Bye Bye Michigan Central Depot!!

[gravitymachine]

once again, make him HONESTLY seal that place up, with bricks and mortar, not that plywood dog and pony show they just did on the roosevelt school warehouse, and leave it at that.

as of this weekend, the back side of the station along newark street has about 3 openings in it, one the size of a garage door, which goes to show no effort is being made where the bad PR does not shine.

[mallory]

I hpoe they implode it but have a Hollywood movie company pay for part of the implosion and sell the rights to blow the building to them. It's coming down anyway, why not immortalize it in a movie? OK, a little far-fetched, but we might as well get something out of it besides another vacant lot.

[ghettopalmetto]

I'm extremely happy over this news. Argue the building's history and architectural greatness all you want, its still a empty dead building sitting on a ton of empty dead land, and Moroun had no plans to renovate or rehabilitate this building. He's just another landowner looking to hold onto parcels until he can sell it for a profit to somebody who wants to actually do something for the city. I don't care if nothing ever gets built there in 50 years, just as long as we don't have that enormous structure as a defining model of our strife.

Good job to the mayor and city council [[wow, how many times will I say that?!). Now I just hoe they can go through with it.

Yup. As soon as a building goes empty, it should be demolished. We don't need to learn from failure. Detroit is wealthy enough that it can afford to demolish old buildings and rebuild brand-new every time it wants to reinvent itself. Don't let massive budget deficits get in the way of the promise of attractive empty lots!

[DetroitScooter]

I love this place! Great comments and plans everybody, thanks for that.

I just had an idea of how we could accelerate these plans and comments into action. What this project needs is a face, and a famous one at that. I think that someone like Roger Penske would be able to present a cogent, reasonable plan for the active use of the MCS that integrates some of the ideas presented here. He is one of the few people who can call Matty and credibly present some action plans, and he can do the same with the city council... and they will listen.

Roger could present a reasonable action plan that increases green space in the area, turns an eyesore into an asset [[restore part of the MCS - either the facade idea or restore the station as part of the SE Michigan transportation initiative - light rail spur or the 'real deal' mentioned above), continues the renaissance of the Detroit/Corktown border area with a combination of a weekly farmer's market and a couple of area festivals [[St. Pats, naturally and what, MCS day?) to be hosted in the restored waiting hall and surrounding green space. Put transportation from the 'burbs in place and watch that intersection explode.

I was feeling very optimistic about the MCS the other day in my blog, [[http://www.examiner.com/x-3223-Detroit-Scooter-Examiner) and I believe that we can save the MCS, or at least part of it. The key is to have the plans taken seriously, and to present a credible, self-funded or minimal financial/maximum re-use and revitalization impact.

Let's be realistic and say goodbye to the office building structure, as it never was fully successful [[top floors never occupied) and right now there isn't a credible need for the thousands of square feet of office/loft space anywhere in Detroit, never mind on the Corktown fringe. It's sad, but in order for the plan to go forward, we've got to be realistic. Amputate an arm to save the life, anyone?

We should pick our battles carefully, and have someone with some clout and respect shake up the players before it's too late. If not Roger, then who? Dave Bing? Anyone have a contact with either of them?

[Novine]

"I don't care if nothing ever gets built there in 50 years, just as long as we don't have that enormous structure as a defining model of our strife."

Maybe you've missed the news but the national news articles that talk about Detroit these days don't focus on MCS or other abandoned buildings, they talk about the massive wasteland of vacant land turning into urban prairies. That's Detroit's national image these days, a place so destitute and abandoned that nature is taking over from what man built. The only thing that demolishing MCS will accomplish is millions of taxpayer dollars diverted away from doing something that will actually benefit Detroit to line the pockets of demolition contractors and private property owners.

[E hemingway]

Novine hits the nail on the head. Well written.

[iheartthed]

Back when Kilpatrick wanted to use MCS as the police HQ, didn't he say that it would cost more to demolish the building than it would to renovate it? In that light, I don't even see why demolition is an option. It just sounds like a political ploy. Why aren't they as concerned about the Packard Plant? Don't they own the Packard Plant?!

