Detroiters demanding federal help

**rondinjp** · October-07-09, 01:14 PM

The really sad part that is not mentioned in this article is that if all 25,000 applications are turned in and processed each person will only be receiving ~$600.

The amount given will not even help most of these people pay their monthly rent/mortgage.

**guito13** · October-07-09, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by rondinjp

The really sad part that is not mentioned in this article is that if all 25,000 applications are turned in and processed each person will only be receiving ~$600.

The amount given will not even help most of these people pay their monthly rent/mortgage.

I was watching the fiasco at Cobo from my office today...it looked like chaos over there!

I am all for people getting help but I wonder how many of those people there are truly trying to find work/better themselves and how many are there just looking for another handout? Also, where is the help for the suburb people who are hurting? It is not a Detroit only issue here...

**exdetroiter** · October-07-09, 02:08 PM

If they comb through the applications and actually pay the applicants a visit, the will be able to determine whom is scamming or not.

**mkhopper** · October-08-09, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by guito13

I was watching the fiasco at Cobo from my office today...it looked like chaos over there!

I am all for people getting help but I wonder how many of those people there are truly trying to find work/better themselves and how many are there just looking for another handout?

I'm saddened by the fact that this was also my first thought. I had to stop to wonder how many of these people were at the casinos just hours before trying to double their welfare checks.

**SWMAP** · October-07-09, 02:15 PM

It did seem from my observation point, that 15,000 people were there. Some media coverage said that many thought that $3,000 would be provided to the applicants today. This is reminiscent of last month's misunderstanding by a similarly huge number of people that DTE would be "paying bills" for customers who went to an energy help expo at the Fairgrounds.

I have to wonder that so many Detroiters think you can get, essentially, something for nothing - that there is so much naivete here.

**Blueidone** · October-07-09, 02:38 PM

I heard on one report that people only qualify if they can prove that they can continue to pay their payments after the government assistance runs out. My guess is that many of them cannot do that.

The problem occurs when word of mouth spreads that there is money being "given away" when the people doing the spreading don't know all the details of the programs.

**Diehard** · October-07-09, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Blueidone

The problem occurs when word of mouth spreads that there is money being "given away" when the people doing the spreading don't know all the details of the programs.

THIS.

I overheard a guy on the bus saying he was going to "get my Obama money."

Check out the photos. It's absolute mayhem.
http://detnews.com/article/20091007/...r-federal-help

**SWMAP** · October-07-09, 03:12 PM

I don't think that the runmor promoters are the problem - its that so many Detroiters believe in such fast, simple fantasies! That is a big problem in our city. People seem like children who have to have the facts of life explained over and over!

**Zacha341** · October-07-09, 08:39 PM

There was a percentage of the same folks that used go to the casinos for "that" free-bie pie-in-the sky. Now the to the next fix. Some people from taking off from work to get the apps from my place of employment! Taking off from "work"???

Originally Posted by SWMAP

I don't think that the runmor promoters are the problem - its that so many Detroiters believe in such fast, simple fantasies! That is a big problem in our city. People seem like children who have to have the facts of life explained over and over!

**Quonset Hut** · October-07-09, 07:09 PM

Bring back the Government Cheese!

**Lowell** · October-07-09, 10:41 PM

I think this thread is being dismissive of the fact that there were many people in need who were there just for that reason.

As subsequent reports show, order was maintained, everybody got an application and the submission date was extended. They were not demanding; they were applying.

The real take away from this story is that there is a large and growing sector of very economically desperate people in our metro. Who among us would spend a day, maybe ride a bus to get there, to get only a ~chance~ at a few hundred dollars?

This episode should be cause for mild alarm not guffaws. There are no jobs, few on the horizon and even fewer middle class jobs.

**vetalalumni** · October-07-09, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

I think this thread is being dismissive of the fact that there were many people in need who were there just for that reason.

As subsequent reports show, order was maintained, everybody got an application and the submission date was extended. They were not demanding; they were applying.

The real take away from this story is that there is a large and growing sector of very economically desperate people in our metro. Who among us would spend a day, maybe ride a bus to get there, to get only a ~chance~ at a few hundred dollars?

This episode should be cause for mild alarm not guffaws. There are no jobs, few on the horizon and even fewer middle class jobs.

Thanks for stating that Lowell.

**exdetroiter** · October-08-09, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by vetalalumni

Thanks for stating that Lowell.

I agree with both of you, but on another note a lot of this has to do with people talking and not having all the details, example in point, before the DTE fiasco at the State Fair there was the same fiasco at DTE in Hamtramck. I heard via my sister that DTE was clearing out peoples bills. I got excited because I have a $2500.00 bill that I am paying monthly for last years service. I wanted to rush over there after work, but that would have involved lots of other arrangements, i.e. getting my child from school, homework and dinner. I calmed down, when she called from their and said it only applied to those whom are below the proverty level.

