Robert Bobb 2.0: Consolidate districts to Detroit-Wayne Regional Schools

[bailey]

Uh no, the percentage drop does not matter at all in the context of what we were discussing. We were discussing the attractiveness of living in Metro Detroit. My point was that if Metro Detroit were so attractive then it would ideally cost more to buy in an affluent suburb in the Detroit area than a ghetto in Los Angeles. But as I have pointed out, it does not always cost more to buy in an affluent suburb in Detroit than it does to buy in a ghetto in Los Angeles. Sure, there are some cases where it costs more to buy in suburban Detroit, but that is beside the point. The point is that you can live buy into a tony suburb [[i.e. one of the most desirable places to live locally) in Detroit for the same price as it costs to buy a house in a California ghetto.

So, if one can buy a house for less money than in Watts, California anywhere else in the United States... that, by your definition, means fucking WATTS is a more "desirable" location. because if that is your argument... we can just stop now as it's pretty stupid.

Watts is expensive DESPITE it's shitty-ness. It's expensive because everything around it is astronomically expensive. If you want say CALIFORNIA [[home to 38 million people) as a whole is more desirable than Michigan and that raises the prices for everyone who wants to live there I'd agree. However, your premise makes no such allowances and is saying it's either BH or Watts. I mean really you've basically just said that Watts is more 'desirable' than Chicago because you can find tons of houses in Chicago that are cheaper. you cant be serious.

You are also aware that California leads the nation in foreclosures and was the leading edge of the artificial real estate boom too right?

Median home prices:
Neighborhood Jun - Aug '09 yr-over yr 1 yr prior
Watts $120,350 -53.8% $260,310
Los Angeles $289,000 -27.7% $400,000

So, is a -53.8% median home price fall evidence of desirability?

[iheartthed]

So, if one can buy a house for less money than in Watts, California anywhere else in the United States... that, by your definition, means fucking WATTS is a more "desirable" location. because if that is your argument... we can just stop now as it's pretty stupid.

Watts is expensive DESPITE it's shitty-ness. It's expensive because everything around it is astronomically expensive. If you want say CALIFORNIA [[home to 38 million people) as a whole is more desirable than Michigan and that raises the prices for everyone who wants to live there I'd agree. However, your premise makes no such allowances and is saying it's either BH or Watts. I mean really you've basically just said that Watts is more 'desirable' than Chicago because you can find tons of houses in Chicago that are cheaper. you cant be serious.

You are also aware that California leads the nation in foreclosures and was the leading edge of the artificial real estate boom too right?

Median home prices:
Neighborhood Jun - Aug '09 yr-over yr 1 yr prior
Watts $120,350 -53.8% $260,310
Los Angeles $289,000 -27.7% $400,000

So, is a -53.8% median home price fall evidence of desirability?

.........What? Why do you insist on using the percentage drop in prices for California to make a point about the desirability of California? It doesn't mean anything within the confines of this [[side) discussion. A larger percentage drop in California than Metro Detroit could be attributed to any number of things. It could be that more people were willing to pay astronomical prices to live in California than were willing to do so to live in Metro Detroit... which comes back to my point again.

Comparing the city of Chicago to a neighborhood in Los Angeles is silly. I don't even know why you brought that up. Anyone who is even slightly familiar with Chicago would know that there are areas of Chicago that are more desireable than Watts, and probably some areas that are less desireable... Chicago is a large city, and Watts is a neighborhood within a large city.

But I don't get the feeling that you have a firm grasp on some very elementary mathematical concepts needed to fully understand this discussion, so I'll stop now.

[crawford]

That's all Crawford's conversations exist on is the "brown people are coming" mantra. His posts always reflect a reference of "decline" or indifference in regards to shifts of demographics, education, housing or anything involving said "brown people" . He's a closet racist. Nothing positive ever comes out his "piehole"

You do know I live in a city that is almost 100% "brown people", right? A city with 20 times the "brown people" of Detroit?

You got me all figured! I hate them brown people so much, I got up and moved from Bloomfield Hills to Mexico City! Makes a hell of a lot of sense!