[cman710]

While I am not certain, I believe that Cockrel has request $13 million to demolish the Packard plant. It's hard to see how that would be enough money, but I agree that the Packard plant should be a higher priority. Knocking even that down, however, will not be valuable at all so long as the environmental contamination is not cleaned up.

[rjlj]

Why would you actually believe what Kilpatrick said about the depot? Was his comment based on actual quotes for demo vs. re-development? The only reason why this scenario was brought up in the first place was because Matty was in Kilpatrick's back pocket. I bet the cost of renovation that it would be less expensive to demo the site than re-develope it.

[Lorax]

Unfortunately Detroit never learns from it's mistakes. The two most people oriented buildings in Detroit- Hudson's and the MCD find themselves demolished due to a lack of vision.

When the core of your built environment is decimated, the rest can't survive for very long.

People argue that replacing beautiful, well built buildings with strip malls, or worse yet, vacant land is somehow progress. It's not.

I'm sorry, but isn't it all too obvious that the only jobs and wealth created by constant demolition of our built environment are those of the demolition contractors and the politicians who line their pockets with kickbacks?

The solutions to saving and restoring the built environment are not easy, but doing easy is for sell-outs and people without vision and resources. We should be attacking this situation because it's difficult.

Just look at the Frankenstein financing that had to be stitched together to get the Book Cadillac reopened. Does anyone think it was easy? Does anyone seeing the result think it now shouldn't have been done? I think not.

Like it or not, the citizens have to hold their politicians accountable- shout loudly, stamp your feet, threaten them with expulsion, whatever it takes to get the message across. Remember, elected officials are by nature self-centered and only think of their own political future- they will listen if they think there's a chance of being exposed for corruption, or worse- not elected again.

The MCD is a victim. It still stands today eventhough an entire society has tried to destroy it. Everyone is guilty here. People like Mr. Moron need to be hauled into court and ordered to mothball such structures, and if they refuse, need to have a warrant issued for their arrest for endangering the public. Then their property should be taken away through eminent domain.

The city of Detroit has the perfect leverage in Moron's desire to finish his folly bridge- he needs Riverside Park- trade it for MCD and a capital fund to stabilize and market it for resale to a responsible citizen who intends to restore it. But then again we're dealing with a stupid city council.

As Ron White said, you can't fix stupid.

[Rocko]

Interesting how this article from the Chicago Tribune today highlights more of Dan Stamper's and DIBC's comments about the building. I've tried to put them in bold here:

Detroit wants blighted old train depot demolished

By COREY WILLIAMS |Associated Press Writer6:10 PM CDT, April 7, 2009 DETROIT - The Michigan Central Depot -- a 17-story hulking reminder of Detroit's past grandeur and present failures -- could be approaching its end.

The city council has passed a resolution seeking emergency demolition of the mostly hollowed-out building just outside the shadow of downtown, while Mayor Ken Cockrel Jr. has made it clear that he wants federal stimulus money to bring it to rubble.

Both want to force the long-closed train station's owner, Manuel [[Matty) Moroun, to pay the city back. Moroun also owns the Ambassador Bridge, which is operated by his Detroit International Bridge Co.

Dan Stamper, company president, told The Associated Press Tuesday afternoon the council's demolition plans are not that simple.

"The building is on the historical list," Stamper said. "But for that, we would have torn it down some time ago.

"I agree, the depot is a visual icon to the decay of Detroit and we feel really bad about that, and agree with everybody who says something needs to be done. Renovate it or get rid of it."

The nearly 100-year-old building dominates Detroit's southwest skyline and in its heyday had been considered one of the city's most stately structures.

Built in 1913, the station was designed by the same architects responsible for New York's Grand Central Terminal. It served thousands of travelers each year, but its demise was set as rail service in Detroit began to fall off.

The building was sold in 1985, with passenger carrier Amtrak pulling out three years later.

Hundreds of pane-less windows have left the depot open to the elements, birds and four-legged varmints. Fencing, barbed wire and warning signs remind urban adventurers and other upright walking trespassers to keep out.

Moroun bought the building in the mid- to late-1990s after one of the owners defaulted on a loan to the Detroit area businessman, Stamper said.

Moroun also has interests in rail and trucking transport which led to him buying the depot, Stamper said.