**Bobl** · October-08-09, 09:35 AM

This is serious, and sad. How many of us older forum members would have believed that this third world scene would take place here, if we were told twenty years ago?
Just as sad is this dismissive attitude some have towards these unfortunate people. True, there were some who tried to scam others. Probably some who were simply looking for cash for drugs, or whatever. Most were obviously out of luck, out of a job, and nearly out of hope.
The unemployment rate in Detroit is comparable to that of the great depression. What is lacking today, in many cases, is the safety net provided by family and neighbors. Neighbors often don't even know each other now, and too many families are fractured.
I certainly do not have a quick answer, but perhaps we should take another look at the so called "free trade" treaties that have exported jobs, and question why we can spend [[and lose) billions of dollars in places like Iraq, while maintaining half a million troops across the globe. Do we really need tens of thousands of soldiers in Germany?
If money is to be spent, spend it here. If jobs can be created, create them here.
Meanwhile, a little less smugness, and more empathy toward those less fortunate would cost nothing.

**Novine** · October-08-09, 09:48 AM

"I had to stop to wonder how many of these people were at the casinos just hours before trying to double their welfare checks."

You really believe that's what most people do?

**guito13** · October-08-09, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Bobl

Meanwhile, a little less smugness, and more empathy toward those less fortunate would cost nothing.

I havent seen any smugness here. I even said I am ALL FOR people getting help. What I am NOT for is people who make no effort and simply live of the system and EXPECT to be taken care of. Hell, I could be one of the people who needs help tomorrow. I truly feel sorry for the people who are TRYING to get ahead and simply cannot in todays economy. I do NOT feel sorry for people who just want something for nothing.

I have always said that people who receive assistance should be given a job [[as long as they are able bodied), even something like cleaning the sides of streets, in order to get their money. This would be a good way to filter out the people who are willing to work for their money v. the people who want a handout.

Lorax · October-08-09, 09:54 AM

Also not being addressed in this thread is the responsibility of the corporations who put us in this place.

They are given every advantage by our national government in the form of corporate welfare, tax breaks, not paying tariffs to import their goods manufactured in China, and we're left with a broke-ass population without jobs, savings, worthless homes, and no future.

Then we allow another group of wealthy corporations to feed off the bones of what's left by opening casinos.

Where's the responsibility of those in control?

At a point in time, when the individual realizes that there is no hope for a job, a home, a family, a future, then it automatically becomes "blame the victim time?"

Wall street is showing profits now due to an uptick in global business, not here in the US. We've been abandoned by our own corporations, and our government made the mistake of bailing out Wall Street at the expense of Main Street.

Until gross profits by Goldman Sachs, among others is kept in check, the banks are nationalized, and we have universal health coverage, then nothing will change, and the lines for handouts will only increase. It's a self-perpetuating cycle, which to me is obvious, but until we demand lobbyists are thrown in jail for bribing our elected officials, [[then jail the officials for taking the money) we are consigned to the ash can of history.

**Lowell** · October-08-09, 10:34 AM

"Then we allow another group of wealthy corporations to feed off the bones of what's left by opening casinos."

Soylent Green for dessert anyone?

For several years now there we have heard the phrase "race to the bottom".

Well guess what? Yesterday we witnessed a whole bunch of people hitting that bottom all at once.

What we can't see is the hidden pitter-patter of individuals, one-by-one but by the thousands in aggregate, hitting bottom every day in small towns, suburbs and byways across the country.

**guito13** · October-08-09, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

"Then we allow another group of wealthy corporations to feed off the bones of what's left by opening casinos."

Soylent Green for dessert anyone?

For several years now there we have heard the phrase "race to the bottom".

Well guess what? Yesterday we witnessed a whole bunch of people hitting that bottom all at once.

What we can't see is the hidden pitter-patter of individuals, one-by-one but by the thousands in aggregate, hitting bottom every day in small towns, suburbs and byways across the country.

I tend to agree with most of what you say here. I must say that people must also take some accountability for their actions too. If you DONT have the money to spend then DONT go to the casino. They are not pointing a gun at your head and telling you to lose your money.

We do need to change our policies so that imports are taxed similar to how foreign countries tax our goods when imported. We need to stop caring about what other countries think about us and start taking care of our own.

**Sstashmoo** · October-08-09, 10:38 AM

Quote: "This episode should be cause for mild alarm not guffaws."

True.

Quote: " by the thousands in aggregate,"

Yes, really puts a face on the issue.

Hopefully, Americans will take a proactive stance and not take this lying down. This can be fixed and why it isn't should be the real cause for alarm.

Why our president harped about the very causes of this for two years behind a podium, and now after elected has opted to put it on the back burner. There is the real cause for concern. Who the hell is running this show? There is a definite architecture and intelligent control. These are not accidents or oversights.

