Jennifer Crumley was found guilty of four counts of manslaughter.

[Richard]

Read the statements that were put out by the lead juror,the decision to find guilty was based on she was the last adult to have hands on the weapon.

Everything else was an afterthought.

technically if one wants to split hairs,it could have also been the school official who handed the backpack back to the kid while noting it was heavy after finishing a meeting about a gun.

They tried a case based on gun accountability in a state that had no safe storage laws.

Which is kinda cool because now if somebody else’s child or teenager causes you harm,you can sue the parents or hold them criminally negligent because they should have raised their brats better.

Arrest the parent if their child shoplifts,because they should have known in advance that their child had the capability to shoplift.

[401don]

Read the statements that were put out by the lead juror,the decision to find guilty was based on she was the last adult to have hands on the weapon.

Everything else was an afterthought.

technically if one wants to split hairs,it could have also been the school official who handed the backpack back to the kid while noting it was heavy after finishing a meeting about a gun.

They tried a case based on gun accountability in a state that had no safe storage laws.

Which is kinda cool because now if somebody else’s child or teenager causes you harm,you can sue the parents or hold them criminally negligent because they should have raised their brats better.

Arrest the parent if their child shoplifts,because they should have known in advance that their child had the capability to shoplift.

I wouldn't arrest them. Sterilize them maybe.

[canuck]

Everything else was an afterthought, yeah right, as if the sum total of evidence that was presented didn't contribute to the outcome.

You are at least making progress, calling the people arming a weapon.

It also occurred to you that, [[according to your previous post) the idea of more people arming themselves with firearms for protection was a disaster.

Yer gittin’ ther’.

[Richard]

I did not “admit” anything just made a observation,the disaster you alluded to would apply towards the anti gun crowd.

So what does it tell you when a majority liberal/progressive state who resides in the camp of not holding people accountable for crimes,which direct resulted in millions fleeing while millions more bought a gun that would have most likely never had purchased a firearm before,makes a case of accountability that is labeled unprecedented in every news media after the jury and the SA,DA and prosecutors main focus was on the gun?

Kid could of got a weapon anywhere.

When you look into the eyes of your children do you ever question as if they could possibly become a serial killer or school shooter?

Do you think any parent does?

They say up to 80% of the families in the U.S. are dysfunctional and anybody that has raised a teenager knows very well that when they reach that age of independence,they become scarce real quick.

How many chick flics have been made about troubled teenagers?

They are all the same plot - kids hate their parents for trying to throttle them,in kicks the rebellion stage then in the end they all get back together,pass the popcorn and Kleenex.

Real life is not little house on the prairie,and Pandora’s box has been opened.

There is a reason they labeled it Unprecedented,it’s not because it’s the first time they have prosecuted a parent for children’s gun crimes.

It goes back to what are people willing to sacrifice for the rest of their life,for a momentary win.

Teenager borrows your car,gets into an accident that killed somebody,you are now charged with manslaughter because you were the last one with that car in your possession and it was your responsibility to have her/them/it mentally tested by 15 different psychologists before you hanged them the keys otherwise you suck as a parent.

Your teenager goes to a concert,gives somebody else MDA and they die,you are charged With manslaughter because you should have known your kid was on drugs and got him/her/it help.

Take it step further,The officer that is sitting in jail because he tased the kid in the 4 wheeler who ran up under a truck and died.

Can that officer now sue the parents of that kid because if they had never let him have excess to the 4 wheeler,he would have never been riding it on the street.

So this case says,parents have the ultimate responsibility for their child’s actions while in their direct control or not.

So that officer needs to be given a retrial based on if the parents had not given that kid a 4 wheeler and because they could not stop him from riding it illegally they were unsuitable as partners and are responsible for their child’s actions.

So now they get charged with manslaughter or whatever the DA can come up with as they think of a new law to charge them with.

