I was wondering how the Detroit Newspapers were doing...here's the answer

**Fury13** · October-19-09, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by ggores

As a retired Detroit News delivery man, I think it's too bad that today's kids are not afforded the experience of the type of work delivering newspapers entails. Seven days a week, every day of the year, collect, pay yer bill, keep the change, go buy a six of Goebel and hang out by the railroad tracks.

Hmmm, interesting childhood you had there.

**Fury13** · October-19-09, 09:14 AM

Like a lot of boomers, I love reading the actual newspaper. I hate to say it, because I think that the competition between the two papers has resulted in some very good reporting, but News-Free Press consolidation is probably inevitable at some point. Obviously, the bigger issue is survival. I hope that the major metropolitan dailies can find some new model to generate revenue [[as has been pointed out, the whole classified ad structure is nearly dead, and display advertising revenue is on its way out, too). Converting all newspapers to online versions would do the public a disservice.

**Fnemecek** · October-19-09, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Savoyard

The growth of the internet will put these newspapers out of business before long. Sad.
An example: Lowell's excellent point above included the word "pelf". I opened a new Explorer screen and looked that up on dictionary.com. It's another word for "money." I learned a word I hadn't seen before. How many times has that happened while reading a newspaper???

It happens fairly often, for me at least. However, I'm unique. I was taught by nuns who encouraged me to keep a dictionary nearby when I read and to look up words the old-fashioned way.

**Mikeg** · October-19-09, 09:41 AM

What killed our papers is what killed everything in this City . Unchecked capitalism and the desire to do the new thing with no regards to our traditions.

Yeppers, those greedy 19th century capitalist bastards ruined this city when they forgot that Detroit's future growth was assured only by continuing with their traditional businesses of making cigars, barrels, ships, wagons and stoves.

Seriously, most clear-eyed observers recognize that the situation the News and Free Press finds itself in is due to management and labor's inability to respond to the new options that became available to their advertisers and readers. Yes, I like to be able to hold and read a home-delivered daily newspaper when and where I want to, but I also now have many other news and advertising sources instantly available to me throughout the day that are delivered by content and service providers who have figured out how to deliver it the last mile to my home and office while making a profit. Yet the Detroit Newspaper Agency decides to hang their survival on scaling back their long-standing ability to daily deliver their product the last mile to their customers. Disregarding a tradition is not the issue here, rather it is the mistaken notion that long-term success can be achieved by reducing customer service with the expectation that their already declining customer base will reluctantly accept it and halt the circulation death spiral.

**oldredfordette** · October-19-09, 12:55 PM

What does labor's inability to respond to new options mean? I think you're just slapping at labor because that's your way, you don't know what you're talking about.

**Johnlodge** · October-19-09, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by oldredfordette

What does labor's inability to respond to new options mean? I think you're just slapping at labor because that's your way, you don't know what you're talking about.

He said management and labor.

**Mikeg** · October-20-09, 08:15 AM

What does labor's inability to respond to new options mean?

First of all, the sentence I wrote said, "....the situation the News and Free Press finds itself in is due to management and labor's inability to respond to the new options that became available to their advertisers and readers."

What does that mean, you ask?

It means that management and labor are in the same sinking boat, with advertising and subscription revenues in a decades-long decline. Over that period, their advertisers and readers have gained many new options for placing and receiving information in addition to the daily newspaper.

How have management and labor responded to the challenge? From the paying customer's viewpoint, the response has been to cut back on content and home delivery. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that's not a long-term solution and that it's an attempt to buy some more time while management and labor come up with a better response.

you don't know what you're talking about.

That seems to typify the attitude of both management and labor at the Detroit newspapers towards their paying customers. Maybe you're right, but I don't give a flying fuck anymore.

As of today, I'm no longer a subscriber. I received an invoice yesterday and I noticed in the fine print why I was still receiving the paper even though my subscription had expired in August. Even though I don't remember ever signing up for automatic renewal, one quick call took care of that.
Attachment 3588 Attachment 3589

**ggores** · October-20-09, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Fury13

Hmmm, interesting childhood you had there.

eh, you know, it is what it is.... or was what it was... was what it is...

Mikeg, you should pay that bill, people depending on your paying for you newspaper.

**Mikeg** · October-20-09, 08:40 AM

Mikeg, you should pay that bill, people depending on your paying for you newspaper.

I told them I would pay for the papers I've received from August to now, but not with a renewal invoice that reads "Service will continue unless you call to cancel". I told them they had just received my "call to cancel" and that I will pay my balance owed when they send me a new invoice acknowleding that I had canceled and the amount I actually owed for papers received.

**ggores** · October-20-09, 08:49 AM

Mikeg you shouldn't argue with the newspaper, you should renew that subscription, pay that paper bill before your subscription becomes cancelled.

Damn I'm good.....

**Maxine1958** · October-20-09, 03:26 PM

I'm not saying this is the best solution, but what if . . .

