Penske Saturn deal fell apart, GM will be closing dealerships.

**iheartthed** · October-01-09, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by sirrealone

If Penske didn't have the manufacturing side of things lined up, he never should have held a press conference announcing that he wanted to take on Saturn. I don't know the details or where the blame lies in why this deal couldn't get done, but Penske is to blame for getting the hopes up of all of these workers when he apparently had no business doing so. For that, his reputation and the positive things he's done takes a big hit in my eyes.

Well, the blame lies with the shareholders in Renault-Nissan, who voted against the Saturn deal, thus killing the entire project.

**sirrealone** · October-01-09, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Well, the blame lies with the shareholders in Renault-Nissan, who voted against the Saturn deal, thus killing the entire project.

I'm not disagreeing with you that in part, the blame lies there. But, Penske never should have had a press conference announcing anything until he had the Renault-Nissan deal finalized. He blew it.

**iheartthed** · October-01-09, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by sirrealone

I'm not disagreeing with you that in part, the blame lies there. But, Penske never should have had a press conference announcing anything until he had the Renault-Nissan deal finalized. He blew it.

What did he announce at the press conference? That a deal was 100% certain? I didn't see it so I don't know.

But once the deal went to vote it was public information anyway. He was probably trying to control the media narrative, so that they would cast the deal in the best possible light for the shareholder vote.

**tahleel** · October-01-09, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by wazootyman

A minor correction - the 2008 Vue and newer is an Opel Antara. The 2007 model I own [[the original body style with some styling updates in 2006) was designed by Saturn as far as I know.

If you have the 3.5L V6 in your Saturn Vue, it is powered by the Honda J35A3 motor.

Oh no, evil Honda motor in my Saturn. Evil, evil, evil! Must burn entire car now...

-Tahleel

**lpg** · October-01-09, 02:21 PM

We have had 2 Saturns. A 1997 sl2 lease car which we liked so well that when we turned it in we purchased a 2002 sl2. Both cars took us all over the lower 48 with no problems.

**401don** · October-01-09, 03:37 PM

I'm confused. Penske already has lots of foreign dealerships. In two yrs GM would stop supplying Saturn and Saturn would effectively become a Foreign Car Company [[owned by an American) competing with Ford and GM. Shouldn't we be celebrating that this deal collapsed? This deal would have been no different than Ford announcing it will only sell Korean made cars with all engineering, etc. done overseas.

**FlyingJ** · October-01-09, 05:32 PM

pkbroch, you're making Crawford's point FOR him

"There is a commercial on TV, concerning credit rates it's called Creditreport.com.. Many times when I try to visualize some of the off the wall folks on Dyes, I see those young boys on the commercial"

I thought you're coming from a pro-American angle? Those guys on your creditreport.com spot? They're Canadian-you know, where they take work AWAY from Americans. The lead guy is Quebecois-hardly understands English, just lip synchs the whole thing[[cooked up by an ad agency in Richmond, VA)...he doesn't even understand the product he's pimping-because they don't have that in Canada-and b.t.w. Consumerist.com reports is a Big Fat Scam;
http://consumerist.com/5064518/yet-a...reditreportcom

AFTER it was revealed it's Canada the next FreeCreditReport spot had them all riding around a giant American flag. Ha!;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h47kQuAOvUs

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050100131.html
http://adweek.blogs.com/adfreak/2007...edit-repo.html

**alsodave** · October-01-09, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by 401don

I'm confused. Penske already has lots of foreign dealerships. In two yrs GM would stop supplying Saturn and Saturn would effectively become a Foreign Car Company [[owned by an American) competing with Ford and GM. Shouldn't we be celebrating that this deal collapsed? This deal would have been no different than Ford announcing it will only sell Korean made cars with all engineering, etc. done overseas.

Celebrating this?

...13,000 jobs may be lost.

Better out of a job than working for "foreigners"?

**softailrider** · October-01-09, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

So [[taxpayer-owned) GM should keep the financial black hole that is Saturn for a while, and Penske should invest millions in a company that may not have cars to sell in a few years? Brilliant idea, are you Roger Smith or something?

No shit, Saturn was a money loser from the get go. It's one of many reasons G.M is in the type of shape it's in. They should have cut their losses and deep sixed it a long time ago.

It's like going to the casino, sitting down at the blackjack table and getting clobbered from the start. You can sit there like a dummy and keep pulling 100 dollar bills out of your wallet hoping the next one will put you on the road to getting even, or, you can do the smart thing- go home and cut your losses. You had a bad night, try and be smarter next time.

**davewindsor** · October-01-09, 11:04 PM

So what is the Saturn brand name and proprietary rights worth and what do you think Penske offered? $100 million just for the name and proprietary rights?

