Michigan Central Depot ideas

[E hemingway]

It seems like the answer to every blighted building in Detroit is either tear it down or completely rehab it. It appears that a complete rehab of the Michigan Central Depot is not likely in this economy and in this city, but sudden demolition is not the answer either. This thread is all about the third, fourth and fifth options.

What are your ideas for the Michigan Central Depot? Feel free to post any out-of-the-box, off-the-wall idea that comes to mind. Yeah, these will probably be just pie-in-the-sky thoughts, but we as a community should be putting a lot more thought into what we can do with something as big as Michigan Central Depot before we demolish it.

My idea, turn it into a ruin park like Lowell originally suggested the city do with all of its abandoned skyscrapers. Secure the building enough so people can walk in certain places of it, even let them go all the way to the roof and take in the views. It's already a tourist attraction, why not capitalize on it. Let Metro Parks run it since there isn't a Metro Park in the city and we pay for parks that are mostly in the exurbs. Let artists put temporary works of art on it as way of beautifying it and making it something we can be proud of at least some of the time.

That's my crazy idea. What's yours?

[E hemingway]

I like that idea Daytwa. The only way I would amend it is turn the ground floor into a park/historic museum and then offer the upper floors to a developer. There might be interest in creating residential or office space there if there is a viable institution on the ground floor.

[DetroitDad]

-Start with the buildings along Michigan. What is popular for rentals right now is cheap apartments above store fronts. New buildings and rehabbing what is on those two blocks between 14th and 17th could be done by large developers or individual entrepreneurs with plans for the retail space. The retail that would need to go here would have to be complement each other, similar to how the auto shops already on Michigan Ave. provides customers to the restaurants while they wait for their cars to be fixed.

-The park would have to be made into a good landscaped park again, serving multiple uses. Playgrounds, rentable picnic shelters, and athletic track stations could be built for Corktown residents.

-Small starter single family housing, row houses, and brownstone style homes would be built surrounding the park on the East and West.

-The old book depository could have a many uses that should be explored based on the economy. A grocery store could be possible, as could a parking garage, lofts, or warehouse space. Demolition could also be an option. if the building is that bad, and the space could be utilized for neighborhood expansion in the future. The North end of the warehouse block could be utilized for parking or more homes fronting the new Roosevelt Park.

-Rose Street should be eliminated to provide an extra block of housing.

-The old hotel on 14th could be used for apartment space or a community center, but demolition of the back two wings may be better off demolished for secured parking or gardening/play space, and only the front portion saved.

-Restoration of Michigan Central Station itself would be dependant on the success of the surrounding area, and would be founded by the rent and sale of the other properties surrounding the park. Ideally the first floor station would be renovated first, occupied by multi-use office/work space at first, but eventually switching to retail later on.

-The waiting room would be rented out similar to the GM Winter Garden for events, and the concourse would be used as a grand ballroom for concerts and wedding receptions. It may or may not be possible to install room dividers in these large spaces.

-The front entrance of the station should be used for drop offs and some parking, an area should be provided for wedding or other gatherings.

-The rear entrance should be accessible to parking by a mezzanine, with the rail tracks no longer abutting up to the structure.

-It may be possible for housing or storage space in the empty rail lots, or parking.

-The tower itself should be used for office and residential mixed, and provide an atmosphere similar to a Western Lafayette Park.

-Quite garden trails for seniors to walk, or for dog walking should surround the lower lying areas of the building, as well as a pool or rental picnic shelter in the old cab stand area. Parking should occupy the streetcar area to the East.


When building an urban neighborhood, the following should be considered:

1. The neighborhood has a discernible center. This is often a square or a green and sometimes a busy or memorable street corner. A transit stop would be located at this center.
2. Most of the dwellings are within a five-minute walk of the center, an average of roughly 1/4 mile or 1,320 feet [[0.4 km).
3. There are a variety of dwelling types — usually houses, rowhouses, and apartments — so that younger and older people, singles, and families, the poor, and the wealthy may find places to live.
4. At the edge of the neighborhood, there are shops and offices of sufficiently varied types to supply the weekly needs of a household.
5. A small ancillary building or garage apartment is permitted within the backyard of each house. It may be used as a rental unit or place to work [[for example, an office or craft workshop).
6. An elementary school is close enough so that most children can walk from their home.
7. There are small playgrounds accessible to every dwelling — not more than a tenth of a mile away.
8. Streets within the neighborhood form a connected network, which disperses traffic by providing a variety of pedestrian and vehicular routes to any destination.
9. The streets are relatively narrow and shaded by rows of trees. This slows traffic, creating an environment suitable for pedestrians and bicycles.
10. Buildings in the neighborhood center are placed close to the street, creating a well-defined outdoor room.
11. Parking lots and garage doors rarely front the street. Parking is relegated to the rear of buildings, usually accessed by alleys.
12. Certain prominent sites at the termination of street vistas or in the neighborhood center are reserved for civic buildings. These provide sites for community meetings, education, and religious or cultural activities.
13. The neighborhood is organized to be self-governing. A formal association debates and decides matters of maintenance, security, and physical change. Taxation is the responsibility of the larger community.

