GM to plan move from RenCen to Dan Gilbert’s Hudson’s tower

[401don]

What GM should had done was to put classic cars throughout the first and lower levels of the RenCen as well as new cars. GM had done similar when their headquarters were on Grand Blvd. That would had drawn more visitors and tourists especially on weekends when people are on the Riverwalk on warmer days. Former CEO Wagoner probably would had considered it but Mary Bara just wanted an office complex which closed after 6pm and on weekends. Thank God that GM will only leade out two floors and not control the whole Hudson's Detroit building. I would be good to put a classic Chrvy, Pontiac, or Cadillac in the atrium of the Block for show to visitors

Tourists on the riverfront would wander in to see the Ren Cen and new car displays anyway. It's not like classics would draw thousands more, plus those cars are very valuable, require constant rotation do to ventilation requirements and there are security issues which would require a guard at all times. Besides I think a display with videos on future technology would be of more interest. There was never any audio or music to liven up the area. Either way, it's was never going to have any impact on the overall viability of the place.

[David L]

Does anyone have an idea of the occupancy rate of Ren-cen today?
What other companies are located in the four main towers?

[stasu1213]

Tourists on the riverfront would wander in to see the Ren Cen and new car displays anyway. It's not like classics would draw thousands more, plus those cars are very valuable, require constant rotation do to ventilation requirements and there are security issues which would require a guard at all times. Besides I think a display with videos on future technology would be of more interest. There was never any audio or music to liven up the area. Either way, it's was never going to have any impact on the overall viability of the place.

GM had a few classic cars displayed in the lower level new the food court. Tourists don't want to see current modeled cars. They could visit any dealership showroom to see those. The RenCen management failed at many things including accommodations such as shopping, some type of attraction such as classic GM cars, restaurants, etc. The RenCen had more visitors and tourists on weekends in the 70s, 80, and 90s, when there weren't even a Riverwalk. Ford had "The World of Ford" area or room where classic, new, and concept cars were displayed visited by local visitors and tourists. What also hurt the RenCen was the change in building management which were clueless in managing the complex and the change in CEO for GM

[bailey]

Bedrock has done this before. With much fanfare, they got Sergio Marchione to move a handful of people downtown into a couple of floors of Bedrock's Dime Building. They even rebranded the entire building as "Chrysler House".


The offices were rarely used when Marchionne was running things and were effectively abandoned before Covid. But the name remains on the building and the floors remain unoccupied and unchanged since. Warren is GM's HQ. let's not kid ourselves that one or two floors of the Block building is going to be anything more than a C suite pied a terre. It'll be used as much as the Chrysler offices were because it makes little sense to be Downtown when the entire org is in Warren [[or in Chrysler's case Auburn Hills and Italy).


This move is clearly not a net positive for Detroit. But it is for GM and that shouldn't be minimized as they are an important economic driver for SE Michigan and the state. Barely maintaining that white elephant does nothing to sell more cars. Unloading the operations and redevelopment costs and likely the ownership, to Bedrock is a long overdue cost cutting move and a late but welcome admission that the whole fucking move from the GM building in New Center was a gigantic waste.


It's sad that Detroit just got one blighted, ruin porn landmark off the books with Ford's incredible reno of the train station and surrounding area, only to have a much larger, and more prominent derelict building to contend with in the near future.

[401don]

GM had a few classic cars displayed in the lower level new the food court. Tourists don't want to see current modeled cars. They could visit any dealership showroom to see those. The RenCen management failed at many things including accommodations such as shopping, some type of attraction such as classic GM cars, restaurants, etc. The RenCen had more visitors and tourists on weekends in the 70s, 80, and 90s, when there weren't even a Riverwalk. Ford had "The World of Ford" area or room where classic, new, and concept cars were displayed visited by local visitors and tourists. What also hurt the RenCen was the change in building management which were clueless in managing the complex and the change in CEO for GM

I've been through the Ren Cen weekends since the '70's. It's basically always been a Ghost town. If you have a way to change that and profitably activate all that space better than Hines and all the other companies that have tried please tell us.

