I was wondering how the Detroit Newspapers were doing...here's the answer

[EMG]

I've gone completely electronic when it comes to the news. I haven't subscribed to a hard copy newspaper in years.

[Diehard]

Question for the "good riddance" crowd: Who's doing it better?
The Metro Times does some decent work, but that's once a week, and they don't deliver to your door either. Are the local TV people going to pick up the ball and do hard-hitting investigative journalism? Doubt it. You get Steve Wilson, during sweeps period, but that's about it.
Maybe there are some enterprising bloggers out there with the experience, energy and ethics to fill the void.
For now, though, readership - online - is strong for the dailies, and if that went away I have a feeling people would be howling even louder.
Politicians would love it, though.

[jjw]

Don't feel alone on this issue. It is happening nation-wide. I grew up with both the Freep and News and read both daily. I LOVED the newspaper and must admit, I still have an addiction to it. Now living in Baltimore, I am experiencing the same dilemna. I consistently buy it, read it, and they feel the air of disappointment once the experience is over. It's simply not like it was. I guess it will soon be a thing of the past. Shame. Price up-quality down-nationwide.

[65memories]

I have always read both newspapers...the Detroit Free Press for news and features and the Detroit News to see what "the other side" was thinking. Until the recent changes, I bought both papers each morning. I also read the online edition, but there is nothing like having the actual paper in your hands, where you can enjoy it with a cup of coffee at your leisure. Then the price went up to $1.00. The problem is the price has increased and the quality has decreased. The weekday editions have less news and sometimes less credibility than Wayne State's The South End. The papers are embarrassingly thin. And at our cottage up north, I've noticed a refusal to buy the paper at all. In my favorite local restaurant up north, there used to be a breakfast crowd where 3/4 of the diners had either the News or Freep with them. The other day, when I stopped by, I was the only one to have purchased a paper. I feel sorry for anyone going into print journalism these days.

[jhartmich]

Question for the "good riddance" crowd: Who's doing it better?....
.

Um, I would say lot's of publications if were talking just news. I like the TV news because they actually REPORT shit and not just opine shit. I like the Metro Times if you're talking print, talk radio for local news that never makes print, and many of the independents for local stories that seem to never get picked up in the News.

I'm not saying there are a few good articles now and then, but 90% of the paper is AP stories that can be read in any newspaper in America.

[buildingsofdetroit]

I haven't got my Detroit Times in a while...

Shameless Detroit Times plug:
http://www.buildingsofdetroit.com/places/times

[Diehard]

Um, I would say lot's of publications if were talking just news. I like the TV news because they actually REPORT shit and not just opine shit. I like the Metro Times if you're talking print, talk radio for local news that never makes print, and many of the independents for local stories that seem to never get picked up in the News.

I'm not saying there are a few good articles now and then, but 90% of the paper is AP stories that can be read in any newspaper in America.

I'm not sure which other independent publications you're talking about that have straight, unopinionated local news? Real Detroit? Michigan Citizen? Metro Times has a lot of strong stuff, but it's not daily, nor is it a straight-ahead, objective viewpoint.
I don't know about you, but when I watch the local TV news, it's usually some blowdried mannequin standing in front of a fire blathering about nothing to kill time, or a "concerned parent" complaining about traffic in front of their house, or "you won't believe where this shocking scene happened!" and it's in France or something... you get the point. I don't picture Monica Gayle doing an in-depth expose on City Council budgetary abuses.

[Lowell]

The MetroTimes has always been handed out for free in hard or soft copy. In a sense they were the model for where print media were headed and figured out a funding model that has allowed them to endure and prosper. The big dailies grew slothful with their lock on micro-ads aka classifieds on one end and then the big full page advertisers on the other.

Then along came the internet and Craig Newmark.

Along with their power and pelf came status and prestige which IMO developed into a self-importance problem that blinded them to the real forces aligning against them. They could afford to hold their noses up the escort ads that the 'inferior' MetroTimes took on. Look who's laughing to the bank now.

The big dailies are running on fumes and reputation. I am astounded that their doors stay open.

The sad part is that there will be a big hit to quality journalism and local in depth investigative reporting until they figure out how to develop a new funding model. Public radio and television have figured it out by passing the hat and developing sponsorships. Maybe they need to look in that direction.

[jhartmich]

The MetroTimes has always been handed out for free in hard or soft copy. In a sense they were the model for where print media were headed and figured out a funding model that has allowed them to endure and prosper. The big dailies grew slothful with their lock on micro-ads aka classifieds on one end and then the big full page advertisers on the other.

Then along came the internet and Craig Newmark.