[E hemingway]

Wow, DetroitDad. You put a bit of thought into that. It reads like a long-term master plan for the neighborhood instead of a just what to do about Michigan Central Depot. I like it. I also agree with Daytwa about thinking realistically, but I wanted this to be more like a brainstorming session, I guess. No idea is too outlandish to talk about right now as far as I am concerned.

[detourdetroit]

I agree with this sentiment.

It is pretty clear that the state of the building is such that restoring it to its former glory would be cost prohibitive, even in a great economy. The best chance for doing something comprehensive with serious funding may have been lost with the casinos building elsewhere. Just take a look at the MGM footprint, bulk and height and make the comparison. What is so ironic about MCS is that one of the few people in the region that actually has the resources to pull off a restoration of the building currently owns it. Only in Detroit...

That said, it's important to understand however, that Michigan Central presents yet another opportunity to build understanding for a third way to progressively manage historic assets. As opposed to the Lafayette which because of size, condition and proximity to the CBD is much better candidate for renovation, MCS could show us a way to tell a new story about Detroit. As mentioned below, the building in its current state generates income for the city and the state through its use as a movie backdrop and tourist destination. We lose those dollars with the building gone. It would be interesting to do a thumbnail analysis of how much economic activity the building currently generates.

Of course I wouldn't be opposed to putting the building out for an RFP to see if anyone can come up with something else, but I think a more productive use of the preservation community's time is to make a case for how the building, even in repose, as others have suggested, is good for Detroit's soul. Instead of being ashamed by MCS, we should use it to tell a different story about the city. What about these uses:

The backdrop for an outdoor concert venue?
Continuing use for the movie industry?
Interpretive tourist destination?
Armature for world class light installation?

Are the Romans embarrassed to have the Colosseum, Forum or Baths of Caracalla in their midst? Are the Peruvians aghast at the ruinous state of Machu Picchu? No, vestiges of societies' past informs and bolsters the richness of life today.

Stabilize it? Yes. Secure it? Yes. Clean it? Yes. Interpret it? Yes. Demolish it? No.

[Gsgeorge]

This is my idea from the other thread.

I am sad to see that this demolition is being rushed through, but who are we kidding -- this has been coming for some time now. Maroun's negligence has allowed one of the great pieces of American train station architecture to fall to ruin. But the two sides are looking at this too "one way or the other". There seem to be only two options here -- demolish, or develop.

I for one think the building needs to go -- but not all of it. It is obvious that no developer is about to come in to fix this thing up, and Maroun certainly isn't going to -- he hardly puts a few thousand into securing the place & fixing the fence, let alone redevelop it. It would cost upwards of $200 million to redevelop the structure. Even without its 13-story office tower, the costs would stay around the same -- you would have to secure the lower levels, carefully dismantle the tower [[no easy feat) and then you would have a cavernous concourse & mezzanine for--what? A shopping complex? Basketball courts? I don't think so. Not to mention its distance from the CBD is a hinderance. There are not many options here.

I adore the MCS, and will be sad to see it go -- but I propose a reasonable solution that may help the residents in Corktown, look good for the city, and allow the preservationists some degree of consolation. Preserve the front facade wall, remove the windows and doors, and expand Roosevelt Park onto the land where the concourse & mezzanine once stood. This radical solution would give Roosevelt Park a similar appearance as the Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco, where towering baroque columns and a huge atrium dominate a pleasant public space with trees & gardens. Our MCS facade would not be nearly the size of San Francisco's jewel, but it would give the area a much better appearance and actually be an asset to the community. This is the key here -- would we rather have a gravel lot where an architectural gem once stood, or a sculpture, a monument of what once stood, and a beautiful public park where residents & visitors can relax and enjoy the green space and views of the city & bridge. A true asset for the Corktown neighborhood, and Detroit.