[crawford]

Why do you continue to twist what I said? I said that you can buy a house in a ghetto in California for what it takes to buy in a tony suburb in Metro Detroit. Pointing out that Riverside, Ca has houses listed below $100K is moot. [[And using Riverside, Ca to make a point about southern Cali is like using Ypsilanti to make a point about southeast Michigan.)

For the record, I didn't single out Bloomfield Hills, you did. I could make the same point using pretty much any of the "affluent" communities in Oakland County. But just to entertain you... Lo and behold, on Yahoo real estate I see houses in Bloomfield Hills that are priced similarly to houses in Watts. For instance:

Bloomfield Hills --
http://realestate.yahoo.com/Michigan..._gGD1JyPpn47Qs

http://realestate.yahoo.com/Michigan...nQ_XO4q1hn47Qs


Watts --

http://realestate.yahoo.com/Californ...rQnFuG_S5n47Qs

http://realestate.yahoo.com/Californ...6sgsvKRDdn47Qs

So as far as I'm concerned, point made.

No, you don't know what you're talking about.

The first home [[which may or may not exist, because there's no info or street address, just a price), is by definition not in Bloomfield Hills proper, because it's the wrong zip code.

The second home is a condo, not a single family home, and it's clearly in Bloomfield Township.

So wrong, and wrong. Try again.

[bailey]

A larger percentage drop in California than Metro Detroit could be attributed to any number of things.

But that doesn't support your argument that sticker price is the final arbiter of 'desirability" now does it? You are taking a number [[price) and ignoring the whole host of factors that go into it.

With regard to the percentage drop, I was simply pointing out that you are relying on prices that do not reflect reality. Watts home values have deflated considerably and median home prices there are considerably lower than BH.

It could be that more people were willing to pay astronomical prices to live in California than were willing to do so to live in Metro Detroit...

Which I agree with. there are more people in LA county than the whole damn state of Michigan in a fraction of the land mass. It's going to automatically equal higher prices for scarce resources. My point refutes yours that BH and Watts are comparable in a vacuum..which you are apparently still saying.

Comparing the city of Chicago to a neighborhood in Los Angeles is silly. I don't even know why you brought that up.

As is comparing Watts to Metro Detroit and claiming its more desirable to live in watts than metro detroit because it's expensive. It's not a straight line between the two. In any event, it wasn't that complicated. you said Watts is more desirable than Metro Detroit based on nothing else than the price of a home there. I'm simply stating that many areas of Chicago..not just the ghetto [[nice generalization btw), have relatively reasonable real estate prices. It was meant to point out the absurdity of your position. apparenlty went over your head.

But I don't get the feeling that you have a firm grasp on some very elementary mathematical concepts needed to fully understand this discussion, so I'll stop now.

Please do, as I don't think you have a grasp of reality...let alone mathematics.

[iheartthed]

No, you don't know what you're talking about.

The first home [[which may or may not exist, because there's no info or street address, just a price), is by definition not in Bloomfield Hills proper, because it's the wrong zip code.

The second home is a condo, not a single family home, and it's clearly in Bloomfield Township.

So wrong, and wrong. Try again.

Bloomfield Hills:
http://realestate.yahoo.com/Michigan...34PgtJIh1n47Qs

Watts:
http://realestate.yahoo.com/Californ...ifP.Wpoqdn47Qs

[iheartthed]

As is comparing Watts to Metro Detroit and claiming its more desirable to live in watts than metro detroit because it's expensive. It's not a straight line between the two. In any event, it wasn't that complicated. you said Watts is more desirable than Metro Detroit based on nothing else than the price of a home there. I'm simply stating that many areas of Chicago..not just the ghetto [[nice generalization btw), have relatively reasonable real estate prices. It was meant to point out the absurdity of your position. apparenlty went over your head.

I said that a house costs as much in a ghetto in California as does in a tony suburb in Detroit. You still have yet to disprove that. Show me a tony suburb in Chicago or New York where you can buy a house for the same amount as you can in Watts, California. If you can do that then you have made a point. Otherwise, you're just grasping at straws.

