000 tax bill? Was it the MLS listing? This is very inaccurate as it usually doesn't include the homestead rate if its a foreclosure and the bank has had the property awhile, it usually doesn't include the NEZ, and it may include old water bills and late fees. The most accurate way to determine future tax is to spend the $2.00 per search and go to the city's website and look at taxable value, SEV, etc.[[it shows 2 years, thus one can see if there is a downward trend as is the case now). This will also show you the current and past year's tax bill and any fees[[water, late fees, interest).

Then use the homestead, NEZ tax rate of 51 mills X the SEV as the SEV will be your new taxable value.This will be your tax bill in the upcoming year. Further reductions in future bills are possible by appealing your SEV based on comparable sales in the months of Oct 1-Dec 31 in the previous year before the assessment[[properties as close to Dec 31 should be used when appealing as this is "tax day" and the assessor has used a 2 year sales study which runs March to March of  the 2 years previousthe assessment year).Therefore, the assessors comps/sales data is behind by 6 months to 2 years and 6 months. 2010 assessment received next March, one should use sales values from comp properties that sold Oct1-Dec 31 2009 as the assessor is using sales data from March 2007 to March 2009 to justify his assessment.

http://www.michiganpropertytax.com/l....com/links.htm


I have found that in the Univ. Dist., the MLS listing is showing 6k-11k for prop taxes.Further research has show that homestead, NEZ and latefees/water bills, and actual SEV numbers from the city website have brought them down to 3,500 to 6,000. Several new buyer tax appeals that I have seen have brought these bills down to 2,500 to 5,000.

[DetJules]

Greetings all - if you don't recognize the name...it's because I haven't posted in years - was on again/off again in the very early days of this forum. Saw this entry on EEV, where I live - so talk about hitting home - I had to get back in the game!

I've been a resident for 12 years - bought when I was 28...so do the math - no wait, don't! No one can speak for an entire neighborhood, we can just hand out glimpses of what life is like in our particular corner. I for one, adore my corner - not perfect, but I don't believe perfect exists.

Is crime worse in this recession? yes, I feel it is....but that's because it affected me for the first time in 12 years last spring - garage break-in. But come to talking to some neighbors...I apparently missed the news that 7 years ago we went through a rash of garage thefts...we just didn't do a good job communicating. I probably would have taken the time to better secure that side door! It always feels worse when it affects us personally. But the positive...

Police - never seen better response or more direct presence in all my years here as I have in 2009. We had a BIG issue with the residents of a house nearby. 3 raids, they're gone now, thanks to DPD.

Neighborhood association - never been stronger. They have the neighborhood mapped out. Empty house? they know who owns it, who takes care of it, or doesn't take care of it. Head to one of our monthly meetings - the participation makes me proud to be a resident, proud to be fighting for the survival of a truly diverse community.

Never seen so many empty homes in the neighborhood, but when I discuss this with friends at work [[all my coworkers live in the suburbs) instead of 'why don't you just get out of that place' I get 'Our neighborhood too!'.

p.s. I saw a post that seemed to imply that it was shame to have to add motion lights, alarm system etc.. True - and there was a time when folks thought it was a shame to have to lock the doors.... unfortunately this is SOP in Detroit and the burbs. This should have been done upon moving in along with adding glass block to the basement windows.

It really is true - if Detroit falls, so do our suburbs. If I can't live and play in the city of Detroit - I'm not moving to our burbs. I'm leaving Michigan.

[2blocksaway]

Easy Crawford,

I live in G.P.P. a block off Mack and I am not concerned AT ALL about living near E.E.V. Mack is heavily patrolled by Detroit and Grosse Pointe Police.

As far as police response in that Part of Detroit. I witnessed a relatively minor accident around Warren and Cadieux called 911, and at least 3 D.P.D. cars were there in less than 5 minutes.

The ideal of E.E.V. breaking off in to it's own city is intriguing and would probably be for the best.

[Gistok]

Easy Crawford,

The ideal of E.E.V. breaking off in to it's own city is intriguing and would probably be for the best.

2blocksaway.... they can take "Cornerstone Village" [[the area next door from Cadieux to Moross) with it! That area is also still nice, although as elsewhere... lots of foreclosed houses.

Lorax, the Pointe Plaza Shopping Center has nothing at all to do with crime in the Pointes. It may filter in from Detroit, but that center is very nice, and has a nice mix of stores.... including a Buddy's and a Barnes & Noble that I was just at tonight.

[turkeycall]

Gistock: "the Pointe Plaza Shopping Center has nothing at all to do with crime in the Pointes. It may filter in from Detroit, but that center is very nice, and has a nice mix of stores.... including a Buddy's and a Barnes & Noble that I was just at tonight."

I haven't been to my old home neighborhood [Farmbrook between Southampton and Frankfort] in a lot of years. The Seven-Mack shopping center was a big deal in the 50s and 60s, and even into the mid-70s.

I know Saint John's took over a whole lot of space when it was expanded. But what's there now? Used to be an A&P, Wrigley's, Kresge's, Woolworth's, Winkelman's [[my wife's favorite), a couple of shoe stores, Penny's, the Woods Theater, and Blazo's.

I remember - way back when - there were a couple of "old ladies" who would walk from Farmbrook to Seven-Mack, toting their little two-wheeled carts behind them. They would return with their baskets full of groceries. They'd take Frankfort, straight through Balduck Park, and end up on a street that was a straight shot to the A&P.

[sumas]

I live in EEV and have great pride in this neighborhood. Having been here since 1965 I have witnessed its up and downs. I've never seen it look better. Crime is low.

