Detroit Ended its Streetcar Operation 53 Years Ago Today.

[Mikeg]

A lot of people don't realize that GM was actually the main reason that the streetcars went out both here in Detroit and in other major cities. They were pretty evil about it. Their whole deal was to sell busses, so they put out all this bad press about streetcars and how dangerous they were and how pedestrians were getting killed waiting in the street for them, etc.
I think that Chicago actually sued GM over this?

Those are some mighty serious accusations you are making. How about providing some documentation and references to back them up? I thought that Detroit was one of the few cities in the nation to have a publicly-owned transit system. How did GM manage to surreptitiously take over the DSR and make the decision to replace the streetcars with buses and trolley buses? If this was the result of a deliberate corporate conspiracy, how do you explain away the fact that hundreds of thousands of Detroiters bought their own personal vehicles in the 1920s through the start of WW II, even though they lived within a half-mile from a streetcar line?

Maybe there is a reason that "A lot of people don't realize that GM was actually the main reason that the streetcars went out......" - it isn't true!

[Bigb23]

Granted, people will always question Wikipedia, but there are always source links to follow up on.

This is something I've been hearing about for 30 years, and the Internet helps me make my own judgment.

The Great American streetcar scandal [[also known as the General Motors streetcar conspiracy and the National City Lines conspiracy) is a conspiracy in which streetcar systems throughout the United States were dismantled and replaced with buses in the mid-20th century as a result of illegal actions by a number of prominent companies, acting through National City Lines [[NCL), Pacific City Lines [[on the West Coast, starting in 1938), and American City Lines [[in large cities, starting in 1943).

National, which had been in operation since 1920, was organized into a holding company and General Motors, Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California, Phillips Petroleum, Mack, and the Federal Engineering Corporation made investments in the City Lines companies in return for exclusive supply contracts.[1] Between 1936 and 1950, National City Lines bought out more than 100 electric surface-traction systems in 45 cities,[2] including Detroit, New York City, Oakland, Philadelphia, Phoenix, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, Tulsa, Baltimore, Minneapolis, and Los Angeles,[3] and replaced them with GM buses. American City Lines merged with National in 1946.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_A...eetcar_Scandal

[Mikeg]

Between 1936 and 1950, National City Lines bought out more than 100 electric surface-traction systems in 45 cities,[2] including Detroit......[3]

Bigb23, those Wikipedia source links take you to:
[2] a page where this text was lifted from verbatim with no references or footnotes, only links to other Wikipedia articles
[3] a page that no longer exists and which had been a personal web page belonging to an AOL customer

So where are these Wikipedia source links and other sources that we can follow up on and which prove that a GM conspiracy resulted in the demise of Detroit's streetcars? Where is the proof that GM/National City Lines bought out the DSR?

[iheartthed]

Bigb23, those Wikipedia source links take you to:
[2] a page where this text was lifted from verbatim with no references or footnotes, only links to other Wikipedia articles
[3] a page that no longer exists and which had been a personal web page belonging to an AOL customer

So where are these Wikipedia source links and other sources that we can follow up on and which prove that a GM conspiracy resulted in the demise of Detroit's streetcars? Where is the proof that GM/National City Lines bought out the DSR?

National City Lines didn't buy out Detroit Department of Street Railways. DSR still exists today, but it's called DDOT. But DSR was not the only street car operation in Detroit. What happened to Eastern Michigan Railways? [[The only information I can find about it is that part of the operation was sold to DSR, but nothing explains what happened to the rest of it. Was it bought by National City Lines?)

But National City Lines did buy up a lot other street car lines around the country at about the same time period that DSR went completely to buses. In fact, National City Lines was sued about 10 years before DSR completely dismantled its streetcar operations for trying to establish a monopoly over public transportation services in major cities [[United States v. National City Lines, http://www.altlaw.org/v1/cases/770576). So isn't it a bit curious that, just several years after the largest employer in the city was sued for trying to monopolize the public transit market with motor buses, the Detroit Department of Street Railways miraculously decided to change to an all motor bus fleet?

GM may not have bought DSR, but that's only because they didn't have to buy them. DSR was already in their pockets.What's the difference between Detroit funneling all of its money to GM in 1956, at a higher cost than what it needed to spend on its public transit operations, and Detroit funneling contracts to Bobby Ferguson in 2006 at a higher cost than it needed to spend?

[Rocko]

One thing I have yet to check on is a little wedge of DSR owned right of way at Toledo and Clark on the southwest side. One of the DSR lines went down Toledo through here. At Clark, Toledo is offset such that the streetcars would not be able to make the sharp turns if staying within the street, so the streetcar tracks had a more gentle "zig zag" to go from Toledo east of Clark to Toledo west of Clark. The track went through an empty lot in the NE corner of the intersection. That lot is still empty today, which makes me think there could still be rails through there, but I have yet to confirm...