[bailey]

I said that a house costs as much in a ghetto in California as does in a tony suburb in Detroit. You still have yet to disprove that. Show me a tony suburb in Chicago or New York where you can buy a house for the same amount as you can in Watts, California. If you can do that then you have made a point. Otherwise, you're just grasping at straws.

Weelll... lets see here... Lake Forest, IL "tony" enough? I believe your number was 300k?

Lake Forest is a city located in Lake County, Illinois, United States, and is one of the most affluent communities in the United States, and ranked within the top three communities of the Central United States along with Winnetka, Illinois. The population was 20,059 at the 2000 census.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...045_1104656703
4 br 1.5 baths... 299,900.

[iheartthed]

Weelll... lets see here... Lake Forest, IL "tony" enough? I believe your number was 300k?


http://www.realtor.com/realestateand...045_1104656703
4 br 1.5 baths... 299,900.

Great job!

Now let's see how many houses I can find in other tony Metro Detroit suburbs for $300K... You keep searching tony suburbs in Chicago. We'll compare notes at the end.

[bailey]

deleted because it makes my head hurt to continue this discussion.....

[iheartthed]

What would be the point when I already proved you wrong?

Well, you didn't prove me wrong because I didn't say that it doesn't exists in Chicago. [[I also don't know enough about Chicago to even prove that the house is indeed in a tony Chicago suburb.)

But you did damage my argument a little, if we all fundamentally agree that Chicago is viewed as a more attractive area than Detroit [[for the sake of argument). But I can strengthen my argument against the evidence that you provided by providing evidence that what you found was an outlier, and not a broad rule. How many houses can you find in tony Chicago suburbs for that amount?

As you are well aware, I can find plenty of houses in tony Detroit suburbs [[not just BH... I wasn't the one who specifically named BH) for around the $300K mark. I can find no houses that are [[realistically) selling in a Detroit ghetto for $300K. But I can find a few that are selling in Californian ghettos for around the $300K mark.

[iheartthed]

deleted because it makes my head hurt to continue this discussion.....

Aww, don't give up now! You're almost there!

[DetroitDad]

So what do you guys purpose?

I've sat in at the meetings [[a joke) and I've read or talked to some people who should have been knowledgeable on the subject. The best answer I ever get is some spiel about how parents need to be more involved, and better principals need to be hired. I'm lost on this one.

What is the main cause of the problems, what needs to be done, how can it be done, and what do we need to do it?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

No, there aren't. You are lying. Please show me ONE home in Bloomfield Hills [[foreclosed or not) listing for $200,000.



Again, you are lying. Please show this alleged $190,000 home in Bloomfield Hills. Hell, show me a $290,000 home in Bloomfield Hills [[city proper, not township).

I have a feeling you don't even know what Bloomfield Hills encompasses. It is NOT Bloomfield Township, and it is definitely NOT all places with a Bloomfield Hills address.

Bloomfield Hills is a tiny community of about 4,000 residents, with a median family income of about $250,000, and a mean home price well over $1 million in 2008 [[and much higher in past years).

There is fairly limited housing in Bloomfield Hills for under half a million. A good-sized house on a regular lot cannot be had for under a million.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/37...24500381_zpid/

Hey Crawford, If you need more proof, let me know, this one's on the low end, plenty more though. BTW, Quarton Road runs thru Bloomfield Hills, in case you didn't know, Oh, I forgot, you know everything.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Just like I figured.

[Kevgoblue]

So what do you guys purpose?

What is the main cause of the problems, what needs to be done, how can it be done, and what do we need to do it?

Great question, DetroitDad. A question rarely asked and even more rarely answered.
Many would attribute the problems of DPS to be a bunch of low motivated, undereducated parents who expect no more from either their children or the district.
Others would attribute the problem to a scenerio where the vast majority of positive factors were removed from the enviornment. Those being business and the associated tax revenue, followed shortly thereafter by the more educated and affluent citizens. This left Detroit in the unenvious position of being disproportionately both poor and undereducated.

I guess the answer to your question is up in the air until someone determines what the actual problem is.