Thats the problem with this case,it was not about a school shooting and holding people accountable according to crimes committed at the start,they could not really go all the way because of the schools immunity clause,so they turned it into an agenda.

Now every single kid you see,is a potential mass murder or school shooter and should be treated as such,because nobody knows or can claim they know what is actually going on in their devious little minds.

They are all a bunch of Chuckies running about until they are proven not or reach the age of 18.

Notice how in this case,nobody has ever said anything about the kid himself as to what drove him?

All the other cases had reason in the shooters mind or justified motive,not a peep in this case,they rushed the kid part in order to get to the root of the matter - the only thing that mattered- the gun.

[canuck]

I know where this thread is headed, lol.

[canuck]

Richard/ re: The kid could have gotten the gun anywhere. Now that is a good one.
So that is meant as an exculpatory argument like the previous ones. I think you should revert to the inanimate object phase of your supplication in behalf of the Crumbleys.

[Richard]

Richard/ re: The kid could have gotten the gun anywhere. Now that is a good one.
So that is meant as an exculpatory argument like the previous ones. I think you should revert to the inanimate object phase of your supplication in behalf of the Crumbleys.

So just make it easy and tell me what you want to hear,when you get to the point where you fail to recognize that somebody in that frame of mind where they have decided to do harm to others,they are not going to go home and sleep on it,they will find a way.

If you want to have a one sided conversation devoid of anything that you would not like to hear,what is the point of a discussion,you can teach monkeys sit around and pick fleas off of each other.

I have never been a lemon in a bag of lemons,some are comfortable with that others are not.

Answer one simple question

What is it about this case that makes it unprecedented?

People are charged all the time for gun crimes when they did not pull the trigger,it is not the first case where a parent has been charged when their child shot somebody.

So why are they constantly referring to this case as unprecedented?

It actually requires a little independent thought and looking at the bigger picture.

The guy in Canada that used a van to mow down a bunch of people,it was okay because he did not use a gun ? Seems to me,he did not need one to carry out his deeds with the same results.

If you feel that way about the crumleys would you be able to physically disperse yourself personally the kind of justice that you wish to see?

The crumleys are 3 people in a country of 350 million,so in the future the other 348 million can pay the price for a moment of satisfaction that justice was served no matter what it took to get it,cites in this country burn for less.

I am a white guy and my years of operating in the grey zone are long over so really it effects me little,but you guys are so wrapped up in your revenge victory dance you are not even aware of the future ramifications and how it will effect generations to come.

You do not need a reason to pull anybody over anymore,it also throws racial profiling out the window.Because you cannot claim it.

Groups like STRESS are now unrestricted,because you do not actually have to break any laws in order to get arrested,they can just make it up as they go along,you guys are so obsessed with guns and getting rid of them you are willing to give up every other right you have for that moment of victory.

I say you guys,but you are Canadian,we already saw where you are willing to give up every right just to stop a truckers strike.

Us Americans are a little more into ours because it is what binds us as a country and we have a constitution that protects those rights.

Holding a trial for accountability for crimes committed is one thing,but to use that trial to further an agenda that effects 350 million others in a negative way is disrespectful to those who lost their lives and those who are still suffering,the end result is going to end creating a lot more pain and suffering of innocent people in the future,maybe even for you,somebody always has to be that other guy.

Are you really that blind that you cannot see what is happening in those cities where those tasked with enforcing established law are now creating it on the fly ?

Our constitution spells out that state legislature are the only ones that are tasked with creating laws,the reason for that is to give the people a voice,when judges,DAs,Prosecutors start creating their own system of justice and creating their own laws as they go along,they have removed the voice of the people,the citizens are no longer in that picture.

The case in Detroit where they immediately released guy that assaulted the woman,back out on the streets in hours,so then he goes and kills her,where was her justice.

Somebody gets mugged on the street and beat up - take a number and file a report - where is their justice?

[gumby]

So much for ole dick not saying anything in the thread.

