The future of East English Village

**jt1** · October-18-09, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Lorax

It took me a while to find it, but here's the most comprehensive stats up to 2007 I can find on Grosse Pointe Woods:

Grosse Pointe Woods City, Michigan Crime Type2001200220032004200520062007Murdern/a 0 0 0 0 0 0 per 100,000n/a 0 0 0 0 0 0 Rapen/a 0 0 0 0 1 2 per 100,000n/a 0 0 0 0 6 13 Robberyn/a 5 3 13 4 4 6 per 100,000n/a 29 18 78 24 25 38 Assaultn/a 11 5 3 4 16 15 per 100,000n/a 64 29 18 24 98 94 Burglaryn/a 30 30 11 22 36 29 per 100,000n/a 174 177 66 133 221 181 Larceny Theftn/a 216 193 161 199 219 214 per 100,000n/a 1,251 1,136 960 1,202 1,346 1,338 Vehicle Theftn/a 19 31 13 33 54 42 per 100,000n/a 110 183 78 199 332 263 Arsonn/a 4 0 0 0 1 0 per 100,000n/a 23 0 0 0 6 0 City Melt Violent Crime Index
[[U.S. Average = 39.7)n/a 4.0 2.0 4.0 2.0 5.3 5.8 City Melt Property Crime Index
[[U.S. Average = 276.8)n/a 67.3 63.5 46.3 63.5 77.5 71.3 City Melt Crime Index
[[U.S. Average = 158.2)n/a 35.6 32.8 25.1 32.8 41.4 38.5

Appreciate it - i searched for awhiel but had no success.

**aoife** · October-19-09, 06:45 AM

It is true that crime on the Grosse Pointe side[[s) of Mack has been going up pretty fast in the last few months [[I live a block off Mack)- mostly break-ins, and a few muggings. That being said, I don't see how it has anything to do with the 7 & Mack mall or EEV in general. Where is the connection? I am at 7 & Mack all the time and I never see anything that would even raise the slightest suspicion. I ride my bike through EEV frequently to visit friends and have never had a problem.

When the police catch people who have committed crimes and it is reported in the our "crime bulletin" it simply says gives the city they are from, not the neighborhood. Why would they have be from EEV? Blaming a neighborhood based on its proximity alone is ridiculous.

**MikeM** · October-19-09, 07:21 AM

I can't tell if crime is on the increase in the Grosse Pointes; it may be more a matter of perception than fact. There was an attempted armed robbery on the street next to me last week, so I feel crime is increasing. But then a friend of mine was robbed at gunpoint on the same street 25 years ago. Another friend bought a forecloseure in the Farms this summer, then at closing discovered the plumbing had been stripped. On my block there was a rash of robberies in the late 1970s but there's been nothing since. Even if there is an increase, most of the crime in the area is more like this incident from earlier this summer:

http://danitime.blogspot.com/2009/06...-is-dance.html

Lorax · October-19-09, 08:05 AM

This is why I was taken aback at the attack from one poster saying my sister and I are liars about what is being experienced in day to day living.

There is no direct correlation between EEV and crime in Grosse Pointe as far as I know, but suffice to say, petty crimes are on the rise in GPW and GP City, and it's fair to say it's because of it's proximity to Detroit in general. There was one incident my sister remembers recently where two teens from Eastpointe were mugging people at Mack/Moross area as well.

No one is blaming EEV. But it's time to start cracking down on this, and the neighbors in EEV are doing a super job of preserving their neighborhood under the circumstances. Grosse Pointe is also vigilant when it comes to crime, and will preserve itself no doubt into the future as well.

My tenants are vigilant at monitoring the goings on, and have even alerted me to foreclosed homes I could either buy or send along to another investor or individual wanting to buy it. Good news, is the few I have been told about were already under contract by the time I could take a look at them.

EastSider · October-19-09, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitDad

The thing that gets me is I-94, which is a mess at rush hour. If you need to get to the West side, Midtown, or Downtown for work, I don't see how you could live on the East side.

