Hardin

[Gannon]

I dunno, as long as he's exhaling...I'd give him room to learn and grow some.


I know that is liberal thinking and feeling, but I stand on my mantra that love conquers all.

While I sound as if I've come to the end of my rope with Cc often, I wouldn't continue engaging him if I didn't think there was any hope for him...and those who think like him.


Cheers

[elganned]

I engage him because misinformation and poor logic must be countered.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

[ccbatson]

When did I repeat myself with the liberal using emotions in place of critical thought comment?

[elganned]

Every single post, seems like...

[ccbatson]

Rigghht..."seems like it"...but it isn't, not even close.

[Lorax]

Well, at least you're convincing in some areas- misinformation mainly.

[oladub]

elgannad, Going back to your post 39, the IRS and the Federal Reserve could be catagorized differently in that the Constitution was amended to legalize the income tax but never amended to authorize a banker owned entity, the Federal Reserve, to regulate national monetary policy. I generally agree with you that it is a bad idea, but not an unconstitutional idea, to privatize local or national security forces although at least one community in NJ has a private police force and Jean Lafitte did an admirable, almost admiral [[trying to work in a pun here), job of fighting for the US.

Detroitej72 wrote: Good thing we Obama as president, as he clearly sees that as a constitutional scholar.

Right. You are correct in clasifying Obama as a 'constitutional scholar' rather than as a constitutionalist in the sense that criminal lawyers understand criminal law in order to sometimes get around it. Obama has also talked about amending the Constitution to include a "positive bill of rights" to expand the role of government from to securer of our rights to a provider of benefits.

[ccbatson]

Very good point Oladub. Obama is intent on circumventing the constitution and studied it in order to learn how to do it.

[elganned]

Yes, Cc, I'm sure that's what he had in mind all along, from the moment he could pick up a pencil. [[You do understand how conspiracy-theory-absurd that reads, don't you?)

[Lorax]

Very good point Oladub. Obama is intent on circumventing the constitution and studied it in order to learn how to do it.

Fearing a constitutional law professor, but giving a pass to a war-mongering fascist thug born of corrupt dynastic wealth in George Tush.

Just about sums it up.

[oladub]

Fearing a constitutional law professor, but giving a pass to a war-mongering fascist thug born of corrupt dynastic wealth.

Just about sums it up.

Wow, I didn't know that Obama was a professor. I thought he just taught constitutional law. Just because President Obama is rapidly expanding the war in Afghanistan and received almost a million campaign dollars from his largest campaign contributor, Goldman-Sachs, there is nor reason to denigrate him as a
" war-mongering fascist thug born of corrupt dynastic wealth." After all, he is a winner of the Peace Prize and, according to you, a professor.

[Lorax]

Wow, I didn't know that Obama was a professor. I thought he just taught constitutional law. Just because President Obama is rapidly expanding the war in Afghanistan and received almost a million campaign dollars from his largest campaign contributor, Goldman-Sachs, there is nor reason to denigrate him as a
" war-mongering fascist thug born of corrupt dynastic wealth." After all, he is a winner of the Peace Prize and, according to you, a professor.

Yeah, as a matter of fact he was.

Sorry, but Goldman wasn't Obama's "largest campaign contributor" as you assert.

Goldman was Tush's Treasury Secretary Skank Paulson's beloved firm, though, and the entire reason why Goldman finds themselves in the cat-bird seat today. Thanks so much, fascist thugs.

No corporation is allowed to give "almost a million" dollars, there are limits, in case you haven't heard.

I was referring to George Tush, your dear leader in that last bit. Guess you missed that.

[ccbatson]

Paulson is, and was a lib...Bush's mistake was to go along with his recommendation on bailouts

[elganned]

I find it difficult to understand how a man who spent his entire adult life buying and selling abstract financial instruments for a Wall Street bank can by any stretch of the imagination be categorized as a "lib".

[Lorax]

Paulson is, and was a lib...Bush's mistake was to go along with his recommendation on bailouts

LOL!!!

Now you've completely given up!

Paulson a "lib?" LOL!!!

Amazing. The man who held up a two-sheet document to congressional leaders and said either the fed gets the TARP monies or there will be anarchy in the streets.

Then allowed Lehman Brothers to fail, so his old buds at GS could walk away with billions.