Along with their power and pelf came status and prestige which IMO developed into a self-importance problem that blinded them to the real forces aligning against them. They could afford to hold their noses up the escort ads that the 'inferior' MetroTimes took on. Look who's laughing to the bank now.

The big dailies are running on fumes and reputation. I am astounded that their doors stay open.

The sad part is that there will be a big hit to quality journalism and local in depth investigative reporting until they figure out how to develop a new funding model. Public radio and television have figured it out by passing the hat and developing sponsorships. Maybe they need to look in that direction.

Very well said. I couldn't agree more.

[7andkelly]

I dropped my subscription when those hypocrites locked out the workers and hired scabs. Let me know when there is a settlement AND all those affected [[or their decendents now) receive proper restitution.

[Diehard]

The MetroTimes has always been handed out for free in hard or soft copy. In a sense they were the model for where print media were headed and figured out a funding model that has allowed them to endure and prosper. The big dailies grew slothful with their lock on micro-ads aka classifieds on one end and then the big full page advertisers on the other.

Then along came the internet and Craig Newmark.

Along with their power and pelf came status and prestige which IMO developed into a self-importance problem that blinded them to the real forces aligning against them. They could afford to hold their noses up the escort ads that the 'inferior' MetroTimes took on. Look who's laughing to the bank now.

The big dailies are running on fumes and reputation. I am astounded that their doors stay open.

The sad part is that there will be a big hit to quality journalism and local in depth investigative reporting until they figure out how to develop a new funding model. Public radio and television have figured it out by passing the hat and developing sponsorships. Maybe they need to look in that direction.

Great. A future newspaper of 10% news, 15% band/movie reviews, 25% bar ads and 50% transvestite hookers sticking their thongified buttcheeks in the camera. I can't wait.

[Savoyard]

I worked at the Freep for 13 years as a printer, before switching over to work for the vendor who replaced our old hot-lead linotypes with an electronic publishing system. But sure glad I did, because I could see the beginning of the end back in the 1980s. The strike put the nail in their coffin.
The growth of the internet will put these newspapers out of business before long. Sad.
An example: Lowell's excellent point above included the word "pelf". I opened a new Explorer screen and looked that up on dictionary.com. It's another word for "money." I learned a word I hadn't seen before. How many times has that happened while reading a newspaper???

[Diehard]

I dropped my subscription when those hypocrites locked out the workers and hired scabs. Let me know when there is a settlement AND all those affected [[or their decendents now) receive proper restitution.

Out of curiosity, which other publications are unionized? Anyone know?

[mjs]

I used to get the paper daily and I loved it.

I tried the here and there subscription they offered and could never remember whether I was supposed to have a paper or not and never seemed to have one on the days I wanted one. I like a real paper in the morning without having to go out of my way to get it. Grab it in my slippers and read a little of it between the time I'm ready to leave and the time I have to leave. Maybe read a few comics sitting at the useless lights they run at six am. Its also something in the car that I can read if I end up getting somewhere early. So, for numerous reasons including not liking to read long things on the internet, the online edition is useless to me.

As for buying it every day, I'm not much of a morning person but start work at 6:30 so once I get in the car, I don't want to make any extra stops and make my drive longer so I just don't get it.

When I cancelled, I told them I'd pay extra to continue the daily service and I'm still waiting for them to accept that offer. When they first announced it, I was scratching my head. They claim they took a poll, but the numerous subscribers I talked to said they didn't like it and were never asked about it. I think they tried to save money by doing the poll online and never thought to ask the people that actually wrote them the checks because the poll wasn't very reliable indication of what subscriber's would do. Its still a great paper and if the Freep cares, I'd resubscribe to daily membership in a heart beat, but I'm just not really interested otherwise.

In the same line, whats with the garbage that many of the businesses I work with have to waste my time everytime I call with an automated message about how great it is to use their website. I wouldn't have called the number if I wanted to be on the damned website. We get it! The internet exists!

[Detroitnerd]

Out of curiosity, which other publications are unionized? Anyone know?

To anybody who knows the history of newspapering, it is a strange question to hear. Printers and typesetters were among the earliest trades unionized, as they were some of the smartest in the working class. And they were committed to organizing themselves and helping others get organized.

Not to say there's anything wrong with your question, Diehard. Anybody want to actually answer it?

[downtownguy]

There is so little actual "Detroit" news in either paper these days. Because I need to keep up on local things, I continued to pay for and read the Sunday paper until 2 years ago. During the week, I would read the online version. But Sunday's edition became too heavy on fluff or sports -- and forget it if you wanted anything more than a paragraph or two on national and world news. I gave up on local tv news years ago because of all the sensationalism.