**digitalvision** · October-08-09, 10:54 AM

I have slightly more than mild alarm [[what would they say at the Thai restaurant, Mild Plus?)

Some ideas:

Unemployment in the black population in Detroit is in the neighborhood of 30%, double that of 1967 [[about 15-16% at the time).

People in the community were losing their houses en masse due to lack of income. They are today, with values collapsing on the houses they do have.

In 1967, while new plants had been built a few years before in unaccessible suburbs to blacks, now they've been built in unaccessible Mexico, China, et all, with the same results: opportunities were being shut down to workers.

The second most important reason 1967 rebellion happened was poverty - in many ways, if the people hadn't been so poor, it's possible they wouldn't of been so desperate. You mix poor AND the inequalities [[to put it lightly), and kaboom. It may not be a racist police force, but it very well could be something else today.

I personally think it's a tinderbox looking for a match. Cobo was a warning shot - there's been some other issues, too. When wild rumors persist like what did, it's a sign of lack hope. People with no hope are the most dangerous, and we have lots of poor in America in that position right now who are almost completely unemployable in today's economy and are hopeless.

**bailey** · October-08-09, 11:15 AM

This is serious, and sad. How many of us older forum members would have believed that this third world scene would take place here, if we were told twenty years ago?

I think a majority of people would not be surprised if told in the 80s that yesterday's scene would happen. The writing has been on the wall here for at least that long, if not longer. It's the collective sense of entitlement coupled with severe denial that have worked in tandem to create the disaster that is today's Detroit.

crawford · October-08-09, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by digitalvision

The second most important reason 1967 rebellion happened was poverty - in many ways, if the people hadn't been so poor, it's possible they wouldn't of been so desperate. You mix poor AND the inequalities [[to put it lightly), and kaboom. It may not be a racist police force, but it very well could be something else today.

This is just silly.

The African American population in Detroit in 1967 had the highest median household income of AAs in any major U.S. city.

They had the highest homeownership rate of AAs in any major city.

By 1967, AA's dominated some of Detroit's nicest neighborhoods, including Arden Park, Boston Edison, Dexter Davison [[don't laugh, it was good back then) and many others.

They were beginning to move into Aviation neighborhood, and the prosperous areas of NW Detroit [[they were already the majority around Marygrove College, which was a VERY nice neighborhood). They were starting to move into the UofD area too. This is a top-notch area [[even today, fairly nice).

It's probably fair to say that Detroit had the richest black population on earth in 1967.

While I dion't really understand the WHY behind 1967, I am confident that it was not because the richest blacks on earth were drowning in "poverty."

And, if you think this is the primary motivation, then why did these poverty-stricken souls respond by burning down their own neighborhoods?

Originally Posted by digitalvision

I personally think it's a tinderbox looking for a match. Cobo was a warning shot - there's been some other issues, too. When wild rumors persist like what did, it's a sign of lack hope. People with no hope are the most dangerous, and we have lots of poor in America in that position right now who are almost completely unemployable in today's economy and are hopeless.

In 1967, people were organized, believed in direct action and had systemic grivences.

The folks hanging out at Cobo for a handout are, by and large, completely incapable of organization.

They generally live chaotic, unfocused lives, and are pretty much permanent wards of the state. We should try and save their children. This generation is hopeless.

Now if something ever did happen in Detroit similar to 1967, it wouldn't scare anyone outside of the city. It would just confirm everyone's suspicions, and the few middle class people left would all leave.

**Red Devil** · October-08-09, 06:54 PM

Yes manufacturing is close to dead but after all that money we've printed off the dollar is falling, imports are going to be more expensive, and the USA might have to export its way out of this mess. Let's designate Detroit as a Special Economic Zone [[just like the ones in developing countries). Heck, maybe even make it autonomous

Lorax · October-08-09, 07:00 PM

When people have little left to lose is when you get anarchy.

But first there has to be focus of the anger and the attention. In Detroit that could be several things- it could be city hall, wealthy business owners, corporate headquarters.

For anyone who thinks it can't happen in Detroit, or elsewhere, think again.

Here in Miami the anger and hopelessness is palpable. Drivers are angry, people in service jobs are angry, municipialities are layering on the tax increases to make up for lost revenues due to property tax decreases and foreclosures. Stores and restaurants are closing at an alarming rate.

Florida, for the first time in it's history lost more population than it gained in 2008. This year it will be even more. Our schools, which were suppose to benefit from billions from the state-run lottery over the last decade or so ranks at the bottom, or near bottom in every category.

Immigration is a growing issue, not from those coming in as much as those stuck without day labor. You can tell by the dozens more hanging out at Home Depot and Lowe's waiting to be picked up for any kind of labor.