Capitalism, A Love Story

[Danny]

You know, discussing things with you would be a whole lot easier if you would learn to write in English.No one on this board--besides maybe Cc--has ever claimed that it is.Again, no one has ever claimed that it is.Here is where you depart from comprehensibility. [[Do you ever read back over what you've written to see if it makes any sense?) So, since I can't make head nor tails of that last paragraph, we'll move on without comment.Again, incomprehensible.[[Pinocchio?? WTF?)Those jobs came from capitalism. People are in debt and losing their homes because of rapacious capitalism, not the garden variety. You have to keep from throwing out the baby with the bathwater. [quote]The Government shouldn't gave Wall Street and banks goons our hard earned money. Those monies should be going to work programs to have millions of Americans back to work.

And when those Americans finally go back to work--and they will--it will be at jobs provided by capitalists doing what capitalists do.About the only similarity I can see between you and any "prophet" are that you both speak in tongues that only you can understand.Please stop invoking Neda Soltani as a reason for anything and everything. She was an Iranian dissident who had absolutely nothing to say about or to do with the US economy.[/quote]


Everyone has their own codespeak. Either you must understand it or not Capitalism is a SIN.

I will remember Neda Soltani for she is the liberator for democracy against the powers that be.

[Danny]

[/b]*shrug* You read it your way, I'll read it mine. [/b]Where in the gospels does it specifically say that there were no money changers at the temple when Jusus went there as a child? Point it out to me. Otherwise that's just an assumption on your part and goes against everything we know from history and archeology.[/b] Hey, I didn't bring it up, you did. Either explain it or your comments will remain non sequitur. [[Which, BTW, is an expression which you clearly don't understand, as your use of it here is itself a non sequitur.)[/b] Point out one place where it's called the second Temple of Solomon [[other than some preacher's commentary), and maybe I'll believe you. However, in all of my readings--and they have been extensive--nobody of that time ever referred to it as such. [/b]So can scripture, but that doesn't keep you from citing it as authoritative. Personally, I'll take my chances with history.Um, what happened to him, other than he lived a long life and died quietly in his sleep?

There were no money changers in the Second Temple of King Solomon where Jesus was a child talking to the rabbais and priests. They came a couple years later bo they order of the Pharisees and Roman Government before Jesus came to Jerusalem riding a donkey.

Herod's Temple is located on the same spot where King Solomon built his temple. King Herod just put some of money to build it for the glory of his Jewish people not just for God.[[ That was a terrible mistake he did as he didn't dedicate the temple for the Lord.)Therefore the Lord didn't dwell in the temple until Jesus overthrew the moneychangers for he recognized that Herod's Temple is still King Solomon's Holy Temple. That is where God dwell.

ALL scriptures in the bible remains true. God say it, man wrote it, but man can sometimes change or misinterpret God's words. So I was very careful reading the holy scriptures.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET.

Any more quotes you want to rebute.

In memoriam: Neda Soltani

[elganned]

Everyone has their own codespeak. Either you must understand it or not Capitalism is a SIN.

Sorry, I forgot my Secret Decoder Ring. You'll either have to speak in plain English or talk to yourself, I suppose.

I will remember Neda Soltani for she is the liberator for democracy against the powers that be.

You cheapen her memory by bringing it into every conversation whether she is a relevant symbol or not. If that's what you want, then by all means carry on; you're doing a good job.

[elganned]

There were no money changers in the Second Temple of King Solomon where Jesus was a child talking to the rabbais and priests. They came a couple years later bo they order of the Pharisees and Roman Government before Jesus came to Jerusalem riding a donkey.

And you have a citation or other source you can quote to back up this claim? Produce it.

Herod's Temple is located on the same spot where King Solomon built his temple. King Herod just put some of money to build it for the glory of his Jewish people not just for God.[[ That was a terrible mistake he did as he didn't dedicate the temple for the Lord.)Therefore the Lord didn't dwell in the temple until Jesus overthrew the moneychangers for he recognized that Herod's Temple is still King Solomon's Holy Temple. That is where God dwell.

Herod's temple was not Solomon's temple. Solomon's temple was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BCE. The second temple wasn't started until 537 BCE, and finished in 516 BCE. The second temple may have stood where Solomon's temple once stood, but we have no solid archeological evidence to support that. Herod refurbished and embellished this second temple [[which has been almost universally referred to as Herod's Temple since then), and may have even buried the original temple site under the current temple platform when he enlarged it.

So to call it "King Solomon's Holy Temple" is a gross simplification and demonstrates a lack of knowledge of both history and archeology.

