Bye Bye Michigan Central Depot!!

**jtf1972** · April-12-09, 05:03 PM

I have been trying to find an email I sent to the council several years ago regarding the future of MCS, but can't locate it. The only member to reply was the current mayor, and he & I had a nice email conversation about it. [[To be fair, Watson's email address wasn't working. Funny, the only member I knew personally & I couldn't even contact her!)

Essentially I outlined the importance of MCS to Detroit and what it could be. Once demolished it will be gone forever, and today another beautiful and grand structure would never be built. The best we could get would be a generic glass building that could go anywhere.

Examining the usage of other older stations, they no longer tend to be viable for only rail service. What would be the harm in making it a transit center, which would be the hub for both Amtrak & Greyhound? This wouldn't be enough to make it a viable use, but with additional restaurants and shopping it could work. Detroit has talked for years about needing a mall of its own and what would be better than remodeling the office tower into retail usage with a movie theater? This sort of conversion has been done before, and there is plenty of vacant land surrounding MCS for parking structures.

Detroit is a CITY and should look to other major cities to see what has worked to make them viable rather than use the suburban model of strip malls & parking lots. It's one thing to have Washington's Union Station in use, but other cities have realized what their older rail stations are worth also. Are we really less of a world-class city than Kansas City? They saved their Union Station and it is beautiful. As it has been pointed out, people are attracted to MCS even though there is nothing there but a monument to Mouron's policy of not giving a damn. To me, this could be the nexus of a successful Detroit.

I am very depressed right now.

dexterferry · April-12-09, 05:15 PM

Omaha saved their art deco train station as well. Is Detroit a lesser city than Omaha?

**wolverine** · April-12-09, 05:21 PM

I many categories of functionality, yes.

**Russix** · April-12-09, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by jtf1972

I am very depressed right now.

Don't be depressed, stimulus money is not going to be given to us to destroy something that is actually adding to our economy. Only the deeply disturbed believe something positive arises out of blatant destruction and waste. Although this mentality infects the locality, the national scene does not accept this. Can you imagine the reaction from the national news media if they gave us money to knock something down that's been sitting there for 20 or so years? The destruction of MCS does not stimulate anything and the money will never come from Washington. They are however spending lots of money on rail station improvements. If ever, now would probably be the best time to send in a detailed plan on how to utilize the station as a massive intermodal hub for the Midwest, Region and City. Then we might see some $$$.

**jtf1972** · April-12-09, 06:14 PM

How can we get it through that destruction of cities such as Detroit accomplishes nothing? Suburbs are fine, but are much more attractive when the core city is functional and attractive as well. Is it not possible that both can coexist and thrive together?

I find it very obvious that the Detroit area is an ideal case study of what happens when you keep shining the skin of an apple, but allow the core to rot. As an apple with a rotten core is unattractive to a prospective buyer, so is an urban/suburban area unattractive to prospective business. What makes it worse is that much of the destruction and neglect in Detroit has been intentional.

**Rocko** · April-12-09, 07:24 PM

I think the office tower on the Station may now be the saving grace for the station... rent from occupants in the tower could provide funds for restoring the public parts of the station below, much moreso than a big empty station that has no way to generate income to repair itself.

But, to throw it out, if we can't use the office tower, and we want to preserve the facade, we could remove all the floors in the office tower and put skylights on the roof of the tower so light floods the arcade and ticket windows below.

**wolverine** · April-12-09, 07:51 PM

To achieve the type of appearance you are imagining, they would have to literally reconstruct the tower from scratch and then reapply the facade. There are actually tons of columns and beams spaced closely together that would make such an architectural transformation ridiculous and impractical...that's after all the expensive work to remove floors and walls without damaging the structure. The frame is built of reinforced concrete. The facade is actually "tied" to masonry infill, which rests on the reinforced concrete skeleton. There is really not a practical way to carve away the interior to achieve what you are imagining. To make matters worse, you now have more volume to heat and cool.....none that can be leased.....which has made the problem we were discussing in the first place worse.

**Rocko** · April-12-09, 08:09 PM

I meant to post that on the "ideas" thread, oh well. I'm of the opinion that the office tower should be saved and it would be rather difficult to demolish the tower without having an adverse affect on the rest of the structure they are trying to save.

Basically, I'm just trying to say that the office tower is just as valuable to the depot's possible revitalization and return to viability as the public parts of the station below. Just as the middle of the upper floors of the office tower are tied directly into the stability of the whole tower, the supporting members for the whole tower itself are integrated and a part of those which support the station below.