Paulson made over 600 million bucks on this deal, and don't forget it. He fearmongered congress into getting this bailout for his cronies, and succeeded in the largest bank heist in US history. Grow up.

[oladub]

Obama never made it past "senior lecturer". The U of Chicago says that senior lecturers are "regarded as" professors but he was not tenured. Nor was he a professor. There is a difference between "is" and "regarded as". But have it your way. Was he a assistant professor, associate professor or full professor - or a senior lecturer? "In colloquial language, usage of the term may refer to any educator at the post-secondary level, yet a considerable percentage of post-secondary educators are hired as lecturers or instructors, not as professors." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profess..._United_States

Goldman was Tush's Treasury Secretary Skank Paulson's beloved firm, though, and the entire reason why Goldman finds themselves in the cat-bird seat today. Thanks so much, fascist thugs.

Paulson wasn't the only reason. The Obama administration is owned by Goldman Sachs to the extent the Bush admionistration was.
Despite President Barack Obama's pledge to limit the influence of lobbyists in his administration, a recent lobbyist for investment banking giant Goldman Sachs is in line to serve as chief of staff to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?...&page=1&page=1
The list of former Goldman Sachs employees holding top positions in the Obama administration includes:

• Mark Patterson, a former Goldman Sachs lobbyist, who is the chief of staff to Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner [[himself the former president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York).

• Reuben Jeffery III, former managing partner at Goldman Sachs, who holds the post of undersecretary of state for economic, business, and agricultural affairs.

• Neel Kashkari, former Goldman Sachs vice president, who is the assistant secretary of the treasury for financial stability, responsible for administering the TARP funds.

• Dianna Farrell, former financial analyst at Goldman Sachs, who serves as deputy director of the National Economic Council.
Record pay and profits at Goldman Sachs

No corporation is allowed to give "almost a million" dollars, there are limits, in case you haven't heard.
Sorry, but Goldman wasn't Obama's "largest campaign contributor" as you assert.
You're right. Goldmann Sachs was his second largest contributor.

"Goldman Sachs employees gave just shy of a million dollars to the Obama campaign, ranking second in contributions. Citigroup and JPMorgan ranked sixth and seventh. Goldman Sachs gave Obama four times more than they gave McCain."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ostertag/goldman-sachs-obama-money_b_177611.html

I was referring to George Tush, your dear leader in that last bit. Guess you missed that.

Poor guess. I voted for Ralph Nader in 2004. I'm also on record as saying that Obama is an improvement over Bush.

[Lorax]

It's no mystery as to where Obama's finiancial team came from, does that mean I approve? No.

You gleefully post all of this as if you're knocking down my idol- sorry to disappoint, but no idol worship here. Obama isn't socialist enough for me.

When did I ever say I was a supporter of Obama's? Never.

I think he was the better choice over McShame, and I voted for him, but my candidate was Dennis Kucinich, as I have said many times on this forum.

And Obama was a professor, associate or otherwise. Parse semantics if you like.

I was never defending him beyond the point of the post I was responding to.

Tush was an unmitigated disaster, and a danger to national security.

Goldman Sachs did not give a million bucks to the campaign, it's illegal. And Neel Kashkari was already there, when Bush was in office, as was Geithner and Summers.

Read this:

Corporate and Union Activity

Even though corporations and labor organizations may not make contributions or expenditures in connection with federal elections, they may establish Political Action Committees, or PACs. Corporate and labor PACs raise voluntary contributions from a restricted class of individuals.

In the case of unions, this consists of union members and their families.

For corporations, the restricted class consists of managerial employees and stockholders and their families. These funds may be used to support federal candidates and political committees, either through independent expenditures or through contributions to candidates.

A PAC is limited to a maximum contribution of $5,000 to a candidate committee per election.

Although prohibited from using their resources to "expressly advocate" the election or defeat of federal candidates, or to make contributions directly to candidates or parties, corporations and labor organizations may conduct a variety of activities related to federal elections, in addition to those conducted through a PAC.

Though they may not use general treasury funds to pay for "electioneering communications" - broadcast ads referring to candidates for federal election without expressly advocating their election or defeat – in the 60 days prior to a general election, or 30 days prior to a primary election, they may advocate for political issues and mention federal candidates while doing so, if outside the 30/60 day time frame for "electioneering communications," or at any time through non-broadcast media.

