BW3 and Burger Joint Coming Downtown

[davewindsor]

P.S. Hard Rock Cafe isn't paying anywhere near $26.00 a square foot.

Show me where you got that information.

[dcmorrison12]

I've actually done research for the Business and Auxiliary Operations Department at WSU for rental rates in Detroit. This is what I found.

Retail Rental Rates per Sq Ft

1) [[most of)Southeast Michigan - 12.99

2) CBD of Detroit - 11.87

3) New Center - 16.14

4) City of Detroit and The Pointes combined - 10.64

5) Cincinnati - 10 - 25

[ghettopalmetto]

I've actually done research for the Business and Auxiliary Operations Department at WSU for rental rates in Detroit. This is what I found.

Retail Rental Rates per Sq Ft

1) [[most of)Southeast Michigan - 12.99

2) CBD of Detroit - 11.87

3) New Center - 16.14

4) City of Detroit and The Pointes combined - 10.64

5) Cincinnati - 10 - 25

What kind of space is that? Is that office space? If so, what Class?

[davewindsor]

I've actually done research for the Business and Auxiliary Operations Department at WSU for rental rates in Detroit. This is what I found.

Retail Rental Rates per Sq Ft

1) [[most of)Southeast Michigan - 12.99

2) CBD of Detroit - 11.87

3) New Center - 16.14

4) City of Detroit and The Pointes combined - 10.64

5) Cincinnati - 10 - 25

Maybe for retail, but not for restaurant space. Restaurant space is a lot higher per square foot than a unit that might be suitable for, say, a used clothing store. Main floor restaurant space in a newer building like Compuware or even, say the food court in the RenCentre will be a lot higher than those above rates. So, age of building will play a factor. And, I'm also sure that retail space around Campus Martius will be a lot higher than space than Capitol Park on Griswold, so location in the CBD will also play a factor in the price.

[kraig]

Show me where you got that information.

Grubb & Ellis.

[davewindsor]

Grubb & Ellis.

Link please.

[sharmaal]

This reeks of someone trying to start a bidding war. Mention out loud the price you are "willing to pay", and see who jumps in the water. It's probably a number well below what anyone can offer. But it's like throwing chum into the water.

I'd do the same thing if I were them.

[1KielsonDrive]

Wonderful, wonderful. Now downtown needs a couple of grocery stores.

[WALD0123]

For a point of reference, the Shops at Compuware is asking $20/SF for 4,800 SF of built out restaurant space.

Buffalo Wild Wings typically takes around 7,000 SF.

[piczka]

BWW bars are not downtown hangouts. They cater to the college crowd which in Detroit will not pay $4.50 for a large draft and 6 bucks for 6 chicken wings. They tend to congregate in suburban shopping malls with plenty of accessible, free parking. We could use an ALDI downtown however, north of I75 on Woodward.

[REL]

Link please.

Dave, he gave you the information you asked for. If you're that interested, you can find the same research. It's lazy to expect someone to fetch links for you. Besides, not all answers can be found in a "link".

Unless you'd care to provide the links proving your points?

[EastSider]

BWW bars are not downtown hangouts. They cater to the college crowd which in Detroit will not pay $4.50 for a large draft and 6 bucks for 6 chicken wings. They tend to congregate in suburban shopping malls with plenty of accessible, free parking.

The one in downtown Mt. Clemens must be an outlier to their "tendency," huh?

[REL]

Or the one in Ferndale on 9 Mile. I had a bad date there one time... the guy ended up skipping out on the check and stealing my car

[dcmorrison12]

BWW bars are not downtown hangouts. They cater to the college crowd which in Detroit will not pay $4.50 for a large draft and 6 bucks for 6 chicken wings. They tend to congregate in suburban shopping malls with plenty of accessible, free parking. We could use an ALDI downtown however, north of I75 on Woodward.

I don't agree with part of your response. We have bars in Midtown, such as Lefty's, which charges those prices and college kids from Detroit flock to it. I love Lefty's for watching the Wings game.

Anyhow, Downtown Detroit has many young professionals, is within 2 miles of the 3rd largest university in Michigan [[40,000 students, about 8,000 faculty and staff), it's even closer to U of D Mercy law school, and within walking distance to THREE professional sports stadium. This bar has the potential to make more money than any BW3 in Michigan.

[kraig]

Or the one in Ferndale on 9 Mile. I had a bad date there one time... the guy ended up skipping out on the check and stealing my car

LMFAO. You ain't right.

[OriginalG313]

There's one on Michigan Ave. in Dearborn. And, there are meters in the parking lot.

[davewindsor]

Dave, he gave you the information you asked for. If you're that interested, you can find the same research. It's lazy to expect someone to fetch links for you. Besides, not all answers can be found in a "link".

Unless you'd care to provide the links proving your points?

I googled his link and searched their site's for lease listings on Woodward. They had nothing for lease. I searched further and found nothing there that would support his response on their website. Thus, he did not give me the information I asked for, just something irrelevant. I asked politely for the link since it appeared he made it up. No answer. Maybe you should do a little research before you give another one of your "lazy" and useless responses.