[drjeff]

I still don't understand why people who never set foot in the state of Michigan, let alone the city of Detroit, spend so much damn time on this forum commenting on literally every thread.

[Jimaz]

I still don't understand why people who never set foot in the state of Michigan, let alone the city of Detroit, spend so much damn time on this forum commenting on literally every thread.

I think it's just a cheap way to foment discord within communities. It's not difficult to imagine why those who fear things like flash mobs would want to preempt their formation by disrupting their nursery. A.I. now provides a cheap and abundant way to achieve that goal.

Maybe that's too simplistic but it's the best explanation of the phenomenon that I've seen to date. I'd love to hear other theories.

[Richard]

I still don't understand why people who never set foot in the state of Michigan, let alone the city of Detroit, spend so much damn time on this forum commenting on literally every thread.

even if it was explained to you,you still would not understand.

If somebody posting on the internet bothers you that much,you might want to seek some help,you have just as much right to contribute in a positive or constructive way,but you choose to be immersed in negativity.

Maybe you could get stoned and come up with some wild theories,just because you do not understand something you make the choice to blame others.

No surprise though I find most Drs do not listen or try and understand their patients and their way of thinking is the only acceptable way.

[southen]

I still don't understand why people who never set foot in the state of Michigan, let alone the city of Detroit, spend so much damn time on this forum commenting on literally every thread.

Easy. Sad man with no friends or hobbies who has to infect every thread in the hopes that people will listen to him because nobody in the "real world" will. He had to make a comment about not commenting, just so people would have to acknowledge him regardless, before jumping in with the same drivel because staying away is just too tough when you have absolutely nothing else going on.

Putting him on ignore helps but then again when you are at his level of toxicity people end up commenting about him and you still have to deal with his crap.

[ABetterDetroit]

Easy. Sad man with no friends or hobbies who has to infect every thread in the hopes that people will listen to him because nobody in the "real world" will. He had to make a comment about not commenting, just so people would have to acknowledge him regardless, before jumping in with the same drivel because staying away is just too tough when you have absolutely nothing else going on.
.

Spot on southen. He has left plenty of clues in the lengthy 6K plus posts to be able to diagnose the condition of his Mental state. It is Safe to say that it is not good. The Rambling post are incoherent nonsensical mishmash. Every hallmark of a mind that lost its battle with sanity exists within them. Pathological lying with severe contradictions that he can’t keep straight. Delusions of grander about self on an anonymous board. Uncontrolled emotions…etc. It is a sad irony that he keeps saying others here need psychological help. Something he is no doubt very familiar with.

[Richard]

I must have ventured into the children’s forum, because sone of you are pretty pathetic while posing as mature adults.

Where do some of you get off thinking that you are that special where anybody else cares what you think,maybe you should be spending less time on forums and more time actually doing something for your city.

Because according to the crowd the rest of the country can piss off,it people like you that give Detroit a bad reputation and no wonder people are fleeing,if you had spent more time taking care of your city without the attitude maybe you would not be in the situation you are.

But you are right and everybody else is wrong,no skin off my back,plenty of other cities in the country to invest in.

Piss poor delegates of a city,you should be real proud of yourself.

Somebody provides you a forum and you are the ones creating the drama because you do not agree with somebody,so you are the ones crapping on what was provided as a city benefit,acting like pathetic little children.

I could get a hobby and trespass on others building while making a profit taking wedding pictures and doing nothing in return,it’s that ingrained mentality,that is screwing it up for the rest of the citizens of the city that are trying to make it a better place because you are owed something.

one has to be a major idiot if they cannot skim past a post if things trigger them so much but then again it would appear as though some would have difficulties fighting their way out of a wet paper bag.

Southern I hope you realize that under the current precedent set had any one of those people that you took to the roof of MTS to photograph got hurt or fallen off and died,you would have been criminally charged possibly as an accessory that resulted in a death.