Depot "ownership really was by accident, and probably the most criticized thing we could have done," he said. "We got into it because of the railroad implications, and all the railroads converged there. It had been closed and stripped long before we got involved."

Stamper said they are looking at opportunities to renovate the depot or start the demolition process. Past bids have estimated demolition at a "couple of million" dollars, Stamper said.

"We would like to see the building saved," he said. "We think the process [[the council) has gone through is not the right way.

"The real issue is there are about 600,000 square feet in the building. Is there a market for all of that, or is there a market for part of it?"

Stamper did not directly address the possibility of Moroun being billed for demolition.

A report on how to enforce demolition of the building is expected to be presented to the council later this month. But similar plans and cries to rehab or tear down the depot have been heard in prior years throughout City Hall.

Ex-Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick even pushed a short-lived $100 million to $130 million plan to buy, renovate and convert the depot into a new police headquarters.

"We did a lot of work, spent a lot of money on engineering," Stamper said. "The city couldn't complete the deal."

Meanwhile, Cockrel is seeking $3.64 million in federal stimulus funds to tear the dilapidated station down. Like the council, Cockrel wants Moroun to reimburse the city, mayoral spokesman Daniel Cherrin said.

"We're waiting to hear from Washington" on whether the funding will be approved, Cherrin said Tuesday. "It's an eyesore. What once stood as the city's architectural treasure, now sits as a symbol of blight in the city."

But not all want to see it torn down.

Timothy McKay, executive director of the Greater Corktown Development Corp., envisions the old station as a "fabulous ruin."

"Why couldn't we have a ruin to celebrate like the Coliseum in Rome?" McKay said. "It's an iconic piece of architecture that needs to be regarded in a very good way. What is going to replace it is our big question."

McKay's organization is a nonprofit housing and economic development corporation that works in the area surrounding the depot.

[Detroitnerd]

What does demolition stimulate?

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_fsnchf

[gravitymachine]

Interesting how this article from the Chicago Tribune today highlights more of Dan Stamper's and DIBC's comments about the building. I've tried to put them in bold here:

reading that article i have more questions about the shitty journalism in detroit than i do anything about the MCD. they had the presence of mind to talk to tim mckay, the head of the corktown develpoment corp and defacto representative of the neighborhood that is most directly affected by this issue, not to mention the extended quotes from stamper. where the hell is that in the freep, the snews, or even crain's?

crap journalism for sure

[iheartthed]

Why would you actually believe what Kilpatrick said about the depot? Was his comment based on actual quotes for demo vs. re-development? The only reason why this scenario was brought up in the first place was because Matty was in Kilpatrick's back pocket. I bet the cost of renovation that it would be less expensive to demo the site than re-develope it.

Because he was the mayor? MCS was brought up as an alternative for the police HQ because Greektown casino wanted to demolish the current HQ and use that site for their expansion.

[Russix]

I posted this in the other thread, but its not getting very much love.

“Governor, regional leaders and citizens celebrate grand reopening of Michigan Central Station on 100th anniversity” – Detroit Times April 8, 2013

After surviving a close swing of the wrecking ball, MCS lives to celebrates its 100th birthday with new life. “It’s was like Penn Station all over again”, one attendee claimed.
4 years ago the only future for the station was a political demolition to grab votes during an election year. Luckily, an internet discussion group formed a viable plan to reuse the station and marketed it successfully to the public. The task wasn’t easy, but the potential rewards were limitless. The main feature of the newly reopened station is its placement as the city’s stop on the Chicago-Toronto high-speed rail network. Formally the Detroit-Chicago line use to move an average of 450,000 riders per year. With investments resulting in increased speed, greater city interconnectivity through MCS and expanding destination options, MCS alone is predicted to handle 3 million riders this year. MCS is not just train station anymore, Greyhound and Indian Trails are scheduled to move their passenger terminal to operate in MCS also. “We use to have a lot more trains back in the day”, a local Professor explains, “but there’s nothing in the rule book that say you can’t convert an empty rail platform to a bus terminal”. Along with the international rail link, intercity bus services, local transit agencies are ramping up as well. DDOT/SMART will slightly alter routing to restart service at the old streetcar station at MCS. Engineers from M12-RAIL and the architects from the Roosevelt Park Underground Garage are working together to figure out the best possible way to provide M12-RAIL with a station close to MCS using part of the garage like a subway station. The Ann-Arbor-Detroit commuter line also stops here before heading up to New Center. In the works too, an historic trolley line running right out of MCS along the riverfront, making a complete circle around Belle Isle before returning to MCS. “I can’t believe we almost knocked it down”, says a local resident, “my property values are skyrocketing, everyone wants to be close to MCS because it connects to everything!” Remarkably, some the biggest increases in property values are located in the station itself. The station’s office tower is a great fit for out-of-town firms to set up satellite offices and the residential spaces were quickly rented to frequent travelers. MCS has some floors setup as a hotel for short-term visitors who wish to stay in the station. Local businesses are seeing positive results too, unlike a special event which would provide only a short influx of visitors; MCS provides a steady stream of visitors. “We’re Rich!”, says the mayor, “There is no other single improvement to this city that could have reaped such a huge return while vastly improving the quality of life for its residents.”

