Should a 'lid' be built over I-75 in Detroit? Grants will fund a study

[Airforceguy]

Should a 'lid' be built over I-75 in Detroit? Grants will fund a study of the feasibility.

"Nearly $4.3 million in federal grants and private money will fund a study of the feasibility of putting a lid, or cap, over a portion of Interstate 75 in downtown Detroit to connect and beautify the area — potentially with a park or other green space above the sunken trench of concrete."

One award, which was announced Wednesday by the U.S. Department of Transportation, is designated for the Downtown Detroit Partnership, whose application was backed by the state Department of Transportation. The I-75 "overbuild" planning project will conduct community engagement and analyze building a deck over the freeway to reconnect neighborhoods to the north, Midtown and Brush Park, with downtown.

The announcement is the latest boost for the concept, which comes amid a plan to raise nearby I-375 to street level and convert it to a six-lane boulevard. Detroit got a $1.9 million grant, backed by U.S. Sen. Gary Peters, to study the capping idea under a spending bill signed last week by President Joe Biden.

And the developers of The District Detroit, Olympia Development of Michigan and The Related Cos., agreed to contribute a $400,000 match to the Downtown Detroit Partnership as part of tax incentives and a community benefits agreement that were approved roughly a year ago.

"The interesting thing about the cap is not only does it really connect the two sections of our downtown, but it also provides for some great public space on top of the cap," Downtown Detroit Partnership CEO Eric Larson said. "Think about what could be, depending on the size of the cap, a very significant public space or park that becomes a community asset. We'll be doing a lot of studies around that. We don't have any predetermined conclusions. And that's why this grant is so important." t is unknown how much the I-75 lid would cost. Talk of the cap sprung from talks about overhauling I-375 and picked up steam during the District Detroit community benefits process, Larson said, when questions were posed on how to restitch downtown and make it more attractive.

"There was an opportunity to not only think about I-375 but also how the overall transportation network in the downtown was coming together. There is a significant amount of investment over the next 10 years that's going to be required by MDOT and the city. When we make those investments, what do we do to make sure that they are not only smart but also long-term? And 75 came into focus," he said.

Asked how big the lid could be, Larson said it depends. It could range from 3 or 4 acres to "significantly larger" if it covered the entire east-west span downtown, he said, pointing to the 7.8-mile Big Dig project in Boston and the 5.2-acre Klyde Warren Park in Dallas.

The "deck park," which opened in 2012, was built over a recessed eight-lane freeway. The $110 million project had $56.7 million in government funding, with the rest coming from donations to a foundation.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/politi...wntown-detroit

[mikeg19]

Something we have all been pining for on the pie in the sky wish lists. It would be monumental to cover a portion of 75 but man if they went Brush to 3rd Ave, that's only what, a mile if that? That would be amazing.

[Henry Whalley]

Something we have all been pining for on the pie in the sky wish lists. It would be monumental to cover a portion of 75 but man if they went Brush to 3rd Ave, that's only what, a mile if that? That would be amazing.

IIRC I-75 replaced a surface road named Vernor. At Second Ave., there was a bridge over Vernor connecting Cass Technical to Commerce High School, which was demolished circa 1966-67. Maybe federal, state, and municipal planners already knew that industry in Detroit was becoming obsolete, moving to the deep south, Mexico, and elsewhere?

[Richard]

Ummm,Cincinatti alone received $36 million from the $3.3 billion in federal funding allocated to cities to help reconnect neighborhoods that were torn apart by ramming freeways through them.

You guys got $1.9 million for a study ? Then what ? You can do better.

[Gistok]

Ummm,Cincinatti alone received $36 million from the $3.3 billion in federal funding allocated to cities to help reconnect neighborhoods that were torn apart by ramming freeways through them.

You guys got $1.9 million for a study ? Then what ? You can do better.

Ummm... maybe because Cincinnati has been working on this idea for some time...
https://www.fox19.com/2023/03/07/wha...highway-decks/

While Detroit is just in the initial planning stages...

[royce]

For clarity, is Detroit getting $4.3 million for the study or $1.9 million for the study? Also, why does the study cost so much? Would anyone be willing to roughly break it down? Whether it's $4.3 or $1.9 million, that just seems like an incredible amount of money for a study? Thanks in advance.

[canuck]

For clarity, is Detroit getting $4.3 million for the study or $1.9 million for the study? Also, why does the study cost so much? Would anyone be willing to roughly break it down? Whether it's $4.3 or $1.9 million, that just seems like an incredible amount of money for a study? Thanks in advance.

If you get together a team of civil engineers at 150 to 450k a pop, crunching numbers, estimating costs for a sizeable project, 1.9 million is a pittance. There is an office to be run, travelling costs, and profit. It’s not a sketch on a napkin type project, it may take a year or more to hatch an estimate.