Because you encouraged them to trespass and they would have never been there had you not provided the opportunity,does not sound very responsible for somebody trying to hold people responsible for their actions.

Think about that.

I am semi retired,what is your excuse where you do not have anything better to do in life then to come on forums and call people out like you are all that,when you are not really.

[southen]

Predictable.

Richard, I am not sure you realize this but the last abandoned building I was in was almost 15 years ago now. The fact that you have some warped biography of me that can almost be measured in decades to memory might be flattering if it weren't so creepy. It is amusing to live rent free in that addled mind of yours though.

Go outside. Find real people to talk to. This isn't healthy. Now back to being hidden. Ciao.

[Richard]

So 15 years ago you exploited the city for your personal gain while giving nothing back in return,while disrupting a forum because you do not like opposing opinions,a forum that was created as a form of giving back to the community and allowing a platform so people could discuss the city and how to make it a better place,and you and a couple of others chose to disrespect that and disrespect,in ways you know full well would not fly in the streets other posters because you personally did not like what they posted.

Yes I pay attention,for reasons that you will never be able to comprehend.

I pay attention to how many supported a city going into bankruptcy and watching it get raped and pillaged.

How many supported a $6 billion dollar bridge that was designed to to move commerce away from a city,while there were those who say they care for a city chose to attack the existing bridge that was bringing commence into the city.

Comments about getting rid of the Grandprix from Belle Isle like it was ati your park that you did nothing to retain,without even taking into consideration that the Grandprix was the major supporter of the conservatory who is now left with little funding.

Supporting a transit system with millions after being told that it will reach its life expectancy in a couple of more years.

Etc etc etc

I occasionally give my personal opinions based on past experiences of things that worked and things that did not,even more so history is predictable,but my personal opinions are the same as anybody else’s.

I do not need to live in Detroit or even visit it because for every action is a reaction,you guys seem to think that is a negative and feebly try and use it against me but at the end of the day I still make money in Detroit based on the bigger picture,which some cannot seem to comprehend.

Then I also look at motive,anybody with any common sense knows full well that if you speak to people like you and others do here on the street it does not end well.

So why would you even think that the internet buys you a pass or safe space?

I notice it is always the same little group that jumps in to rally,you do not contribute in other threads then only jump in to jump on me while turn right around and place the blame on me.

Thats not me whining,I spent a lot more years taking care of myself then you have,that’s me once again looking at the bigger picture.

You brought me to this site

When I first registered,I was looking for answers,the biggest question I had was,how come a city that was so starved for investment and jobs did everything in their power to deter outside investment.

You guys answered that question for me,yes it has a lot to do with the suits but it falls on the people,you guys make it clear that you want no part of anybody that does not live in the city.

You mention it continually.

You talk about my time on here,what about your time ?

Maybe you are the one that needs to be spending more time in the community instead of expecting others to set the table for you just do you can reap the rewards.

You are a business owner and a disgrace to the city,you should be promoting it,just like the other ones that claim to be Dr and highly educated,If you really cared about the city it’s future or even your fellow citizens,you would not be acting like you are acting.

Some of you spend more time on here acting like you are triggered over who posts what and how long their post is,maybe you should be looking in the mirror before calling others out.

But if you were actually mature adults,you would have already known that.

You cannot even recognize the silliness of telling somebody that they spend to much time on the forum,how would you know that unless you were also spending the same amount of time?

If you are so eager to cancel people out,you should start with yourself,because it’s people like you and your little group that is giving the city a bad reputation and making things all that much harder on the ones that are honestly trying to make it a better place.

You are not dissing me,it is them who you are dissing,even worse because they are your neighbors and fellow citizens.

You are not in Kansas,you are a city that is under the watchful eye of the world based on its past legacy,it is on you to make the right choices and show the rest of the world that you can rebuild that legacy or continue down the same path.

