Bye Bye Michigan Central Depot!!

[Dan]

A few steps forward, one step back.

Demolition is not stimulus.
Demolition of a gem is not progress.

This sucked all the energy out of me.

[cman710]

I agree, Dan. I am pretty depressed by this turn of events. All the preservation committee can do is try to raise noise with the Mayor, City Council, and Maroun. Unless someone steps up, the building will not be saved.

[Gistok]

Hmmmm.... the National Trusts List of 11 Most Endangered Historic Places 2009-2010 list is due out in about another month or two.... it would be nice to nominate the MCS onto the list.

Now granted being nominated onto the list doesn't guarantee safety of a building [[the Madison-Lenox was proof of that).... but the National Trust got back at the Ilitch's/City Gov't by putting the United Artists Building [[with all the painted windows) on the cover of the next quarterly National Trust Magazine [[circulation 700,000, but read by about 2 million people) thus putting the "preservationist" spotlight onto the situation in Detroit for the whole country to see.

[professorscott]

Essentially, the building won't be saved because there is nobody who both [[1) can save it, and [[2) wants to.

The neighborhood [[if you can even call it that) around MCS is about as dead as a neighborhood can get. It's tantalizingly close to east Mexicantown, but the trackwork provides too much of a separation. The freeways close off access to everything to the north. It's too far from downtown to serve any downtown sort of purpose. It's just in a really unfortunate location.

I can't imagine anything whatever that would work in that spot. I like historic preservation but there has to be a reason to save a building; in other words, nobody can afford to save it just because it ought to be save, there has to be a value to saving it. Nobody with money sees any value in saving it, so it goes.

I've wondered why Mr. Maroun ever wanted to own it in the first place, but then I wonder a good many things about that particular gentleman.

[jjw]

Something uniquely Detroit coming down. Typical.

[Russix]

Mr. Maroun wants Riverside Park, the city should negotiate a trade with him for MCS. The trade should include compensation[[$50-$70 million) for costs associated with restoring the building. Once the building is restored the station part should be handed off to MDOT to operate a Amtrak/VIA Rail[[$30 Million available for planned Intermodal project) station while the rest of the building is leased out to a developer to manage.

[Gsgeorge]

The neighborhood [[if you can even call it that) around MCS is about as dead as a neighborhood can get.

What? Corktown is dead? Last time I checked it was one of the most vibrant, lived-in neighborhoods in the city. It is true that the blocks immediately surrounding the station are sparsely populated, but the station is decidedly in Corktown and Corktown is a vibrant hood. So what's up with that?

[Gsgeorge]

Mr. Maroun wants Riverside Park, the city should negotiate a trade with him for MCS. The trade should include compensation[[$50-$70 million) for costs associated with restoring the building. Once the building is restored the station part should be handed off to MDOT to operate a Amtrak/VIA Rail[[$30 Million available for planned Intermodal project) station while the rest of the building is leased out to a developer to manage.

Great idea, Russix. I have been saying this same thing for years. Riverside park is a great trade for a restored station. But the city is in a position to use it as leverage to get him to restore the station. Perhaps no other situation would offer this type of solution, so the city should take advantage of it. If Maroun puts up the money himself to restore the station [[yes, he can afford it) then redevelopment would be a viable solution.

[Detroitnerd]

My 2 cents: All Moroun wanted to do was to deny the "Jobs Tunnel" people a staging area for their plan to convert the train tubes into truck tunnels. They scrapped their plans last week. Now, of course, that Moroun has no more use for the building, they want to threaten him by tearing it down and making him pay for it? Good luck getting past the lawyers. Hate to break it to the city, but Moroun never wanted the building. He just wanted to balk a competing crossing plan. Now that it's effectively happened, he doesn't care. Knock it down and try to get the money. Good freakin' luck.

[E hemingway]

Good point, DetroitNerd. I hadn't connected those dots.

[DetroitHabitater]

What? Corktown is dead? Last time I checked it was one of the most vibrant, lived-in neighborhoods in the city. It is true that the blocks immediately surrounding the station are sparsely populated, but the station is decidedly in Corktown and Corktown is a vibrant hood. So what's up with that?

Amen! Doesn't sound like professorscott has been to Corktown ever

[Joseph C. Krause]

Gsgeorge,

I would like to see MCS remain, but if it must come down I would lobby for a plan such as yours. The park will need a focal point even without MCS and your idea is an excellent, realistic proposal. Let's keep this idea alive as a potential compromise, even though I will also lobby for true preservation/renovation.

[professorscott]

I've spent a good deal of time in Corktown. The station is not within any vibrant part of Corktown, but rather is in a dead, isolated area. That area might be surrounded by Corktown, and technically might be part of it, but really isn't part of it. Draw a quarter-mile-wide circle with MCS in the center of it, and your circle will contain almost nothing but MCS, railroad tracks [[mostly abandoned) and vacant land. The real parts of Corktown are nothing like that.

[Brian No. 5.2]

Some good ideas. If the idea to trade the station for the park falls through, I love the idea Gsgeorge shared for preserving the facade! If the rest has to go--and, given the present economy, Maroun, Detroit City Council, and neighborhood opinion, it seems like it might end up going whether it has to or not--at least save some sign of the magnificence. Leave relics to show future generations what they are missing.

I agree that the area immediately around the station is somewhat isolated by the tracks and urban prairie, but I think its proximity to two vibrant neighborhoods bodes well for the eventual revitalization.

