Intellectual conservatism, RIP

[rb336]

Which proves only that you don't listen to either, and are thus not qualified to make such a judgement. I'm not a fan of either, but I'm not enough of a partisan hack to paint with such a broad brush, either

i've listened [[and read) enough of their drivel to know that neither has enough intellect to say anything approaching rational

[ZRX Doug]

I rest my case.

[elganned]

Does it make me happy to see Obama fail when it seems that 90% of his proposed "successes" will damage my country in one way or another?
What do you think?

Being happy when/if he fails on one of the measures you seem to feel will damage the country is understandable. But being happy because he failed to convince a sports committee to send the Olympics to Chicago? Please.

Save the high-fives for when he fails in something that matters. Expending your glee over something this small and non-significant just makes you look petty and mean-spirited.

[Lorax]

Lorax, you might want to give proper credit to Paul Krugman for using his op-ed.

Sorry, I cut and pasted so fast, that part fell off- corrected now.

[ZRX Doug]

Being happy when/if he fails on one of the measures you seem to feel will damage the country is understandable. But being happy because he failed to convince a sports committee to send the Olympics to Chicago? Please.

Save the high-fives for when he fails in something that matters. Expending your glee over something this small and non-significant just makes you look petty and mean-spirited.

Read the first half of my post..I think the Olympics would have been a pricey boondoggle at a time when we can't afford another one..not something I'd have cheered for, regardless of which politician went begging for it.
BTW, who says I'm NOT petty and mean-spirited?

[1KielsonDrive]

Maybe I missed something earlier in this thread. Isn't 'Intellectual Conservatism' an oxymoron in this day and time? I thought 'Intellectual Conservatives' died out. I remember nice, considerate, well spoken, conservatives when I was growing up. My father was one of them. I don't remember him ever casting stones against gays, blacks, the poor, union members, or any other groups. He and I wrestled with the war in Vietnam, the counter culture, drug usage, etc. He attended church, tithed and did other acts for the less fortunate. My dad was no saint, by any means, but he wasn't hateful. He never told me his politics or religion required him to think in a certain way.

[rb336]

Read the first half of my post..I think the Olympics would have been a pricey boondoggle

I think they are a waste of money, personally. can't think of any long-term gains host cities have made. The winter games sure did Sarejevo/Sarajevo a lot of good

[elganned]

BTW, who says I'm NOT petty and mean-spirited?

Well, you do have a point, there...

Anyway, I don't really care for the Olympics anyway, so I'm glad he failed, too. But it's the "Sure am glad that guy next door finally got rid of that ugly-ass Buick. Now I don't have to look at it every morning." variety, not the "Sure am glad we barely managed to avoid that typhus epidemic" type.

It's a matter of scale and proportion. Some things are worth celebrating, some just warrent a shrug and a mumbled, "Good." This whole Olympics thing falls solidly in the latter category. Why the right-wing talking heads are making such a big thing about it is beyond me.

[elganned]

Maybe I missed something earlier in this thread. Isn't 'Intellectual Conservatism' an oxymoron in this day and time? I thought 'Intellectual Conservatives' died out.

Actually, no. The thoughful and intellectual ones are unfortunately just not the ones who are monopolizing our national conversation. I too have known thoughtful, considerate, but staunch conservatives in my time [[my father was also one), and I even know a few today which I enjoy crossing wits with.

[ccbatson]

How do you fair in those sessions where you cross wits with conservatives Elganned?

[Lorax]

How do you fair in those sessions where you cross wits with conservatives Elganned?

You should know.

What? Aren't the welts on your rump enough to turn tail and move on?

[Pam]

Why the right-wing talking heads are making such a big thing about it is beyond me.

Because they hate the Pres. and want to see him fail at everything.

[elganned]

How do you fair in those sessions where you cross wits with conservatives Elganned?

I "fair" [sic] quite well, thank you.

They--like some others I could name, even some on these boards *ahem*--have voluntarily restricted themselves to a limited number of tools in the box, and so are forced to manipulate all situations until they fit the tools they have chosen. As the old saying goes, "When the only tool you have is a hammer, all problems look like a nail."