[crawford]

Anyhow, Downtown Detroit has many young professionals, is within 2 miles of the 3rd largest university in Michigan [[40,000 students, about 8,000 faculty and staff), it's even closer to U of D Mercy law school, and within walking distance to THREE professional sports stadium. This bar has the potential to make more money than any BW3 in Michigan.

Well then if you think it's such a can't-miss moneymaker, then open your own place downtown and see how it goes.

Nobody who actually works in commercial real estate would agree with your assesssment. That's why commercial rents downtown are significantly cheaper than suburban rents.

Also, a ton of your assumptions just don't make sense in the real world. The three sports stadia offer 130 days of sporting events a year, which probably isn't enough [[on its own) to sustain a business. And 130 is misleading; it's really 90. JLA, because of its isolated location, doesn't have the same market as Comerica/Ford Field.

As for Wayne, it's nowhere near downtown, and wouldn't have much of an impact. And Wayne's 40,000 enrollment is for ALL campuses and includes part-time students. I doubt there are more than 15,000 or so full-time students on the main campus.

And, more important, almost none of those 15,000 students actually lives in the area. It's overwhelmingly a commuter school.

[crawford]

I googled his link and searched their site's for lease listings on Woodward. They had nothing for lease. I searched further and found nothing there that would support his response on their website. Thus, he did not give me the information I asked for, just something irrelevant. I asked politely for the link since it appeared he made it up. No answer. Maybe you should do a little research before you give another one of your "lazy" and useless responses.

Dave, you sound like a teenager. There are a few of us grownups on this board who actually make their living in the real estate industry.

Call up Cushman & Wakefield, Grubb & Ellis, or whomever, and ask them about the Downtown market, or glance at any of the brokerage websites.

[jt1]

Well then if you think it's such a can't-miss moneymaker, then open your own place downtown and see how it goes.

Nobody who actually works in commercial real estate would agree with your assesssment. That's why commercial rents downtown are significantly cheaper than suburban rents.

Also, a ton of your assumptions just don't make sense in the real world. The three sports stadia offer 130 days of sporting events a year, which probably isn't enough [[on its own) to sustain a business. And 130 is misleading; it's really 90. JLA, because of its isolated location, doesn't have the same market as Comerica/Ford Field.

As for Wayne, it's nowhere near downtown, and wouldn't have much of an impact. And Wayne's 40,000 enrollment is for ALL campuses and includes part-time students. I doubt there are more than 15,000 or so full-time students on the main campus.

And, more important, almost none of those 15,000 students actually lives in the area. It's overwhelmingly a commuter school.

Are you talking about WCCC or Wayne State. If you are talking about Wayne State you are sorely mistaken. Of course you have never been a big fan of presenting your 'facts'.

[davewindsor]

Dave, you sound like a teenager. There are a few of us grownups on this board who actually make their living in the real estate industry.

Call up Cushman & Wakefield, Grubb & Ellis, or whomever, and ask them about the Downtown market, or glance at any of the brokerage websites.

Hahaha, Crawford thinks he's all grows up. Look at me, I'm Crawford, all grows up....

[NoHeartAnthony]

So I take it you didn't call Grubb & Ellis?

[crawford]

Are you talking about WCCC or Wayne State. If you are talking about Wayne State you are sorely mistaken. Of course you have never been a big fan of presenting your 'facts'.

On what specific point or points am I "sorely mistaken"?

Am I wrong to say Wayne isn't located downtown?

Am I wrong to say Wayne is overwhelmingly commuter?

Am I wrong to say Wayne has a huge proportion of part-time students and suburban campus students?

[dcmorrison12]

On what specific point or points am I "sorely mistaken"?

Am I wrong to say Wayne isn't located downtown?

Am I wrong to say Wayne is overwhelmingly commuter?

Am I wrong to say Wayne has a huge proportion of part-time students and suburban campus students?

1) Wayne State is located 2 miles directly north of downtown [[within eye shot). It is not, as you SAID "nowhere near downtown." Now, that is main campus. The medical campus [[Largest single campus medical school in the country), is only ONE mile directly north of downtown Detroit - Again, within eye shot.

2) WSU is overwhelmingly a commuter school, however this has changed DRASTICALLY and quickly. Just last year, WSU partnered with a private devloper and completed a brand new 3 - 4 story apartment complex with retail and a parking garage. Currenty, it's 80% leased residential, and 100% leased retail. The developer has plans to expand and construct condominiums in Midtown. Let's not forget WSU has built THREE high rise dormitories on campus, and the surrounding off campus area is full of students living in it.

3) WSU does have many part time, and suburban campus students. However, the OVERWHELMING amount of the students attend WSU at the main campus, downtown. As for the part time issue, what's your point? Part time students don't eat?

4) The professional sports will not be the only reason for customers to be coming down to Detroit. It's simply an added plus that no other city in Michigan has to offer [[besides Auburn Hills). How do you compete with that amount of EXTRA dedicated customers?

Lastly, the issue of the school even being a commuter school has no "teeth". Who's the say these students don't eat while they are down here?

[NoHeartAnthony]

A mile is still a considerable distance to walk when most of your classes are when it's cold out. So if we do eat at WSU, it's likely to be somewhere nearby. It's just not convenient to walk to your car, drive it downtown, find a place to park down there, then drive back. I mean... we're college students. Being convenient and cheap is top priority! Going out to eat at an overrated wings place... not so much.