Why is the city council so concerned with tearing down buildings when there are no plans to redevelop the space? Don’t they have anything better to do? I’m sure this is not the first time or even the five hundredth time someone has asked this question on DetroitYES. How does this score them points? There is always this pro-destruction belief that tearing down buildings creates opportunities, but why is it that it seems like Detroit disproves that idea? Why is it that for every ten buildings torn down, we’re lucky to see one piece of property developed with anything valuable?

[[There’s some first post naivety for you!)

[gravitymachine]

i'd love to see this building saved.

but no one has the money, the will, or a solid plan [[not some pie in the sky dyes groupthink bullshit a la the lafayette) to save it. matty's demolition by neglect has taken a huge toll on the structure, and even if the city took him to blight court retroactively for every year that he owned it, it won't change its present state. as far as i'm concerned, unless it can be sealed up, and i'm talking bricks, mortar and steel plate sealed up, not the half assed plywood method, its time to move on and take it down, on matty's dime.

[Retroit]

So, is this the "stimulus" that Obama and the Democrats had in mind?

If the city is so upset about Marion's failure to upkeep his property, is tearing it down the only solution? How about fining him for violating the city's blight ordinances?

[wolverine]

It's a really complicated issue Brian. First off, the train station is owned privately, so it's difficult for the city to propose any uses without Moroun being the key investor.....and would he if it's the type of project he wants? He's looking at it purely from an economic approach, not a value based approach. I don't think he actually cares about the station. If he did, it would have been sealed many years ago.

It's really sad. MCS is an icon. The more history we lose, the less I think of Detroit [[physically) as a real city. It's getting more difficult to look back when all you got is empty lots where once proud businesses and factories once stood.

I don't have much of a defense as far as saving the station. Into what, and with what money, I have no idea.

[buildingsofdetroit]

I look out at it from my bedroom window every morning. I personally think it's like our Coliseum and enjoy looking at it. That said, I know I'm likely in the majority and won't stop demo on it SO LONG AS NO PUBLIC MONEY IS USED. Moron [[sic) is, literally, a billionaire. With a B. Fine his wealthy ass to kingdom come till he does something with it, but this city has no money to give billionaires to take care of their messes.
I'd also like to see the depot itself, not the office tower, saved as a sort of clubhouse for Roosevelt Park. If not, so be it, but it's absolutely gorgeous.
Again, this is all assuming the City Council can actually do something about this.

[Joseph C. Krause]

Trade Riverside for MCS. Once the city has it [[and the DEGC gets jurisdiction), sentimental preservationists like me will still not get their way, but Mr. Jackson I suspect would be more open to Gsgeorge's good idea of facade preservation than Maroun. The park could be an asset and retain its focal point.

[3WC]

The MCS will never be demolished unless Maroun wants it to be demolished. And, If he doesn't want to pay for demolishion to which he agrees, the City will pay for it.

Possibly a deal has been made for the City to pay for the demolishion, and end up with the property as suggested above. Considering the disparity in intellegence and common sense between Maroun, and the City Council in the aggregate, that's probably what's going to happen.

Any time Maroun wants out, all he has to do is "sell" the place to a straw company for $100,000 and walk away. The place isn't worth that under any scenario, it would be an arm's length transaction price-wise, and the City would have to chase the new owner for whatever compensation to which it thinks it may arguably be entitled. Lots of luck.

[BShea]

From my quick digging on the National Register of Historic Places stuff:

The Michigan Central Depot was placed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1975. The registry, maintained by the National Park Service, provides economic incentive assistance for the sites, but not necessarily direct legal protection from demolition.

Sites on the list are considered worthy of preservation by the federal government, and if any federal money is involved with the site then the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation must be involved with significant changes to the registered site.

It's unclear if federal stimulus money would trigger the advisory council's involvement.

I'm also unsure if the registry means past federal money, current federal money, stimulus money ... i.e. ANY federal money involved in the site at any time in its history.

If stimulus money triggers the advisory council's involvement, everyone involved will have to have post-destruction plans before they'll OK the wrecking ball, I believe.

[buildingsofdetroit]

From my quick digging on the National Register of Historic Places stuff:

The Michigan Central Depot was placed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1975. The registry, maintained by the National Park Service, provides economic incentive assistance for the sites, but not necessarily direct legal protection from demolition.

Sites on the list are considered worthy of preservation by the federal government, and if any federal money is involved with the site then the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation must be involved with significant changes to the registered site.

It's unclear if federal stimulus money would trigger the advisory council's involvement.

I'm also unsure if the registry means past federal money, current federal money, stimulus money ... i.e. ANY federal money involved in the site at any time in its history.

If stimulus money triggers the advisory council's involvement, everyone involved will have to have post-destruction plans before they'll OK the wrecking ball, I believe.

Federal money cannot be used to demolish a building on the National Register. I don't know if stimulus money is a separate deal or not, but I don't see how demolition is stimulating.

[LodgeDodger]

"Conyers, who also opposes using federal stimulus money to tear it down, also said she would be willing to consider other options if Moroun “came up with some type of plan to make it viable,� like a shopping outlet."

My God, that woman oozes stupidity from every pore.

[d.mcc]

Federal money cannot be used to demolish a building on the National Register. I don't know if stimulus money is a separate deal or not, but I don't see how demolition is stimulating.

Stimulates Detroiters to come out and take pictures and say things like, "That was sad, someone should have done something to save that grand old building" then they get in their cars and go home...

[bragaboutme]

It will be a good thing for this building to come down. I don't think Detroit is lossing history, I think it's moving on from its past. Looking towards a brighter future. These structures have to go and I'm glad their making the right decisions for a change.