Unfortunately for them, there are any number of problems unsuited to the application of blunt force trauma, if you will. So I have a myriad of openings to attack, for some of which they have no defense.

Occaisonally they convince me on a point, and occaisionally I win them over on a point. It's usually mutually instructive and thoroughly enjoyable.

[Detroitej72]

Don't the leaders of the conservative movement discourage intellectualism? That's why their leader, Chairman Limbaugh has named them ditto heads, to discourage learning, thus its easier to control the gullible.

[elganned]

Depends on which "conservative movement" you're talking about.
Neo-cons? Yes, independent thinking is discouraged.
Old-Line [[what I would call Goldwater) Conservatives? They are usually erudite and have well-thought-out positions.

In the end, I find that I and Goldwater Conservatives hold the same values--we just weight them differently on the priority scale.

[ccbatson]

Already inconsistent Elganned. You have nothing in common as far as ideology with a Goldwater conservative based on your posts here.

I would love to see you get taken apart in a debate with a conservative. Heck, we could spot him the total number of points minus 1 and you would still get trounced.

[Lorax]

Already inconsistent Elganned. You have nothing in common as far as ideology with a Goldwater conservative based on your posts here.

I would love to see you get taken apart in a debate with a conservative. Heck, we could spot him the total number of points minus 1 and you would still get trounced.

Hah!

Find a "conservative" a real one, not what passes for one today.

Hearing crickets.

Aren't they an endangered species?

Extinction is the only viable alternative.

[Detroitej72]

Already inconsistent Elganned. You have nothing in common as far as ideology with a Goldwater conservative based on your posts here.

And you do?

Barry is turning over in his grave if your what his party has become...

[Detroitej72]

I would love to see you get taken apart in a debate with a conservative. Heck, we could spot him the total number of points minus 1 and you would still get trounced.

If we went by what your dear leader, Rush defines as a conservative, you'd be torn to shreds as well, thanks for playing...

[elganned]

Already inconsistent Elganned. You have nothing in common as far as ideology with a Goldwater conservative based on your posts here.

Since you are not one, you are in no position to judge. But then that never has stopped you--or even given you a moment's pause--has it?

I would love to see you get taken apart in a debate with a conservative. Heck, we could spot him the total number of points minus 1 and you would still get trounced.

*shrug* And I would love to see you try to make a living as a janitor working a second job as a bartender at night, with no health benefits.

Maybe then you'd have a true appreciation of what "bootstrapping" looks like from the perspective of the one who has to do the heavy lifting.

But I guess we'll neither of us get our wish, will we?

[ccbatson]

I can go you many better than that...how about a concrete demolitionist using hand tools only, or a lumbar yard grunt milling for 10 hours, or a roofer, or a nurses aide assigned to bed pan duties, or an intern working 42 hours on 10 off for 2 months....need I go on? All things I have done with enthusiasm building to the point at which I now gladly find myself.

[Lorax]

How delightfully smug!

Now give a little back since you've made your millions.

How about volunteer work?

I'm sure doctors without borders could use a trained physician such as yourself.

Or how about Keith Olbermann's support of the mobile health care initiative? He's contributing 10k per event they hold to help out with the expenses of providing health care to the poor and indigent. Certainly you can match that? Or volunteer?

I won't hold my breath.

[elganned]

Perhaps you misunderstood, Cc: I didn't ask what you did when you were young and stupid and had no responsibilities. As it happens I de-tassled corn for 14 hours a day and shoveled shit in a stable when I was younger, but none of it is relevant.

You remind me of that Monty Python routine called Four Yorkshiremen where they are all telling how hard they had it growing up [["There were 15 of us, and we lived in an envelope by the side of the road...we worked so long and so hard we had to get up half-hour before we went to bed...")

I said make a living now as a janitor with a second job at night. Let's throw in an added bonus, shall we? and say you have two children at home and you live in a crappy neighborhood where you've gotten ripped off twice in the last year.

Nothing like a dose of poverty to sharpen your mind's focus.

[ccbatson]

Been there, done that...if I had to do it again, I would do so with fervor.

[Lorax]

Doing poverty with fervor?

Guess there's something to be said for that!