I suggest you call our neighborhood President Bill Barlage for real facts. We do not have lotes of rentals. Of course, there is concern regarding foreclosed homes. Two years ago, we had 13 empty houses on our block. All have sold and new neighbors having bought at bargain prices have put money into really nice upgrades.

At the insistance of our neighborhood group, all vacant homes are getting grass cut and snow removed so there really are not any eyesores. We patrol Our EMMA [[vacant) homes to remove litter. We get our snow plowed, curbside recycling, great diversity, when the Ash trees died they were removed and new tree stock planted. I imagine that any home purchase these days is a bit of a gamble. If you want a Detroit residence I say take advantage of the unusually low prices and you will probably win. Don't forget that EEV is tax abated. If I had a caution as to anything schools are a bit of an issue.

[Lorax]

Agreed- the homes and the association are super, and deserve much credit for keeping the area as physically nice as it is, and those who have made a commitment to stay are the reasons why.

As to the old 7-Mack Center- Turkeycall, thanks for the rundown of stores there! Remember how the Kresge [[or was it Woolworth's) had wooden floors? I remember how the parakeets would kick out their seeds on the wood floor, and you'd have to step in it walking by.

There was a super mid-century modern Sander's there as well with ancient waitresses in white uniforms with hats. I will never forget the George Nelson ball clock still working, plugged in on the stainless work station wall.

Also Kay Annis Frus was there for years as well.

Amazing what comes back to mind with such a trigger! Thanks.

There is a crime problem, as my sister knows of a couple of people accosted at the Pointe Plaza, as well as robberies and a car jacking at the CVS across the street where the Golden Lion used to be.

[softailrider]

Those empty houses you see have all been stripped, If the price of real estate in the area increases, those places may come back to life. If not, you'll be seeing vacant lots for a long time.

[EastSider]

Those empty houses you see have all been stripped, If the price of real estate in the area increases, those places may come back to life. If not, you'll be seeing vacant lots for a long time.

I live in EEV, and I'd like you to offer some sort of proof that "all of those houses have been stripped." We've got two houses on our block that have been vacated, and there's a few of us who keep up the exterior, mowing the lawn, shoveling snow and all that to make sure the area still looks nice.

There are two online sources for crime stats.

http://detroit.mi.crimeviewcommunity.com/ is the official source from the DPD.

http://www.wikistreetwatch.com/ is a user-generated source.

The official stats are up-to-date, but they're usually within 2 weeks. For all the knocks against DPD stats, the official listing is an accurate presentation of my perception of the neighborhood. Some property crime, but I still let my kids play at the playground by themselves with no worries.

[Eastside]

I agree with sumas, check the facts.

Someone wrote, "Those empty houses you see have all been stripped, If the price of real estate in the area increases, those places may come back to life. If not, you'll be seeing vacant lots for a long time."

That is not totally correct. Sure, homes have been stripped in EEV as they have been in other Detroit and non-Detroit communities. But, not all EEV abandoned have been stripped as mentioned. Residents of this neighborhood care about the neighborhood, they maintain the vacant homes, watch them for suspicious activity and call the police if someone tries to break in. Believe it or not the Detroit police DO respond. The community organization works tirelessly with police and city officials to make sure the neighborhood is safe, building codes are enforced and they ticket those homeowners that do not maintain their property.

What does the future hold for EEV? Who knows? I do know that EEV has experienced its ups and downs like many Detroit neighborhoods. As a long time resident [[20+ years), I can tell you it is still one of the most stable and well maintained neighborhoods in the city. I believe home foreclosures have slowed significantly and families are now buying the beautiful, one of a kind foreclosed homes at incredible prices. Would I recommend the EEV to others? Without a doubt!

[eastdetroit48224]

The future of EEV as well as the other parts of Detroit is dependent on the people of Detroit and Southeast MICHIGAN! Yes it's easy to throw stones, or cast doubt against Detroit ever coming back. But if the negativity against Detroit is not abolished, then yes it will fail as a city and a region.

WAKE UP!

To those who are sitting in the suburbs, I have been reading the papers and watching the news. How upset were those in Livonia when you woke up and found your tires stolen off your cars in the night! OMG how can that happen in Livonia??? And to those of you in Grosse Paradise... OMG theves are throwing bricks through your back window to rob your houses?? and OMG in Grosse Paradise... How shocked you were about all of the break ins in your Wisteria Lane? Only to find out it was one of your own kids doing it for his drug problems? OMG is Grosse Paradise turning into DETROIT POINTE?

And how many of you from Clinton Township, Harrison Township, Rochester and other suburbs try to explain to someone where your city's are and your only response can be..... NEAR DETROIT. How much better would it sound to say you live in a suburb of Detroit if Detroit was a great city like Chicago? Well only you can make it a great city again. When you point your finger, 4 other fingers are pointing back at yourself.

The Point is: Detroit is only going to come back if we all help. This is your city also, take pride! Your property values are dependent on the future of Detroit also.

[Mackinaw]

Yo Crawford, on what do you base your opinion?

I recommend EEV, particularly Bishop and Kensington close to Mack Ave.

[jt1]

This thread is a humorous and sad microcosm of everything that is wrong with this forum and SE Michigan. Once the questions was asked we received the canned 'too dangerous', 'houses are falling apart/being stripped' crap.

Once some actual residents of the community stated otherwise the people that were talking out of their behinds ran off.

I'm sure there will be additional posts accusing the residents of EEV of being blinded by their cheerleading or having no perspective [[probably an accusation that they have never lived elsewhere so they can't appreciate what a nice community is).

[iheartthed]

LOL @ the armchair EEV residents who don't live within 500 miles of the neighborhood.