They may also engage in certain non-partisan voter registration and get-out-the-vote campaigns.

[Detroitej72]

Paulson is, and was a lib...Bush's mistake was to go along with his recommendation on bailouts

You have stated Bush was a liberal in previous postings. Hank Paulson is a Republican, as is Bush, therefore, birds of a feather cling together.

You can always trust a Republican to be, well, a Republican, where party and ideology take precedence over principles.

[oladub]

Lorax claims, "And Obama was a professor, associate or otherwise. Parse semantics if you like"

ok. It must have been 'otherwise' unless you can show that he was an associate professor. Let's compromise and call him an "otherwise professor" instead of a "professor". Its sort of the difference between "plastic wood" and wood. I still prefer the non-colloquial and semantically more precise term "senior lecturer".

I was not arguing that there is a $5,000 limit on PACs. I wrote that Obama recived almost $1M from Goldman Sachs as did the quote you disregarded, "Goldman Sachs employees gave just shy of a million dollars to the Obama campaign, ranking second in contributions. Citigroup and JPMorgan ranked sixth and seventh. Goldman Sachs gave Obama four times more than they gave McCain."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ostertag/goldman-sachs-obama-money_b_177611.html
I suppose the Huffington Post should also have clarified that the money did not come from a Goldman Sachs PAC but rather by going around that requirement by collecting the money directly from Goldman Sachs executives. The point remains that Goldman Sachs is as much a part of the Obama administration as it was the Bush administration. Voting for Kucinich in the primary is commendable, but if you voted for Obama in the general election you perpetuated the Goldman Sachs dynasty.

[ccbatson]

There are far too many liberal Republicans...including those that I mentioned [[and McCain). Better understood if you think of them as Teddy Roosevelt style progressives...almost as bad as FDR style liberal Democrats.

[Lorax]

Obama is more of a conservative than he is a liberal, and your assertions that he's in the back pocket of GS may confirm this.

Being a dyed in the wool socialist, I understand that Obama has to pay the corporate piper who put him in office, including the banking/investments of those including George Soros, who is a chief investor in One West Bank.

This so called bank is a hedge fund in reality, which purchased the good mortgages from bankrupt Indymac Bank at 50 cents on the dollar, and is now foreclosing on the homes of thousands to collect on that investment.

Apparently there is a "round robin" going around the ABA stating that One West is off limits for class-action suits, since this was the gift to Soros & Company for their efforts in getting Obama elected, [[Move-On.Org, etc.)

So the people who hold these loans are screwed.

Obama should be beloved by the conservatives, since the bailouts of Wall Street should feed their love of CEO worship and corporate welfare handouts, which conservatives have been handing out for years before Obama.

Funny how we have to beg and scrape for a public health care "option" which is the watered down version of a single payer system we should be getting, while Wall Street gets to go home with the goods.

So the people get screwed again.

[oladub]

Lorax, It never ends. Fox have been hired to guard the chicken coop. I doubt that it would have been any better under McCain either.

"WASHINGTON -- The Securities and Exchange Commission tapped Goldman Sachs Group Inc. executive Adam Storch on Friday to serve as the agency's first-ever chief operating officer of the enforcement division."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1255..._whats_news_us 10/16/09

[Lorax]

Lorax, It never ends. Fox have been hired to guard the chicken coop. I doubt that it would have been any better under McCain either.

"WASHINGTON -- The Securities and Exchange Commission tapped Goldman Sachs Group Inc. executive Adam Storch on Friday to serve as the agency's first-ever chief operating officer of the enforcement division."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1255..._whats_news_us 10/16/09

Do I disagree? No.

Only it would have been worse under McCain. Can you imagine the gridlock in congress? Democratic supermajority, and a right-wing white house? And Palin a heartbeat away from the presidency? LOL!!!

She's not qualified to do anything more than head up the Wasilla PTA meeting.

[ccbatson]

Obama is still a socialist...he has a bigger picture view and incorporates the concept of corporate socialism into his strategy, however, the endpoint and goals are the same.

[elganned]

Cc, I've concluded that, in your worldview, anyone not baptized into the Objectivist Church must ipso facto be a socialist.

Since that embraces 90% of the population, I guess Obama's in good company.