And let's be realistic -- it will cost way more than $3.5 million to demolish this hulking tank of a structure. So if we're heading into the $8-$15 million category, it is worth an extra $1-$5 million to preserve the facade & improve the park.

To get an idea of my solution, take a look at this picture of the Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco:
http://www.traveltripz.com/wp-conten...-fine-arts.jpg

I really like the idea of using the waiting room space as an outdoor concert venue! Dismantle the roof and keep some of the surrounding elements, like the front facade, interior columns, etc, and it would be a great outdoor venue space.

Let's be honest here. A kind of "ruins park", where you could browse the ruins of the building legally, go to the roof, etc, is pretty unrealistic. So is seeing the building redeveloped. Somewhere in between there, the concert venue idea, the park clubhouse idea, and my idea for a public plaza/gardens, I think these are more viable & realistic. But let's keep hearing them. I know there are lots of ideas out there. I am not sure if anyone who is "in charge" is reading this thread, but it's good to get the ideas out there.

[DetroitDad]

I love the idea for a concert venue. What would be the solution to the noise pollution it would inflict on nearby residential areas? That could be a problem.

[Lorax]

There are some great ideas here, I personally like the one which turns the MCD into a semi-ruin folded into a park-like setting. A large low ground-fountain in the park in front, flower beds, perhaps a large botanical garden, stands of trees, the elimination of the tower portion of the station- all could make a creative and economical re-invention of the site.

And definitely let the Metropark system handle the maintenance. In fact, turn the entire project over to them with a nationally known landscape architect in charge, and throw in Belle Isle to sweeten the deal.

[LodgeDodger]

Why don't we ask Matty what his plans are for the building?

Matty?

[4real]

A Prison. For crooked politicians

[Burnsie]

Huggybear wrote, "he can use the rail right of way he bought to operate the train tunnel as a truck tunnel."

Moroun doesn't own the [[still active!) railroad tunnel, or the right of way leading up to it. Up to a point near the depot, the R/W is owned by Conrail Shared Assets. Past that point, it and the tunnel are owned jointly by Canadian Pacific Railway and Borealis Infrastructure Management, Inc.

Moroun *may* own the tracks over the train shed area, but not the main line.

[Rocko]

Burnsie, you're 100% correct.

And this is just another area where the potential "demo" on the MC falls short. The active mainline leading between the Tunnel mouth and W. Detroit Junction sits on top of the baggage and mail rooms, which is integrated and a part of the structure of MC. I bet not council person considered that limitation. Matty only owns the station and the land immediately behind it where the trainsheds once were.

[Blarf]

Turn it into a giant pillow factory.

[Retroit]

In keeping with the train theme, would there be enough room to top this:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e98_1237657552

[ddf313]

Three thoughts:

1. Isn't the building on the Historic list, making it impossible to tear down?

2. I always pictured all of the empty streets around their with 3 story flat/apartment type buildings. Can Corktown handle the extra population?

3. I think MCS could serve as an end-of-the-line for the Woodward Light rail. The line could make its way to the river, and head west through the newly developed WEST waterfront and up to the station.

I don't think it looks that unrepairable. It reminds me of pictures I saw of the Book-Cadillac.

[Lorax]

DTW is correct, Matted Moron needs the good PR of doing something positive with MCD, but unfortunately he's got the reputation of Mussolini and Ebenezer Scrooge combined, but without the glitter and good looks.

The Matted One has enough coin to rehab, market, and support the MCD through eternity, however, being a business person first, and last, it's his job to make YOU pay for it.

Whenever a right wing fascist can drink from the public well, they are all too happy. Moron is just as guilty as the next corporate ass pirate of taking welfare when it suits him.

The difficulty here is HOW he's perceived in the public's eye is of no conern to him. Reputation good or otherwise doesn't interest him. Only money does. And the richer they are, the cheaper they are. So until the city, county, or someone else ponies up the cash, he's not interested. The only other answer is to simply seize the station.

The city needs to take the MCD away from him, and turn it over to someone who can make a go of it. They have Moron dead to rights on endangering the public, ignoring citations, and can take the property through eminent domain. What they're paying a city attorney for, I don't know, but he's not worth a crap if he hasn't tried this avenue yet.

Better yet, maybe PETA should do an ad featuring Matted Moron wearing the carcasses of dead buildings on his back- with their reputation for shocking ads, it might work.