ALL scriptures in the bible remains true. God say it, man wrote it, but man can sometimes change or misinterpret God's words. So I was very careful reading the holy scriptures.

*shrug* Yeah, whatever. It's your story, tell it any way you want.

Any more quotes you want to rebute.

Dude, "rebute" isn't even a word. Stop embarassing yourself.

[ccbatson]

Greenspan was an Objectivist, before he sold out to the fed [[an anti objectivist entity)...now a secondhander and not a source to refer to for Objectivist principles.

[elganned]

Yes, ignore the Apostate. He betrayed the Faith; he has nothing to say worth hearing.

[Danny]

elqaaned quoted that Herod's temple was not Solomon's temple. Solomon's temple was destroyed by the Babylonians in 586 BCE. The second temple wasn't started until 537 BCE, and finished in 516 BCE. The second temple may have stood where Solomon's temple once stood, but we have no solid archeological evidence to support that. Herod refurbished and embellished this second temple [[which has been almost universally referred to as Herod's Temple since then), and may have even buried the original temple site under the current temple platform when he enlarged it.

So to call it "King Solomon's Holy Temple" is a gross simplification and demonstrates a lack of knowledge of both history and archeology.


King Herod's Temple was built for the glory of the Jewish people and not for God. It is also called King Solomon's Temple also known as the [[Second) King Solomon's Temple. That is what the Jews want to call it back then since it was built upon the ruins of King Solomon's Temple. Go ask some of them even the Israelis. We can debate all we want but what I have learn from history and spiritual history, it remains as is until new evidence surfaces and becomes fact.

[elganned]

Since we're talking about archeological evidence, I'm sure you are aware that there is no archeological evidence--nor any historical evidence from contemporary sources other than the Bible--that Solomon's Temple even existed at all.

And there is considerable difference of opinion as to the actual location of the second temple, much less the first.

So you go on believing whatever you want. But your believing it doesn't make it so until it's corroborated by outside evidence.

And for your info, I know many Jews and not a few Jewish scholars, and have read a fair number of archeological and historical commentaries on the subject, and not a single one of them has ever referred to the second temple as King Solomon's Second Temple. Not one, not ever.

[Pam]

Elganned- the only thing more pointless than arguing with Ccbatson, is arguing with Danny.

[Danny]

Since we're talking about archeological evidence, I'm sure you are aware that there is no archeological evidence--nor any historical evidence from contemporary sources other than the Bible--that Solomon's Temple even existed at all.

And there is considerable difference of opinion as to the actual location of the second temple, much less the first.

So you go on believing whatever you want. But your believing it doesn't make it so until it's corroborated by outside evidence.

And for your info, I know many Jews and not a few Jewish scholars, and have read a fair number of archeological and historical commentaries on the subject, and not a single one of them has ever referred to the second temple as King Solomon's Second Temple. Not one, not ever.

You might want to take a look at this:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...artifacts.html


Plus Herod's Temple is also called the [[Second) Solomon's Temple back then from the Jews for Herod's Temple was built under the spot where Solomon's Temple once stood.

[Mama Jackson]

So, ahem, let's get back to the thread topic....the movie, "Capitalism, A Love Story". Did you see the movie and what did you think of the issues it presents?

[Danny]

Not enough info to address the effects of capitalism, but do I understand those confusing stock derivatives and people being duped of owning a bank by putting their homes up for equity turning it into to own personal ATM machines. The movie sucked and it flopped at the box offices.

[elganned]

You might want to take a look at this:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...artifacts.html

I'm aware of it, have been for about a year. It's pretty exciting.

But a few pot sherds and some animal bones show only that there were people living there at the time commonly assumed to correspond to the first temple. It does not constitute proof that a temple existed, nor does it really say anything about the people in question other than that they used pottery and killed animals. Much more will be needed to establish the existence of the temple.

If I dug up your back yard and found a musketball and a broken cup, that wouldn't prove that the British once built a fort on your property. But that's about as big a leap as you're making.

Plus Herod's Temple is also called the [[Second) Solomon's Temple back then from the Jews for Herod's Temple was built under the spot where Solomon's Temple once stood.

Give me one citation, just one, where you can find any scholarly reference to the Solomon's Second Temple, and I'll believe you. Just one. I'll wait.

And since nobody knows where Solomon's Temple stood, there is no way to know whether the second temple was built in the same place. [[And how could they build it "under" Solomon's temple?)

[elganned]

Elganned- the only thing more pointless than arguing with Ccbatson, is arguing with Danny.

Oh, I realized that some time ago. But I don't see any reason to let nonsense parade around as knowledge.

In the meantime, it keeps me busy until Cc shows up with more egregious one-liners.