**wolverine** · April-12-09, 08:22 PM

You don't have to worry about convincing me. I support keeping the tower purely based on a value standpoint rather than an economical one. What would become of the station at least at the moment, I'm not sure. I'm skeptical that a mothballed MCS would remain vacant forever since we can't predict the future. If there's a way to protect this building for something better, I think it should be done.

**Khartoum** · April-12-09, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by dexterferry

Omaha saved their art deco train station as well. Is Detroit a lesser city than Omaha?

Monica Conyers is sure making a case for Omaha.

**Russix** · April-12-09, 10:53 PM

An apartment building, with all the income after maintenance and security costs going to fund the on-going restoration work.

**exmotowner** · April-14-09, 10:10 AM

Can someone explain to me why this guy has not been sued by the city in the past 20 some years??? Was he "in bed" with all the past mayors and council members? I really dont understand how the people of detroit put up with this.

**artds** · April-14-09, 01:54 PM

Lawsuit filed to stop MCS demo

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/1.../detail.html#-

**d.mcc** · April-14-09, 02:49 PM

Again...Detroit is the only city in the world that believes destruction is the best path to renewal...

And its NUTS, because I am so fucking sick of reading comments on all these sites..."If Detroit doesn't want that beautiful building, send it here"

Unbelievable that we have to put up with this shit here by a self-serving council. We have to have the most retarded elected officials in the country...

**d.mcc** · April-14-09, 03:07 PM

Who am I kidding...we can never renovate or update this hideous monstrosity...

woops!

http://www.unionstationdc.com/history.aspx

**exmotowner** · April-15-09, 05:43 AM

Nashville also had a train station that was in decline and a "haven for pigeons". It was in terrible shape and was headed for the wrecking ball. The preservationists help save this gem for Nashville [[a city that didnt save much in the way of its old architecture). Take a look at it now. MCS COULD BE RESTORED>

http://www.unionstationhotelnashville.com/

**jtf1972** · April-15-09, 10:27 AM

I wasn't aware of the structure of the office tower, but it sounds to be built to the 10x needed standard previously noted. I wonder what it could stand in the way of reengineering...

**jtf1972** · April-15-09, 10:28 AM

This seemed to fit in pretty well with the way things are done in Detroit!

**Flanders** · April-15-09, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by DetroitScooter

I love this place! Great comments and plans everybody, thanks for that.

Let's be realistic and say goodbye to the office building structure, as it never was fully successful [[top floors never occupied) and right now there isn't a credible need for the thousands of square feet of office/loft space anywhere in Detroit, never mind on the Corktown fringe. It's sad, but in order for the plan to go forward, we've got to be realistic. Amputate an arm to save the life, anyone?

Being someone who worked on the 9th, 10th and 11th floors of the MCS in the mid-late 70s, I have to say that although the 10th-13th floors were not finished, with the exception of the top floor [[13th) which was used to store old paper records in hundreds of file cabinets, there definitely were dozens of railroad employees working on those floors, with the exception of the 12th having perhaps only a few, too long ago for my hazy memory to recall the 12th floor offices.

**DetroitScooter** · April-15-09, 04:59 PM

Thanks Flanders, I appreciate the first-hand knowledge of that grand old building. I wonder where I picked up that factlet? Perhaps Wikipedia? I'll look again.

gravitymachine · April-16-09, 02:52 PM

charlie leduff has some interesting new info on the MCS debable, and dan stamper isn't wasting any time shifting the blame [[either for PR's sake or in collusion with the city to have them tear it down)

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...=2009904160408

someone should research the coordinates from the deed linked to in the story to determine exactly what property the city owns

Blarf · April-16-09, 05:25 PM

"an open area by which vandals, graffiti artists and treasure hunters access the depot."

Charlie Le[[[[[[ tries too hard. How does this hack still have a job?

Watch out for those treasure hunters yo.

dexterferry · April-16-09, 06:29 PM

LeDuff's latest masterpiece is so cryptic it might have well have been written in Sanskrit. The city is selling its parcels to the Mercury Bar? wtf? Did LeDuff get high and confuse Dan Stamper for Billy Bones and Cockrel for Old Pew?

**Rocko** · April-16-09, 07:58 PM

So wait, I can access the basement of the Mercury Bar through a city of Detroit Tunnel that goes under the Dan Stamper World "it can't be our fault" MCS but is poorly maintained by the city and only accessible from a city owned train bridge? Thanks for clearly stating this!

Regardless of what Sir Stamper says, the fault for the demolition by vandals, time and more is more or less solely CenTra's. The depot was in fairly good shape until Moroaun and Company acquired the property in the 1990s, and the city already owned the property behind sold by Conrail in 1989. So quick to point the finger....