Harper, Mack, Gratiot, Warren, Forest, Jefferson...

lots of different options to get to where you're going if the freeway's a mess.

**milesdriven** · October-19-09, 09:58 AM

I lived near the Harper/Chester split until I moved to Toledo a year ago, and I never had any problems. I never heard any gunshots, unlike when I lived in SW Detroit or the Cass Corridor. Even left the lawnmower sitting on the side of the house for weeks at a time [[granted, it was a POS mower that probably wouldn't get $10 at a garage sale). I loved being able to walk to Cal's, Elams, Nikki's place, and Geneva's, amongst other places. The enourmous yard was also a huge plus [[except when I had to mow it).

Still, being in the city limits means you have to be your own police force. I had a big dog, which worked quite well, as did most of my neighbors. Also, trash was an issue. We were downwind from the Morang-Chester clinic, and when I found a wrapper for a Chlamydia test kit in my backyard while playing with my daughter I wanted to vomit. I got very irritated after spending hours cleaning up my yard, the alley, and the adjoining parking lots when it was all strewn with trash a day later.

**cycledetroit** · October-25-09, 01:23 PM

We are putting in our bid today! Keeping our fingers crossed!!!

**Eastside** · October-25-09, 05:59 PM

Sweet!

What street did you find a home on?

**skyl4rk** · October-25-09, 06:40 PM

good luck!

**cycledetroit** · October-26-09, 08:20 PM

WE DIDNT GET IT! someone outbid us!

maybe the next house!

**Eastside** · October-27-09, 08:13 AM

That's too bad...

There is a beautiful house on Yorkshire near Mack that is going up auction very soon. If interested, take a drive by and check it out. I believe it's between Wallingford and Rosewood on the west side of the street.

**kryptonite** · October-27-09, 09:14 AM

Crawford your analysis is way too negative. Detroit is definitely improving, particularly Downtown, Midtown, Cass Corridor and Corktown. maybe include SW Detroit and the entire eastside riverfront. but your pessimism could be related to our very down economy.

If you go Downtown or to Eastern market any weekend, particularly in the summer, there will be big crowds. I have read articles in the NYTimes and Miami papers that have stated Detroit is becoming a nice tourist destination. this is nothing new, it started several years ago and continues to be the case.

There is a definite residential recovery in Cass Corridor, Midtown and east riverfront areas. I agree with you that many neighborhoods are still declining but the future is looking better. If it weren't for the current recession the momentum of the recovery would be awesome. Will the recovery spill over to neighborhoods like EEV? Quite possibly, it already has in Cass Corridor, WSU area, Brush Park, etc.

**ordinary** · October-27-09, 12:48 PM

Could somebody here tell me what are the boundaries of East English Village.

**eastdetroit48224** · October-27-09, 12:55 PM

East English Village is between Cadieux and Outer Drive/Whittier, Harper and Mack. The website is www.eastenglishvillage.org for further information

mrrichard · October-28-09, 09:20 AM

The future is here, not too far away Mack /Alter fires.
Many of the crimes reported in GP are people coming from Detroit if
you read the crime reports. How many years will it take to go to complete crap?15 - 30, 40??
http://detroitnews.com/article/20091...RO01/910280376

**ordinary** · October-28-09, 11:22 AM

eastdetroit48224,
Thanks for the information. I grew up on Hereford. My mom lives there and it's hard to say if it's holding up okay. I noticed a couple of weeks ago that there were two cars on blocks sitting there on the street. The lug nuts were still lying on the street. There were some crazy renters out and about screaming and yelling at 3 a.m.

EastSider · November-01-09, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by cycledetroit

WE DIDNT GET IT! someone outbid us!

maybe the next house!

3900 Kensington is for sale. I noticed the sign last night trick-or-treating with the kids, but I didn't ask for details.