[Danny]

elganned quoted that give me one citation, just one, where you can find any scholarly reference to the Solomon's Second Temple, and I'll believe you. Just one. I'll wait.And since nobody knows where Solomon's Temple stood, there is no way to know whether the second temple was built in the same place. [[And how could they build it "under" Solomon's temple?)

Take a look at this.

http://www.bible.ca/maps/maps-jerusalem-33AD.htm

http://www.americanbible.org/brcpage...maps-jerusalem

There's your connection. Both the old and new Temple were built upon the Temple Mount which its now the Western Wall remnants of the Herod's Temple and King Solomon's Temple once stood.

Any more words you want to challenge the Street Prophet?

Oh Yeah! I made a spelling daemon. It's rebuttal.

[ccbatson]

I think it is a good move for Elganned's ego to cross swords with Danny...I mean, how much failure can he take without losing heart? If all he has to look forward to is getting thrashed by me, I can see how he would get depressed and discouraged.

[elganned]

Take a look at this.

http://www.bible.ca/maps/maps-jerusalem-33AD.htm

http://www.americanbible.org/brcpage...maps-jerusalem

There's your connection. Both the old and new Temple were built upon the Temple Mount which its now the Western Wall remnants of the Herod's Temple and King Solomon's Temple once stood.

Any more words you want to challenge the Street Prophet?

Oh Yeah! I made a spelling daemon. It's rebuttal.

Danny, Danny...you still don't get it. Neither one of the links you posted refers to a "Second Temple of Solomon", which is what I asked for. They just show a drawing and say "temple". I could do as much.

However, why don't you look at this one: http://www.templemount.org/ Feel free to examine all four of the proposed locations for the second temple. I personally favor the second Southern location.

Then go here: http://www.geocities.com/theseder2/aerialView.html where they conclude that the location of the second temple is under the Al Aksa Mosque, most of it buried and a good portion of it not even on the temple mount, at all.

Then there's this one: http://meridianmagazine.com/sci_rel/080815temple.html which proposes that the temple of Solomon was built somewhere to the north of the Dome of the Rock.

And finally this site: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/prog...lomon_qa.shtml where they discuss the growing doubt among archeologists that Solomon's Temple ever existed.

You see, my friend, life is not so simple as you thought. Good luck with your "rebuttal".

And I have yet to see any evidence that the second temple was ever called the Second Temple of Solomon, by anyone. If you find a real reference [[not just a cartoon with "temple" drawn on it), post it for me.

[elganned]

I think it is a good move for Elganned's ego to cross swords with Danny...I mean, how much failure can he take without losing heart? If all he has to look forward to is getting thrashed by me, I can see how he would get depressed and discouraged.

Cc, if getting thrashed by you is all I have to worry about, I'm already crowned champion. [[You may bow, but don't touch.)

[Mama Jackson]

Not enough info to address the effects of capitalism, but do I understand those confusing stock derivatives and people being duped of owning a bank by putting their homes up for equity turning it into to own personal ATM machines. The movie sucked and it flopped at the box offices.

Oh, no, it didn't. See below.

"But thanks to some amazing stories of economic survival and Moore's much-needed clowning, Capitalism: A Love Story will deliver sizable audiences as the first documentary release for Overture Films and easily become the year's top-earning doc."
http://boxoffice.com/reviews/2009/09...love-story.php

Everyone should see this movie, no matter what your policitics are.

[rb336]

I think it is a good move for Elganned's ego to cross swords with Danny...I mean, how much failure can he take without losing heart? If all he has to look forward to is getting thrashed by me, I can see how he would get depressed and discouraged.

still waiting for you to thrash anyone [[in reality, not in your own sad mind)

[Danny]

Danny, Danny...you still don't get it. Neither one of the links you posted refers to a "Second Temple of Solomon", which is what I asked for. They just show a drawing and say "temple". I could do as much.

However, why don't you look at this one: http://www.templemount.org/ Feel free to examine all four of the proposed locations for the second temple. I personally favor the second Southern location.

Then go here: http://www.geocities.com/theseder2/aerialView.html where they conclude that the location of the second temple is under the Al Aksa Mosque, most of it buried and a good portion of it not even on the temple mount, at all.

Then there's this one: http://meridianmagazine.com/sci_rel/080815temple.html which proposes that the temple of Solomon was built somewhere to the north of the Dome of the Rock.

And finally this site: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/prog...lomon_qa.shtml where they discuss the growing doubt among archeologists that Solomon's Temple ever existed.

You see, my friend, life is not so simple as you thought. Good luck with your "rebuttal".