[exmotowner]

Will someone please explain to me why Matty has never been taken to court to MAKE him do something with this? Why cant the city take him to court? WHY?? Please explain why this guy is excempt from procecution? Sorry, I just dont get it.

[Rocko]

At 1:25PM today, Ken Cockrel Jr. will be on NPR WDET 101.9FM explaining his position on MCS

[Russix]

Atleast Ken would like to save it.

[artds]

Will someone please explain to me why Matty has never been taken to court to MAKE him do something with this? Why cant the city take him to court? WHY?? Please explain why this guy is excempt from procecution? Sorry, I just dont get it.

That's kinda what they're doing now.

[Brian No. 5.2]

Thank you, Rocko, I might try to catch that at work.

Yes, can someone explain why it is okay for people to let properties crumble? Why isn't it illegal to let this happen? I suspect part of the problem is that no one would want to buy something like MCD if they knew it would immediately cost them many millions to fix it up. The result would likely be more property in the hands of the government, but at least that would end the impediment of dealing with private owners. No one would be sitting on property waiting to cash in. They would either fix it up, "mothball" it, sell it, pay thousands and thousands in fines and increased taxes, sell it, or let someone take it from them. Set time limits. If the city got a property for "free," they could afford to sell it to someone at a greatly reduced price, making it more feasible to rehab. Contracts could require action and require the return of the property to the city, state, etc., if action is not taken. ... I don't know. Maybe I'm smoking the pot again.

What is destroying this building going to accomplish?

[cman710]

I just missed the show. What did the mayor say?

[Rocko]

Basically, he said if we had the best of both worlds, and his ultimate hope, is that the depot could be restored and viable again, and not subject to demolition. He said, however, that this must be something undertaken by Matty.

Otherwise, it is still his plan to pursue federal stimulus money for "large buildings which cannot be saved....to demolish them." [[Kind of contradictory how one second he says Matty COULD save the building if he wanted to, but then says that the building which CANNOT be saved, but whatever.) He said the city council's plan can't really work, because Detroit does not have the money to do the up front demolition. It would essentially wipe out the whole demolition budget for the city for 1 fiscal year.

Anyone else have anything to offer? I'm intrigued by the Mayor's mention that his ultimate preference would be to see the building fixed up. No mention of a swap for Riverside Park or anything of that sort.

[DocTerry]

buildingsofdetroit, you are not alone. I, too will miss seeing it every day from my front porch. I do not consider it an "eyesore", nor have I heard anyone in my neighborhood refer to it as such. But I've known all along that this day would come. I would prefer, by far, to see it thoroughly sealed until such time as it can be re-habbed and re-used. But something *has* to be done - there are far too many youngsters in there on a daily basis, along with those who live there and those engaging in the "activities" that others here have referred to. Sooner or later, we will be faced with a tragedy unless it gets sealed up.

[exmotowner]

Can someone please tell me why this guy has NEVER been taken to court and why dont the city try that first? I just cant fathom him not being MADE to do something [[even if its wrong/demo). Seems to me tearing it down would be doing him a huge favor.

[exmotowner]

Can someone please tell me why this guy hasnt been in court over this building thus far? Why didnt/dont the city council take him to court? ?????? Demo'ing this building would be doing this bum a huge favor. And you guys are probably correct, he will never pay for it.