**cycledetroit** · November-01-09, 11:25 AM

We looked at many houses in EEV over the last couple weeks, we are now looking in Grosse Pointe Park. As much as I love the city and living in Detroit, financially it is a better decision. The taxes in the Park are half of what they are in EEV and the schools are good. It is amazing to me that we cannot afford to buy in Corktown, taxes are too high in EEV, but we can live in Grosse Pointe!
I guess this is a perfect example of why people are not buying in the city.

Depressing

**Jarvis** · November-01-09, 12:39 PM

I remember when crime was unheard of in Harper Woods when growing up in Detroit near Moross and Chandler Park Dr. in the 70's and 80's. Then Detroit got rid of residency and all the whites moved out in the 90's, which led to whites moving out of Harper Woods which led to a rise in crime, hmmm go figure.

stinkbug · November-01-09, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by cycledetroit

We looked at many houses in EEV over the last couple weeks, we are now looking in Grosse Pointe Park. As much as I love the city and living in Detroit, financially it is a better decision. The taxes in the Park are half of what they are in EEV and the schools are good. It is amazing to me that we cannot afford to buy in Corktown, taxes are too high in EEV, but we can live in Grosse Pointe!
I guess this is a perfect example of why people are not buying in the city.

Depressing

Herein lies the problem. It doesn't make practical sense to live in the city - even one of the only livable neighborhoods. What city council member, or candidate, for that matter, has addressed this?
City Council sends a couple kids to college in Cuba, renames streets that are too white-sounding, sets up an African Town in an already functioning business district, and bitches about the state screwing up the schools a decade ago, but doesn't address this most basic, utilitarian concern, and so the City loses yet another dedicated residents . A bunch of fucking idiots, City government.

**7051** · November-01-09, 08:52 PM

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/tr...T_279573_7.pdf

Cycle,

GPP tax mills are 44 mill, Detroit is 65 mills. EEV and all of the better neighborhoods in the city have the NEZ which will reduce your mills [[county and city) to 51 for 15 years. The NEZ cuts the city operating mills by half [[18 to 9) and the county operating mills by half [[9 to 4.5). These result in the reduction to aprox 51 mills for EEV. The NEZ is a simple 1 page form filed downtown along with a copy of your d.l. and homestead affidavit.

51 mills X taxable value in EEV vs. 44 mills X taxable value in GPP?

The property in EEV will definitely have a much lower tax bill due to much lower taxable value [[a tax appeal in either city is a must in the spring after one purchases due to the low selling price vs. the taxable value currently on a property at the time of purchase).

I have owned in the Univ. Distict [[purchased 10 years ago) and my total annual tax bill is $4,600 with NEZ and it should drop this spring to about $3,950 [[which compared to houses I looked at in Pleasant Ridge and GPP 10 years ago and their current tax bills, I'd be at about $6,900 to $10,200 respectively).

Please use apples to apples comparisons [[similiar sq. footage and decade of building 1920/30's to 1920/30's) when comparing properties and their taxable values.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/tr...T_279573_7.pdf

2blocksaway · November-01-09, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by 7051

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/tr...T_279573_7.pdf

Cycle,

GPP tax mills are 44 mill, Detroit is 65 mills. EEV and all of the better neighborhoods in the city have the NEZ which will reduce your mills [[county and city) to 51 for 15 years. The NEZ cuts the city operating mills by half [[18 to 9) and the county operating mills by half [[9 to 4.5). These result in the reduction to aprox 51 mills for EEV. The NEZ is a simple 1 page form filed downtown along with a copy of your d.l. and homestead affidavit.

51 mills X taxable value in EEV vs. 44 mills X taxable value in GPP?

The property in EEV will definitely have a much lower tax bill due to much lower taxable value [[a tax appeal in either city is a must in the spring after one purchases due to the low selling price vs. the taxable value currently on a property at the time of purchase).

I have owned in the Univ. Distict [[purchased 10 years ago) and my total annual tax bill is $4,600 with NEZ and it should drop this spring to about $3,950 [[which compared to houses I looked at in Pleasant Ridge and GPP 10 years ago and their current tax bills, I'd be at about $6,900 to $10,200 respectively).