[bailey]

I've been through the Ren Cen weekends since the '70's. It's basically always been a Ghost town. If you have a way to change that and profitably activate all that space better than Hines and all the other companies that have tried please tell us.

The common areas would make a great Casino. Confusing layout to keep people playing. Isolated location to stop them from leaving. Restaurant and event space already there. Demo short towers, keep the middle one as the casino's hotel .

[stasu1213]

I've been through the Ren Cen weekends since the '70's. It's basically always been a Ghost town. If you have a way to change that and profitably activate all that space better than Hines and all the other companies that have tried please tell us.

Rencen was crowded on weekends during the late 70s throughout the 80s. The shops, the restaurants, and the movie theaters were always occupied or heavily attended. Had the RenCen wasn't built like a cement maze had the riverfront been developed then the complex would had attracted more people

[Gistok]

The common areas would make a great Casino. Confusing layout to keep people playing. Isolated location to stop them from leaving. Restaurant and event space already there. Demo short towers, keep the middle one as the casino's hotel .

Actually the 2 short [[22 story) towers are not owned by GM, and are leased up much better than the 39 story towers.

[mkd]

Tourists on the riverfront would wander in to see the Ren Cen and new car displays anyway. It's not like classics would draw thousands more, plus those cars are very valuable, require constant rotation do to ventilation requirements and there are security issues which would require a guard at all times. Besides I think a display with videos on future technology would be of more interest. There was never any audio or music to liven up the area. Either way, it's was never going to have any impact on the overall viability of the place.

Actually there was audio playing, at least when I was working there pre-Covid. This also reminded me that there used to be free tours of the Ren Cen, like three times a day or something. Took it maybe 15 years ago. But even working there, I saw random people taking pictures especially in the Wintergarden regularly. The complex has always been of some touristic interest.

[softailrider]

The common areas would make a great Casino. Confusing layout to keep people playing. Isolated location to stop them from leaving. Restaurant and event space already there. Demo short towers, keep the middle one as the casino's hotel .

Hmmmm......A casino, I think I like that a lot.

[stasu1213]

You could not be more wrong. Nobody wanted Hudson Site. Couldn't even attract a suburban company. There is a tiny amount of office space in Hudson's compared to Ren Cen. Gilbert won't touch Ren Cen, probably even for free.

Wrong. Gilbert and Bedrock could work wonders to the RenCen complex where G.M. couldn't. Bedrock could attract the right tenants to the complex. They could get new managers and planners with fresh ideas for thr complex. HM was just a car company focusing on selling cars. Sure the company did improve the complex since possessing it but that was under a different CEO and management company. Not putting all of the blame on Barra. She had inherited a company whose glory days were far behind it especially losing two brands, Pontiac and Oldsmobile.

[jcole]

Went down to the Riverfront with the grandkids in the 'teens and it was hot and we were hungry so we wandered in to cool off and get food and the only thing open was Penera and it was jammed and the line was ridiculous. Never again

[401don]

Wrong. Gilbert and Bedrock could work wonders to the RenCen complex where G.M. couldn't. Bedrock could attract the right tenants to the complex. They could get new managers and planners with fresh ideas for thr complex. HM was just a car company focusing on selling cars. Sure the company did improve the complex since possessing it but that was under a different CEO and management company. Not putting all of the blame on Barra. She had inherited a company whose glory days were far behind it especially losing two brands, Pontiac and Oldsmobile.

Gilbert has done wonders for downtown but even he knows supply requires demand. He'll be happy to take a fee or equity stake in exchange for management, why not, but he won't be dumb enough to put his own money in it. It's not anyone's fault that office demand has cratered since covid but that makes the Ren Cen less desirable than ever. Meanwhile Gilbert hasn't even announced plans for the fail jail site, Monroe Blocks is on hold and he has a lot of space to fill in his existing buildings and retail spaces.

[Noah V]

Gilbert has done wonders for downtown but even he knows supply requires demand. He'll be happy to take a fee or equity stake in exchange for management, why not, but he won't be dumb enough to put his own money in it. It's not anyone's fault that office demand has cratered since covid but that makes the Ren Cen less desirable than ever. Meanwhile Gilbert hasn't even announced plans for the fail jail site, Monroe Blocks is on hold and he has a lot of space to fill in his existing buildings and retail spaces.