And I have yet to see any evidence that the second temple was ever called the Second Temple of Solomon, by anyone. If you find a real reference [[not just a cartoon with "temple" drawn on it), post it for me.

I go what the what the bible says where the Solomon's Temple and Herod's Temple is at. The same area upon the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

[elganned]

But the Bible doesn't mention where on the temple mount the first temple stood, and the landscape has been drastically and artificially changed since then, anyway. Nor does it specifically say where the returning exhiles built the second temple, not even that they built it in the same place as the first. For all we know, they could have built the second one at right-angles to the first or in a different spot on the mount altogether. And it is well-documented history that after the destruction of the second temple in 70 CE the emperor Hadrian built a Roman temple to Jupiter on the temple mount, which may or may not have been located where the second temple stood. It just doesn't say, not in the Bible, not in Josephus, not anywhere.

So whatever you think you're getting from the Bible is pure speculation, not fact.

P.S.: I'm glad to see the spelling has improved. Now if we could work on the grammar just a bit...

[rb336]

Back to capitalism.

Capitalism is a tool. as a tool, it is neutral, like a hammer. a hammer isn't evil or sinful, it is just a hammer. when the hammer is used to do evil, it is the person wielding the hammer who is evil. same goes for capitalism. used as a tool to build wealth, it is fine. when unregulated, however, it too often becomes a tool of oppression and exploitation. again, the wielders' fault, not the tools. We have laws against using hammers for evil, same should go for capitalism

[Danny]

But the Bible doesn't mention where on the temple mount the first temple stood, and the landscape has been drastically and artificially changed since then, anyway. Nor does it specifically say where the returning exhiles built the second temple, not even that they built it in the same place as the first. For all we know, they could have built the second one at right-angles to the first or in a different spot on the mount altogether. And it is well-documented history that after the destruction of the second temple in 70 CE the emperor Hadrian built a Roman temple to Jupiter on the temple mount, which may or may not have been located where the second temple stood. It just doesn't say, not in the Bible, not in Josephus, not anywhere.

So whatever you think you're getting from the Bible is pure speculation, not fact.

P.S.: I'm glad to see the spelling has improved. Now if we could work on the grammar just a bit...

Solomon's Temple was built on Mount Moriah as known as The Temple Mount. Remember The Hebrews, later called the Jews have several different names for holy places in Israel.

http://www.templemount.org/moriah2.html

To prove it here's the scriptures: 2 Chronicles Chapter 3 from verse 1 to 16.

Then Solomon began to build the temple of the Lord in Jerusalem on Mount Moriah, where the Lord had appeared to his father David. It was on the threshing floor of Araunaha the Jebusite, the place provided by David. 2 He began building on the second day of the second month in the fourth year of his reign.

3 The foundation Solomon laid for building the temple of God was sixty cubits long and twenty cubits wide [[using the cubit of the old standard). 4 The portico at the front of the temple was twenty cubits long across the width of the building and twenty cubits high.
He overlaid the inside with pure gold. 5 He paneled the main hall with pine and covered it with fine gold and decorated it with palm tree and chain designs. 6 He adorned the temple with precious stones. And the gold he used was gold of Parvaim. 7 He overlaid the ceiling beams, doorframes, walls and doors of the temple with gold, and he carved cherubim on the walls.
8 He built the Most Holy Place, its length corresponding to the width of the temple—twenty cubits long and twenty cubits wide. He overlaid the inside with six hundred talentse of fine gold. 9 The gold nails weighed fifty shekels.f He also overlaid the upper parts with gold.
10 In the Most Holy Place he made a pair of sculptured cherubim and overlaid them with gold. 11 The total wingspan of the cherubim was twenty cubits. One wing of the first cherub was five cubitsg long and touched the temple wall, while its other wing, also five cubits long, touched the wing of the other cherub. 12 Similarly one wing of the second cherub was five cubits long and touched the other temple wall, and its other wing, also five cubits long, touched the wing of the first cherub. 13 The wings of these cherubim extended twenty cubits. They stood on their feet, facing the main hall.h
14 He made the curtain of blue, purple and crimson yarn and fine linen, with cherubim worked into it.
15 In the front of the temple he made two pillars, which together were thirty-five cubitsi long, each with a capital on top measuring five cubits. 16 He made interwoven chainsj and put them on top of the pillars. He also made a hundred pomegranates and attached them to the chains. 17 He erected the pillars in the front of the temple, one to the south and one to the north. The one to the south he named Jakink and the one to the north Boaz.

[rb336]

Danny, Elganned:

If you want to create a thread about what is and isn't in the bible, do it. stop hijacking this thread