Please use apples to apples comparisons [[similiar sq. footage and decade of building 1920/30's to 1920/30's) when comparing properties and their taxable values.

You aren't exactly comparing apples to apples either. Detroit hasn't been all that vigilant about lowering taxable values the past few years and you are also benefiting because you have lived in your house so long.

Your taxable and assessed values are probably still different. If someone were to buy your house their tax bill would be pretty high even though they probably would have paid much less than you did 10 years ago. It would then be up to them to fight the city and then the state to lower their taxable value.

Also, what kind of hit will you take after those 15 years are up? Is if 15 years from the date you close or 15 years from the date the act was passed?

**7051** · November-02-09, 02:57 AM

Property Class:448Assessed Value:$81,517School District:D - DETROIT SCHOOLSTaxable Value:$81,517State Equalized Value:$81,517Map #27DISTRICT10Date of Last Name Chg:02/24/2007I have not filed an appeal the last year [[or ever on this house)and sev/assessed dropped the past year. It dropped from 94k[[10 year high) to 81k. I expect it to drop to about 72k-74k this year. In fact, SEV/assessed matched my taxable value this past year [[81k) and, due to state tax law [[taxable value cannot be higher than SEV/assessed), will now drag down actual taxable value in the upcoming year when it declines to 72-74k. My upcoming tax bill should be about approx. $3,700 [[51mills x 72-73).

The NEZ is good for 15 years from when you file [[in my case 2007). In fact, during years 13 and 14 it drops the 2 operating millages [[city and county) by 75% and a 100% drop in year 15. The NEZ is also transferable to the next owner and continues until it expires from the original date[[ 2007 + 15 years for me or the next owner).

This existing construction NEZ applies to buyers who bought after early 1997. It also applies to only the structure value due to the way the law was written at the state level. So I do pay a couple extra dollars on my separate $2,000 land value tax bill [[$100).

A brief history of my prop. taxes. ----------------
Paid $190k in Jan 1998. Old owner paying about $2,700 on 39k taxable value.
After first year, I get the bump to $3,450 on 50k taxable/new capped value. Over the next 8 years Proposal A [[inflationary increase only of taxable value each year) and 2-3 new mills[[new taxes) brings my tax bill to about $5,400 and a taxable value of 81K. The SEV gets to about 95k and this multiplied by the non-NEZ city/county mills of 64 would put someone who was buying my house two years ago pre NEZ at $6,200. I then file the NEZ, mills drop to 51 from 64 and last year my sev/assessed falls[[due to lowered assessments/prop values)to 81k and exactly equals my taxable at 81k. Next year-another assessed value drop&taxable value drop=big savings. A current buyer would pay the same bill I am paying due to SEV/assessed being same as current taxable value. He should pay even less if he does a well researched tax appeal his first year in the home [[the city will conservatively drop him another 10k in taxable value based on [[its going to be low!)purchase price[[maybe more if you speak the assessor's language)-and then there is even the appeal option of the state tax tribunal[[I'd just take the 10k drop and be done).
Even if he did pay a higher price of say $160k instead of $100-120k, his new taxable value/SEV will not be the 50% of market value as required by state assessing law [[about 35% is a good rule of thumb). Not in this or any other older/existing construction city!

Now, buy a new house and your taxable and SEV will be 50% of your purchase price GUARANTEED! This is how it works in Michigan.

2blocksaway · November-02-09, 06:20 AM

Originally Posted by 7051

Now, buy a new house and your taxable and SEV will be 50% of your purchase price GUARANTEED! This is how it works in Michigan.

I am sorry but this is just NOT TRUE. You will have to appeal the city and state if you have any hope of making this happen.

The house we purchased early this year is still assessed $30,000 over half of our purchase price, and this is after appealing the city [[which lowered it 5,000 after our hearing with them) and waiting to hear back from the state board.

Fighting to get a fair taxable value and still not getting it is how it works in Michigan, and if you don't believe it i'll show you my paperwork.