It really does boil down to lead,follow or get out of the way.You personally may not care about the rest of the world while you live in your tiny little bubble,but you do have a civic duty not to try and drown the rest of your fellow citizens in your misery.

[Zacha341]

Right, but they have their own governance [and problems] increasingly mandating what their citizens can do, affirm and think.

Canada aside, and back to this conviction subject, I DO wonder how it works that Crumbly the son is tried/ sentenced as an adult, yet parents held accountable? Yes, I do think THEY SHOULD BE in this specific case.

Yet what precedent does this set if the child is tried as an adult as well?

You don't have to look across the big pond for that point of view just look across the river.

[Rocket]

I've been wishing for more of this sort of thing [[Parents being held accountable for what they raise their children to do).

It bothers me that welfare / child support queens can have 6 children by 4 different losers, NOT raise them, and turn them loose on society to commit crime.

Then when the child steals a car, drives it through the front of a liquor store and robs the place and get caught, nothing happens to the parents.

They don't have to pay for the damage to the liquor store or the owner of the stolen car.

If the child can't pay the bill, the parents should have to. Empty their bank acct, confiscate their child support, SOS, SSI, SSD and any other checks until the balance is paid off.

Most of these children will claim they love their mother. Let's see if they really do.

[jcole]

Think of it like a conspiracy. His parents were "in" on it so to speak, by their neglect, laxity, etc, but the son was the trigger man who planned it. They're all guilty to different degrees.

Right, but they have their own governance [and problems] increasingly mandating what their citizens can do, affirm and think.

Canada aside, and back to this conviction subject, I DO wonder how it works that Crumbly the son is tried/ sentenced as an adult, yet parents held accountable? Yes, I do think THEY SHOULD BE in this specific case.

Yet what precedent does this set if the child is tried as an adult as well?

[Richard]

Right, but they have their own governance [and problems] increasingly mandating what their citizens can do, affirm and think.

Canada aside, and back to this conviction subject, I DO wonder how it works that Crumbly the son is tried/ sentenced as an adult, yet parents held accountable? Yes, I do think THEY SHOULD BE in this specific case.

Yet what precedent does this set if the child is tried as an adult as well?

The reason that juvenile courts were originally created in the nineteenth century was because society recognized that juveniles did not have the cognitive development that adults had, would benefit more from rehabilitative services to prevent recidivism, and needed more protections. Sociological and political shifting of attitudes caused legislators to believe they needed to be “tough on crime,” and transfers of juveniles to adult court became more frequent. Results of those policies demonstrate that they have failed as recidivism rates for juveniles increased when prosecuted in adult court versus juvenile court.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/l...inal%20system.

Michigan sets it at age 16, but going back to the start of it all the Justification for charging him as an adult was because they wanted to go after the death penalty.

Remember they also changed jurisdiction to allow the state to take over the case so they could go after the death penalty.

But while I agree there should be accountability,there has been no accountability levels when it comes to parent over children set in law,so it becomes a make it up as it goes along.

You know exactly what comes next,it’s a seesaw of relaxing on crime then tough on crime,but with no happy medium.

They have a new name now as they have replaced stop n frisk,STRESS etc with

Pretextual traffic stops are stops initiated by law enforcement for a minor traffic violation, with the actual purpose of investigating or searching for evidence of another, unrelated crime.

But they are also now doing it with people just walking down the street.

My whole thing in all of this is this was all done without defined boundaries set by law,which gives the courts the ability to set the boundaries as they go along,so on pretext you have broken a law that does not exist.

You already know exactly where this leads to and who gets targeted,another couple of years or less,we are back to cities burning again.

Its going to be interesting when they try the father,notice how in vengeance they went after the mother ,so did they do that because the mother is supposed to be the nurturing one and therefore holds more responsibility in raising a child and by default more accountability?

They did not really try the parents as a family unit while on trial for not being a family unit,they pretty much laid it out as it was the mothers fault.

Lots of families have that ONE family member that has all sorts of problems and issues,it must suck having an only child,as a parent you only have a 50/50 chance that they could go either way.