Monroe Blocks is gonna start in September. It would have started already but they had to use that space for the NFL draft stage.

As for putting his own money into it, if there is anyone who would put their own money into a Detroit project it’s him. I mean he’s wanted the RenCen for years now, why would he want it if he didn’t have any plans for it?

[401don]

As for putting his own money into it, if there is anyone who would put their own money into a Detroit project it’s him. I mean he’s wanted the RenCen for years now, why would he want it if he didn’t have any plans for it?

So you're saying we should hear about the purchase any day because there's no way GM wouldn't unload it now in a heartbeat.

[stasu1213]

So you're saying we should hear about the purchase any day because there's no way GM wouldn't unload it now in a heartbeat.

The beauty about Gilbert owning the RenCen is that he could lease one or two of the towers to global or international companies instead of just local. GM probably had paid off the complex a few years back. Unloading the complex may save the company millions in the long term. It's a smart move by Mary Barra to downsize to a smaller footprint while having the rest of the workforce at the tech center where there's free parking.

[401don]

The beauty about Gilbert owning the RenCen is that he could lease one or two of the towers to global or international companies instead of just local. GM probably had paid off the complex a few years back. Unloading the complex may save the company millions in the long term. It's a smart move by Mary Barra to downsize to a smaller footprint while having the rest of the workforce at the tech center where there's free parking.

And unicorns could fly people over from Metro.

[Gistok]

It's a smart move by Mary Barra to downsize to a smaller footprint while having the rest of the workforce at the tech center where there's free parking.

Um.... am I missing something here? Or are those GM built parking structures also not free parking for the employees?

[Burnsie]

GM probably had paid off the complex a few years back

All indications point to GM having paid the $72 million sale price in cash in 1996; the company had 1995 profits of $6.88 billion.

[stasu1213]

All indications point to GM having paid the $72 million sale price in cash in 1996; the company had 1995 profits of $6.88 billion.

How much did G.M. sell it's Grand Blvd location to the State of Michigan for?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I read somewhere that it would be cheaper to tear down the RenCen that to re-purpose it.

[13606Cedargrove]

I read somewhere that it would be cheaper to tear down the RenCen that to re-purpose it.

I am not sure that is true, but having worked throughout the hotel for over 3 years, I came away from the experience concluding it is a fundamentally flawed design throughout. If emotions are not factored in, a tear down and rebuild is the solution. But that will not fly due to "optics" of tearing down an iconic symbol of the City. I don't have the answers, but I hope someone does. My concern is if the 5 towers are broken up into separate parcels, this could turn into the Downtown version of the Packard Plant.

[401don]

I am not sure that is true, but having worked throughout the hotel for over 3 years, I came away from the experience concluding it is a fundamentally flawed design throughout. If emotions are not factored in, a tear down and rebuild is the solution. But that will not fly due to "optics" of tearing down an iconic symbol of the City. I don't have the answers, but I hope someone does. My concern is if the 5 towers are broken up into separate parcels, this could turn into the Downtown version of the Packard Plant.

I was going to make a joke about world's tallest Amazon warehouse but who knows, with robotics these days maybe one tower, or a portion, could be utilized for warehousing, storage or parking. The Marriott is primarily a convention hotel. There's certainly enough space on the lower tower floors to have exhibit space for small conventions that might not compete with Huntington. It's going to take some out-of-the-box thinking that's for sure.

[Gistok]

Anyone who says that the RenCen should come down to make the land available to the riverfront needs a reality check. Between the RenCen and Hart Plaza is that thingy we call the Detroit/Windsor Tunnel... that in and of itself takes up quite a bit of riverfront land as well, thus making it impossible to connect the RenCen land to Hart Plaza in anyway except for the Riverwalk... which is already there.

Update: I forgot to add that Mariners Church [moved to this location in the 1950s during the building of the Civic Center] is also in the way... between the tunnel entrance plaza and the Jefferson Ave. sidewalk.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Friedman real estate owns the smaller towers I was told. They own quite a few properties in the metro area, mostly residential. I wonder what would be their involvement in all this? Do they sell?