...anyone know if there are still any reminants there or be willing drive by there sometime to check it out?

[iheartthed]

One more thing, does anyone else see the irony in that Detroit dismantled its streetcar system and sold it off to Mexico City, and just several years after Detroit did that Mexico City beat out Detroit's bid to host the Olympics?

[Bigb23]

In citing a Wikipedia article, nothing is always set in stone. There is always the opportunity for rebuttal and rewrites for erroneous articles. That said, here's some other opinions and links.

Mike Gorman's letter in the Dec. 22 issue takes issue with my op-ed in which I mentioned the National City Lines Between 1936 and 1950, National City Lines [[NCL), a holding company sponsored and funded by General Motors, Firestone Tire, Standard Oil of California and Phillips Petroleum, bought out more than 100 electric surface-traction [[streetcar) systems in 45 cities [[including New conspiracy that helped destroy thousands of urban rail systems in the United States to make the world safe for General Motors Corp. He called it a "rabid conspiracy theory." However, National City's actions are widely known and well documented, and the proceedings are part of public record.

In May 2005, Ed O'Rourke posted a succinct summary of the NCL in the National Catholic Reporter, noting that an excerpt from an Oct. 2, 1946, letter of the Department of Justice to J. Edgar Hoover , describes the illegal activity:


"Investigation of the complaints disclosed the probable existence of a systematic campaign by National City Lines, acting with its manufacturing shareholders, to secure control over local transportation systems in various cities.... One result of the plan for integrated control over local transportation has been the elimination of electric railway cars in city transportation controlled by these companies."

On April 9, 1947, a federal grand jury unsealed two counts of criminal conspiracy against GM, National City Lines, Firestone Tire & Rubber Co., Phillips Petroleum Co., Mack Manufacturing Co., Standard Oil Co. of California and others.

On March 12, 1949, the jury delivered its decision. On Count 1, which was conspiracy to secure control of transit systems, they were found not guilty. On Count 2, which was conspiracy to monopolize the transit business for their own oil, tires and buses, they were found guilty as charged.

The defendants appealed all the way to the Supreme Court, but the convictions from the second count stood.

The National City Lines episode, in severely restricting transit choices for Americans and locking the country into development patterns almost utterly dependent on private automobiles and their attendant infrastructure, was a major factor in both devastating to the property tax base of the nation and in making us hostages to the oil market. Their success, and the modesty of the punishment they received from the court, fed the arrogance that led them, and us, into the sorry state we are all in today. It's nothing to dismiss out of hand.

Richard Risemberg

Los Angeles

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Settin...r)-a0192852147



And a list of all the links you could ever look at on the subject.

https://listserv.temple.edu/cgi-bin/...t-gold&P=54635

[Mikeg]

National City Lines didn't buy out Detroit Department of Street Railways

Well, that's not what Wikipedia says! Honestly, why even bother citing it when you readily admit that it is prone to rebuttals and re-writes. An "encyclopedia" that can change minute by minute and whose "facts" and "sources" are dependent on who made the last entry is totally worthless.

You guys might have a little more credibility if you were willing to concede that "evil" GM wasn't "actually the main reason" that the streetcars disappeared from the streets of Detroit. If you approached this with an open mind instead of a trying to blame it entirely on a corporate conspiracy, you'd find that there are a number of reasons for what happened.

Despite the fact that they worked for automakers like that "evil" GM, the very workers who made their cars were somehow able to afford them and they purchased them in droves. Their autos gave them the freedom to go wherever and whenever they wanted, without having to stand out in the elements and then stand some more in crowded streetcars. The streets of Detroit were already congested with commercial vehicular traffic serving the local industries and businesses and the increasing numbers of personal vehicles didn't help the situation. Despite the traffic congestion, commuters voted with their feet... errr cars, and the ridership of the poorly managed DSR started declining prior to WW II, which only brought a temporary reprieve. After the war, traffic planners decided that they could relieve the traffic jams on the major roadways by implementing curbside bus service and converting the streetcar tracks to reversible traffic lanes. Too bad they didn't stall on that decision for a few more years until after the expressways were finished....

GM's bus-related manufacturing divisions and National City Lines were bit players in what happened here in Detroit. If you must have a scapegoat, it would be far more rational to blame it on GM and the other auto manufacturers for giving the average middle-class worker an affordable personal transportation alternative to public transportation. However, you would also have to place an equal amount of blame on the leadership of the DSR [[and their unions) for not effectively managing their operations and providing a clean, comfortable and competitive alternative to stem the decline in ridership.

But I really have to ask, what purpose does it serve to try and place blame on something that happened more than a half-century ago in a city that now has less than half the population and jobs it did back then and a totally different set of transportation patterns and needs today?.