Now, I read the Sunday NYT and it is worth every bit of the $6 it costs. For the real scoop on local news, I come to DetroitYes and skim the online editions of the News and Freep for the rest. More often than not, I get more of the real story from DetroitYes.

[pffft]

The Metro Times is not unionized -- they've fought it successfully. The Oakland Press busted its unions back in the what, '80s?
The Free Press and Detroit News newsrooms are unionized. The companies did come to a financial settlement to the strikers who couldn't come back because they were "fired" -- good settlement or not, they all opted to vote for it, for the good of all. Many strikers are back inside, and when Elrick won his Pulitzer he was wearing a Guild button very prominently.

[shovelhead]

The final straw was the home delivery changes. Before that, the quality of the paper was lacking, but I did see glimmers of hope from time to time.

I tried the electronic version and was truly unawed by it. Hard to read, page freeze up, blurry, etc. I don't have time to waste in the mornings, and a locked up computer is not the way to go. At work, I have computer access, but due to company computer policy there is a time limit for news sources of 90 minutes. Sounds like a lot, but when you log in, if you are on for thirty seconds, and have to stop for example and answer the phone and use the computer for it's intended use, a business related function you are still "charged" for a set block of time. I've used up an hour of time for a two minute story, no exaggeration. And, to be fair, I'm paid to work, not read the paper at work.

I tried the Thursday/Friday/Sunday paper for a short time. Friday and Sunday were so-so, Thursday was fit for cat box liner IMO.

As I posted in a earlier thread, the subscription department was a real trip. I cancelled the three day paper by phoning into the call center. When asked why I was cancelling, I told them that all I really wanted was the Sunday paper, but at the time I subscribed to the three day because that was the only way I could get it.

Well, the rep said she could give me a Sunday only paper, electronic biling to my credit card for a figure that I can't remember now. I told her I was uncomfortable doing that as I had billing issues before when paying by check, and I wanted some control over what was going on my credit card.

She then offered me the same terms but mailing my bill on a monthly basis for about a dollar and a half LESS per month. I then asked her how they could computer generate a paper statement and mail it for less than the electronic billing. She said that she didn't know, but that is what she had in front of her.

Yeah, I'm going to trust them with my credit card number? Anybody want to buy a bridge?

Good bye Free Press, a part of my morning since 1967 [[except when I lived out of state 79-88)

[Diehard]

I'd have to venture that the current financial problems stem from businesses cutting back on ad spending, much more than a strike from the '90s. Remember, this is happening nationwide. Many longtime papers have shut their doors in the past year.

[ggores]

As a retired Detroit News delivery man, I think it's too bad that today's kids are not afforded the experience of the type of work delivering newspapers entails. Seven days a week, every day of the year, collect, pay yer bill, keep the change, go buy a six of Goebel and hang out by the railroad tracks. Now, for the most part, kids have to work at crap places like Taco Bell, or MacDonalds. Newspaper delivery was a key function in our neighborhood, the rivalry between the News and Freep was mystic. We never seen those Freep deliverer's because they had to work early in the morning, they were like the enemy you couldn't see. Freep customers thought Det News deliverer's were lower than whale shit, and likewise for my customers towards Freep people. And then there were those who subscribed to both rags. Fridays were the best because I could get the Entertainment section when it first hit the streets, and take it home for the folks. Those jobs will not return. Or will they?

[oldredfordette]

I dropped my subscription when those hypocrites locked out the workers and hired scabs. Let me know when there is a settlement AND all those affected [[or their decendents now) receive proper restitution.

I still have this fond little dream where a court finds one of the stray lawsuits lingering about and reverses the entire thing. I have striker friends who were never given any kind of final closure. It would be really lovely but it ain't gonna happen.

In the meantime, more layoffs loom in ALL departments. That building is so empty you can hear the wind whistle through some days.

I hear the building is for sale, BTW. Anybody wanna buy an old newspaper, cheap?

[pffft]

The poster asked what publications are unionized. The fact is, the News and Freep newsrooms are, when most in the area are not.
If you're buying the Oakland Press, you're buying a paper that busted its unions.
There are a lot of people inside that "old newspaper" building like Elrick, Schaefer andyes, Leduff who are proud union members doing important work.

[oldredfordette]

And me. Remember, it takes more people to put a paper out than reporters.

[bobby wobby]

All my life I subscribed to the Freep it broke my heart when they changed ,and soon to nobody's surprise there will be no Detroit Papers.What killed our papers is what killed everything in this City . Unchecked capitalism and the desire to do the new thing with no regards to our traditions.

[pffft]

Oh I'm sure it's OK -- you guys can always link to WDET stories.