Gilbert makes pitch for expanded mass transit in metro Detroit

[Airforceguy]

Detroit billionaire Dan Gilbert wants to see the federal government fund expanded mass transit around Southeast Michigan.

Doing so could help further the efforts of Detroit and the broader region to attract talent, Gilbert said Thursday morning during an event at the Townsend Hotel in Birmingham hosted by the Detroit Free Press. To that end, the mostly privately funded, 6-year-old QLine streetcar that runs along Woodward Avenue could serve as an example that a wide array of parties can work together in the region to get things done.

“The more groups that get behind doing a regional system would [[increase) the chances of the feds funding it,” Gilbert said during the sold-out event. “And just think about how great that would be if you have lines going to [[Detroit) Metro Airport, up Woodward all the way to Pontiac and then going west and going east. It would be unreal. It would be a different city.”


Ridership on the QLine — a 6.6-mile loop between Congress Street downtown and West Grand Boulevard in the New Center area — has been increasing, growing 62% year-over-year, as Crain’s reported in September.


Critics have long contended that the streetcar fails to provide the necessary mass transit viewed as needed throughout the region, and something that sets metro Detroit apart from other major metros in the U.S. with unified systems. While the various transportation systems in Southeast Michigan have been growing and adding service in recent months, the region remains far from having a unified transit infrastructure.


But doing so is critical, according to Gilbert, the founder and chairman of Detroit-based Rocket Companies Inc. [[NYSE: RKT), the umbrella company for Rocket Mortgage and a host of other consumer finance and real estate companies. Gilbert was blunt in his analysis Thursday that expanded transit service was just one of many items needed for the city of Detroit and the broader region to attract talented workers.


The millennial and younger generations “brag” about not having to own a car, Gilbert contended, and ensuring they can do so here is necessary for the region’s economic development effort.


“We've got to be in the game,” Gilbert said. “We weren't in the game for decades — we lost decades. You guys probably all have children or brothers or sisters or relatives that moved to different cities. I think it's become a badge of honor for some parents to brag that their kid is in New York or Chicago. We’ve got to change that.”


Conditions to attract workers from elsewhere while also keeping some of the young people who grow up in the state have improved, the businessman argued. He largely pointed to many of his own efforts through his real estate company Bedrock LLC to reinvigorate downtown Detroit.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/transp...d-mass-transit

[JBMcB]

According to the Q-Line annual report, an average of 2,600 people ride the Q-Line every day. Let's parse that.

The Q-Line usually runs four trains simultaneously. That's 650 people per train per day. It usually runs 12 hours a day, 8AM to 8PM, so that's 54 people per train, per hour.

Let's be generous and assume people are traveling all the way from New Center to Downtown, which takes 20 minutes. We'll split those trips across an hour, which means roughly 18 people per car per full trip. I'm sure that, probably, most people are going from somewhere around midtown to downtown and back. Last few times I rode it, there were more people when we were downtown, and hardly anyone by the time we hit WSU.

Anyways, the trains have a capacity of 125 people, which puts overall average utilization somewhere around 14%.

[stasu1213]

Gilbert for Mayor! He is proposing what a few of us had been blogging on this site for years. Detroit and Southeastern Michigan need a good dependable cross region mass transit system if they want to attract talent, businesses, and stop the hemmorgin of residents leaving the state.
The Governor should had been spouting this concept especially when she ran last year for reelection. She focus more on spending millions in recharging streets for EV owners, which are the minority, than investing millions on mass transit which the majority including Gen X and Z will use and who would increase in population if mass transit is provided as well as amenities in communities to where they would live

[stasu1213]

According to the Q-Line annual report, an average of 2,600 people ride the Q-Line every day. Let's parse that.

The Q-Line usually runs four trains simultaneously. That's 650 people per train per day. It usually runs 12 hours a day, 8AM to 8PM, so that's 54 people per train, per hour.