The two major daily newspapers truly combined. With each having their separate sections - like they do on Sunday. And, what if, say, the Macomb Daily sections, were also included. Or what ever the local paper is in your area. One daily delivery. The advertisers could choose the section they wanted their ads to be in. Separate reporting and editorial staffs, but combined printing, logistics and delivery.

What do you think?

**oldredfordette** · October-20-09, 07:33 PM

You're probably going to get your wish.

**oldredfordette** · October-20-09, 07:34 PM

Mikeg, what makes you think labor has anything to do with the state of the papers?

**Mikeg** · October-20-09, 09:22 PM

Mikeg, what makes you think labor has anything to do with the state of the papers?

Why do you care what I think? You've already told everyone that I don't know what I'm talking about and you didn't offer a single shred of evidence to support your opinion.

**Rocko** · October-20-09, 09:30 PM

I have a TH-FR-SU subscription to the Free Press, though I was under the impression when I signed up that I'd be getting the News on Th-Fr. I work downtown a few days per week. Those mornings, I check the free websites [[detnews.com, and freep.com) and look at the headlines only. If one looks good, I'll buy it at a box downtown. I won't pay an additional dollar for 20 pages of adds and 8 pages of news I don't car about unless there is something worthwhile to read. But, I try to support them when I have a reason to.

I won't read the E-edition even though it's included in my subscription. It's called a newsPAPER.

Stosh · October-20-09, 09:32 PM

We are all fucking spoiled by the internet, and the ease by which it allows us to read the news online. I subscribe, and I don't ever open the stupid online editions. They are just giving their product away. Sooner or later, there won't be a product for us to steal, no local reporting, then what?

**Vitalis** · October-28-09, 09:28 PM

At one time my dilemma was that I liked columnists in both the News and the FreeP, but my Dad only subscribed to the News. Then came the merger and I could get editorial viewpoints from both papers in one on Sundays. My problem was solved by the merger, I could make my adjustments regarding everything else because I could get opposing viewpoints on the best newspaper day of the week - Sundays. We live in such a fast and furious time that some of us don't even realize what has been lost -- namely, focus. The newspapers helped one focus. No crawls at the bottom of the TV screen, no pop up ads online - punching away or dancing for your attention. We simply cannot lose the newspaper. Remember all the furor over the use of color in USA Today? Presentation can and will change, but if the paper record of the day goes away, and the internet and other media win the day it will cause a seismic shift in the way news is reported - more headlines, less thoughful analysis. It's happening now isn't it.

**buildingsofdetroit** · October-28-09, 09:39 PM

Links to Poynter on the Free Press' experiment:

http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=45&aid=172298
The first official results for the Detroit newspapers' risky survival plan of reduced home delivery show them losing readers and losing money, reports Bill Mitchell. Still, "we're a lot better off having done this," says Free Press editor and publisher Paul Anger [[left). Mitchell also reports:
* Executives believe they can make money by the end of 2010.
* An Oct. 5 single-copy price hike for the daily paper -- from 50 cents to $1 -- has chased away 28% of the buyers but has resulted in a net revenue gain.
* Usage of the papers' special e-edition has held steady at about 30,000 users on days without home delivery.
* Combined traffic to the papers' websites is up about 10% year over year.

http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=131&aid=172349
With advertising in the tank and recovery still a distant dream, at least in Detroit, the Detroit Free Press and Detroit News are looking elsewhere for a revenue boost.
Executives at the papers told me last week that they hope to double the revenue they receive from readers, shifting the traditional newspaper revenue split from 80 percent advertising and 20 percent circulation to 60-40 as part of their reduced home delivery plan.

**Diehard** · November-03-09, 12:10 AM

Question:Who here would be willing to pay to read the papers on the web? Subscription, or by the click, or otherwise?

**rid0617** · November-03-09, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by Diehard

Question:Who here would be willing to pay to read the papers on the web? Subscription, or by the click, or otherwise?

Not I in this lifetime

**Big Dog** · November-03-09, 07:50 AM

The freep 6 days a week, is crap. Filled with 2 paragraph items and no real writers. My local paper, the Macomb Daily, is much, much better.

Lorax · November-03-09, 07:57 AM

The New York Times tried to charge for content and dumped it, since no one was willing to pay for it online.

There is room for both print media as well as internet content. Many traditional papers will not survive the trend, much as many silent film stars couldn't make the transition to talkies.

**Diehard** · November-03-09, 03:49 PM

How are any of them supposed to survive if everyone wants them for free?

**467riverfix** · November-03-09, 05:26 PM

Actually thru a loophole I was getting it home-delivered 7 days a week. Then I went on vacation and the delivery stopped - for good. I tried reading the 'graphic edition' online and I have to admit [[real paper lover tat I am) that it's almost like the real thing. And I save more than $30 a month!

**467riverfix** · November-03-09, 05:29 PM

Because of a loophole I was getting it delivered 7 days a week. Then I went on vacation and it stopped completedly. I tried reading the 'graphic edition' online. And although I'm a lover of the paper ed I must say the online version isn't all that much diff. And I save $30/mo to boot!