Maybe thats really why they used to have like 6 kids,it put the odds in the parents favor,if one screws up,you have another 5 that you say you were an okay parent.

So now with this “unprecedented “ case you have to ask the question

In a marriage who holds the greater accountability level ? The mother or the father,this case will tell you that or set the bar for future cases.

Then you also have to determine who is the dominant parent,if the father rules the house or the mother.

If parents were considered equal partners when it comes to raising children,this case would have never been tried with each parent separately.

[canuck]

Thank you for another "all over the place", all dressed pizza, nonsensical post, Dick.

As you stated in your First post: you knew where this thread was headed. Laffta.

[Richard]

Thank you for another "all over the place", all dressed pizza, nonsensical post, Dick.

As you stated in your First post: you knew where this thread was headed. Laffta.

And you contributing without actually contributing puts you on the higher ground?

That would be you not liking what you do not want to hear so you seem to cancel it out in your mind,cannot comment on content so go after the poster. If you are looking to join a group of fluffers,maybe join a group of fluffers,discussion forums are there to look at all sides of input,not just what you want to hear.

But then again the weak minded always follows the easiest path,even if it leads straight off of a cliff.

I understand it’s tough to understand from a Canadian perspective, but in this country it is not illegal to have opposing views and being a little whiner makes you look bad,not me.

Maybe stick to Canada or Cuba or Russia or Venezuela for your little dictatorship views,you have plenty of options to share with other like minded.

Until you actually do share them,but then you get what you wish on others,jail or beaten,they are very adept at suppressing opposing views,Kinda makes you look like an amateur.

You are a parent and now matter how well you think you raised your children,they still are individuals and have an individual mind capable of making decisions outside of your control.

Do you believe that if one of your children does something criminal that you as a parent shares the responsibility in the act and should also be charge with a crime based on you could have prevented it by better parenting?

Its not a difficult question,but my guess is you will do everything possible not to directly answer it and come up with some snark comment about me personally.

This is a thread about a trial being held over a school shooting,but it is not a trail being held over a school shooting,that is why it is being called “Unprecedented “ across the world.

In every shooting in this country,it is already thoroughly investigated including the weapon involved and people are held accountable always has been,even down to the manufacturer of the weapon used.

So answer the question of why is this case is being called “Unprecedented “ .

I know some people,they raised their kids in the most loving surroundings,did everything right,when you met their kid he was respectful and appear to be well mannered,he went off to collage and got his degree.

Came back to Florida and during the night he would go out at night and just randomly shoot and kill somebody,he killed 5 before he was caught.

How is it even possible for a parent to be in total control of their children’s mind and know exactly what is going on in that mind,24/7 365 ?

[canuck]

More of the same. Your cough must sound like an old AMC Rambler, too.

[Richard]

More of the same. Your cough must sound like an old AMC Rambler, too.

That’s okay I understand your predicament that prevents you from having an adult conversation,you live in a country where you run risk of having the police at your door or your family threatened or your bank accounts frozen or seized for simply opposing the government,you cannot help the way you are,living in fear is a powerful motivator.

I kinda like you though,if you want to claim asylum to be away from the fear,I would entertain sponsoring you.

Of course you would have to be a part of a free society and the basics where you are supposed to treat others like you wish to be treated,hard concept to swallow for some and you will apparently struggle at it,but Rome was not built in a day,as they say.

The Rambler was actually a good selling car,better then any Canadian manufacturered vehicle,remind me what vehicle Canada as a country built?

O sorry zero - the French could build at least a crappy Renault,if it was not for American car companies you guys would still be riding around on a moose.

[canuck]

I was looking for your guidance on adult conversation, and that last post was an epiphany.

Scrappy lil’ Dick, the self-proclaimed honorary Detroiter. Well, keep on building your fan club, you have enough self love to sponsor yourself. Lol