[1953]

How about a lid over 375; that way, they can leave the freeway as it is AND make people happy that the freeway doesn't cut apart the neighborhood anymore. Heck, they can even through up some worn down old wood frame houses to restore it the way it use to be.

[jiminnm]

IIRC I-75 replaced a surface road named Vernor. At Second Ave., there was a bridge over Vernor connecting Cass Technical to Commerce High School, which was demolished circa 1966-67.

Commerce HS was demoed in 1964, and the bridge over Vernor went down with it. The last graduating class from Commerce was in 1964 and the then junior and soph classes transferred to Cass.

[Satiricalivory]

Yes yes yes! This would be amazing for connecting downtown to midtown.

[Richard]

Ummm... maybe because Cincinnati has been working on this idea for some time...
https://www.fox19.com/2023/03/07/wha...highway-decks/

While Detroit is just in the initial planning stages...

they kinda figure decades ago the impact and how to resolve it.

Thats the problem with “shovel ready “ fed programs they do not allow for start to finish projects,gonna wait another 20 years to complete this one until the next round that may or may not come?

Here’s one for ya ,looking at todays needs verses the future needs ,is that taking into account the 40,000 cars n trucks coming through Detroit that will not be the case once the bridge of dreams opens up ?

And the other highways designed to route traffic around Detroit veres through it?

What freeways that have torn apart neighborhoods are actually essential anymore ?

Over a year ago it was making 375 a grade level blvd while spending millions on studies,that one is finished? How does it look ?

Here is an update on that one anyways

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...d/10380105002/

[Gistok]

I-375 is going to be an interesting one... it will be "it's what we asked for, but not what we want". They don't want a sunken freeway to be a moat that separates downtown from Lafayette Park. And yet the folks in Lafayette Park don't want the boulevard going next to them. The state is talking 9 lanes of roadway... well that will certainly connect downtown with Lafayette Park... and be bicycle and pedestrian friendly.

I like 1953's idea of keeping it a sunken roadway and just capping it as well. As I've said before... just visit Port Huron... where I-94/I-69 end in the city center... and traffic goes northbound as M-25... which is 6 lanes of clogged roadway... ANYTHING BUT pedestrian and cyclist friendly.

[Richard]

The problem with capping is it is not a complete solution and requires the same maintenance as a tunnel system but now times 2.

Then you have to decide what goes on top,total Greenspan not much of an issue,but if you are looking to put the space back on the tax rolls how you build the cap is totally different because you have to carry a lot of weight over a large distance with no ability to put support columns in the middle of the lanes below.

Probably not a good idea not to hang around the ventilation stacks.

So it is one of many options and all the options have a good side and a down side,that’s why it is good to discuss it so the people can get involved.

Somebody somewhere along the line is not going to like something about any of it but if you think about it,it’s not worse then having your neighborhood leveled or destroyed to build the thing in the first place.

So there are worse things.

To me personally,I do not agree with capping and green space ,because you are not really tying the neighborhoods back together ,because you will continue to have that dividing wall or boundary.

You could remove the freeway,then dredge a canal to the river and open up a whole lot of pricey waterfront or canal front property,like a little Venice,because even capped it will still flood,because it wants to.

Greenspace - park space is what many cities are doing,but they were lacking in city parks to begin with and once it is established you have to budget for maintaining it,Detroit is kinda different.

Detroit does not have the tax base without increasing it,so you have to look differently and really good at short term and long term goals and what works somewhere else in this case may not be the best idea.

Remember a lot of projects coming online are tax capture,at some point you really have to look at actually thinking about how to generate some actual revenue without having to increase taxes.

Just capping is the cheaper way to do it but it’s like with mass transit,do not pay a little more and do it right,it will be more costly in the long run,your are supposed to be raising the bar and being innovative,not playing follow the leader.

Playing follow the leader is what got people into the mess in the first place.

[Henry Whalley]

Commerce HS was demoed in 1964, and the bridge over Vernor went down with it...

Right, thanks for the correction

[yaktown]

Is this similar to what was done over I-696 in Oak Park?

[Richard]

Is this similar to what was done over I-696 in Oak Park?

Yea,they call it a pedestrian plaza but it is a capped portion,4 acer park on top,it looks like they spent $6 million fixing it in 2016 and then had to go back and spend $30 million to replace it because the fix did not work.

It kinda gives you an idea as to how it is not simply cap and forget because you have just added another layer of maintenance on top of an existing road that requires maintenance.

Same effect on the caps as the roads with freeze and thaw - water gets in,rusts the rebar- starts dripping into the tunnel below,creates a skating rink etc.