If I were to dream and imagine myself as Penske, I wouldn't touch a money loosing brand like Saturn. If I really wanted to manufacture a brand, I'd go after one of the classic luxury brands, where the real margins are. For the past year, Gullickson has been trying to sell off the Packard brand with a 1998 functional Packard 12 prototype for $1.5m. http://www.luxist.com/2008/08/08/pac...type-for-sale/ Screw money losing Saturn. Bring back Packard!

**Cincinnati_Kid** · October-02-09, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Just because Saturn is being phased out, does not mean that the entire lineup will be as well. It would not surprise me one bit to see a "G.M Vue" or other rebranded models over the next few years.

That would be one of the worst decisions GM could make. Re-badging cars, and bad management is why they are in their current position. I thought this was suppose to be the "New GM" ??

**wazootyman** · October-02-09, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by tahleel

If you have the 3.5L V6 in your Saturn Vue, it is powered by the Honda J35A3 motor.

Oh no, evil Honda motor in my Saturn. Evil, evil, evil! Must burn entire car now...

-Tahleel

Yes, it is the V6 [[the GM L66 aka the Honda J35A3), though my original intent was to purchase the 4-cyl manual; unfortunately, you can't find a loaded 4-cyl model on any lot, and I didn't have the patience to wait 6 weeks for delivery. If I had the 4-cyl, would you have called me out for having an engine designed by Opel [[the GM Ecotec L61) paired with an Aisin transmission [[a Japanese company)? Both engines are built in this country [[the V6 in Ohio, the 4-cyl in Tennessee).

My wife's Aura has a GM LY7 engine, manufactured in Flint, with a 6T70 transmission [[designed by GM & Ford in partnership), manufactured in Sterling Heights - as confirmed by the sticker [[Origin: United States). These, and the 80% domestic content, were key factors in our decision to purchase the car.

But I gotta ask: does it make you feel like more of a man to be such an ass on an Internet Forum?

-Wazootyman

**elganned** · October-02-09, 07:49 AM

Oh, lighten up. Nobody pissed in your cornflakes.

He was just poking some fun at the knee-jerk "if it's not AMERICAN, it's CRAP!" attitude displayed oh-so-amply by some on the forum.

Go take an aspirin and lie down for a while. You'll feel better.

**bailey** · October-02-09, 08:28 AM

Wow, I'm surprised this thread got this far without a discussion of how the UAW effectively killed the Saturn brand and all the innovations at Spring Hill. you guys are slipping.

**Cincinnati_Kid** · October-02-09, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by bailey

Wow, I'm surprised this thread got this far without a discussion of how the UAW effectively killed the Saturn brand and all the innovations at Spring Hill. you guys are slipping.

The UAW didn't kill Saturn, the bean-counters mismanaged and poorly marketed Saturn..Saturn has some very good products in their lineup now, the Vue, Outlook and Aura, now they decide to eliminate them. Saturn reminds me of another car GM poorly managed in the 80"s the Fiero. When it first came out they had major quality issues, underpowered engines......etc. When they finally got the car right in 1988 the best year produced, they decide to kill it. GM habitually makes bad decisions that the UAW and their employees get blamed for.

**darwinism** · October-02-09, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by wazootyman

Yes, it is the V6 [[the GM L66 aka the Honda J35A3), though my original intent was to purchase the 4-cyl manual; unfortunately, you can't find a loaded 4-cyl model on any lot, and I didn't have the patience to wait 6 weeks for delivery. If I had the 4-cyl, would you have called me out for having an engine designed by Opel [[the GM Ecotec L61) paired with an Aisin transmission [[a Japanese company)? Both engines are built in this country [[the V6 in Ohio, the 4-cyl in Tennessee).

My wife's Aura has a GM LY7 engine, manufactured in Flint, with a 6T70 transmission [[designed by GM & Ford in partnership), manufactured in Sterling Heights - as confirmed by the sticker [[Origin: United States). These, and the 80% domestic content, were key factors in our decision to purchase the car.

But I gotta ask: does it make you feel like more of a man to be such an ass on an Internet Forum?

-Wazootyman

Your post above, wazootyman, shows exactly what is wrong with some of the anal attitudes in the "Foreign Cars[[Linked)" thread.

So, your Saturn Vue's V6 engine comes from the Honda plant in Ohio ..... which according to the "guidelines" means that the "profits" go straight to Japan. Are you doing to kick it to the curb ? Of course not.

tahleel is not being an ass - and elganned is right about the "if it's not AMERICAN, it's CRAP!" attitude displayed oh-so-amply by some on the forum.

**piczka** · October-04-09, 01:53 PM

Penske is lucky he got out of this one unscathed. What the hell are he and Serra thinking? Would they ever consider bringing back Plymouth or Desoto? It's over, and GM is not far behind.