Let's be generous and assume people are traveling all the way from New Center to Downtown, which takes 20 minutes. We'll split those trips across an hour, which means roughly 18 people per car per full trip. I'm sure that, probably, most people are going from somewhere around midtown to downtown and back. Last few times I rode it, there were more people when we were downtown, and hardly anyone by the time we hit WSU.

Anyways, the trains have a capacity of 125 people, which puts overall average utilization somewhere around 14%.

Reinstall security on the Qline to keep the riff raff off or make them behave

[ABetterDetroit]

The Feds will want see some matching funds on the local level. Where is that going to come from? That issue is the same 50 year old problem when it comes to capital investment in mass transit in Detroit.

[401don]

Gilbert for Mayor! He is proposing what a few of us had been blogging on this site for years. Detroit and Southeastern Michigan need a good dependable cross region mass transit system if they want to attract talent, businesses, and stop the hemmorgin of residents leaving the state.
The Governor should had been spouting this concept especially when she ran last year for reelection. She focus more on spending millions in recharging streets for EV owners, which are the minority, than investing millions on mass transit which the majority including Gen X and Z will use and who would increase in population if mass transit is provided as well as amenities in communities to where they would live

Maybe the governor wanted to get re-elected. In this region the time for her to campaign for transit is when she's not.

[K-slice]

Q Line streetcars should run the length of Grand Blvd, and on the spoke roads to Grand Blvd with an extension further down Woodward to the new transit facility at the Fair Grounds. This would make a well connected urban core and would grow density in this area with less need for cars or parking lots.

Beyond that you'd need a faster system with fewer stops to bring people into the main areas of Detroit and it's suburbs.

[expatriate]

Metro Detroit will never have the density to support decent mass transit, especially if all money is spent widening highways, building more sprawl, and generally making it easier to drive everywhere.

[Jason]

Metro Detroit will never have the density to support decent mass transit, especially if all money is spent widening highways, building more sprawl, and generally making it easier to drive everywhere.

Go look at Edmunton, Canada in Google Maps. Almost their entire metro area is a grid of roads like ours, with low density suburban sprawl and strip malls. They have about 2 square miles that are dense, but they're adjacent to gigantic golf courses and parks which dilute the density.

They have a system where there are somewhat short bus routes which run through subdivisions and connect them to local transit nodes [[usually shopping malls). And then there's a variety of frequent bus, express bus, and light rail lines which connect those nodes to each other. The main routes are fast enough that you can get around town, while the other routes provide coverage.


I would also add that there's enough existing service, ridership, and density, to support building about 6 miles of elevated metro, without a net increase in transit spending. Another 10 miles are plausible but would require a very doable bump in spending, but over a long period of time would become cheaper. No one has actually bothered to crunch the numbers because it's just assumed to not work, but when you actually dig into the specifics of it, the numbers actually do work.

[expatriate]

I have not been to Edmonton and would like to see how they have done it, but I suspect that just being in Canada they are better at this stuff. I would also guess that the history of animosity between Detroit and it's hundred or so surrounding municipals has much to do with our inability to come together on this issue. We have a few "downtowns" in the metro area no major single "business district" anymore. Todays FP has a good synopsis of Detroit's failed subway attempts over the past 100 years.

[401don]

I have not been to Edmonton and would like to see how they have done it, but I suspect that just being in Canada they are better at this stuff. I would also guess that the history of animosity between Detroit and it's hundred or so surrounding municipals has much to do with our inability to come together on this issue. We have a few "downtowns" in the metro area no major single "business district" anymore. Todays FP has a good synopsis of Detroit's failed subway attempts over the past 100 years.

Canada isn't by nature "better at this stuff" but all those surrounding municipalities and the fact that you have ballot measures is obviously the number one factor. 25 years ago Ontario decided to just eliminate metro gov't and fold Toronto's 5 neighboring suburban cities of Etobicoke, North York, Scarborough, York & East York into Toronto. There was barely a peep of public outcry. Of course the income disparity is not nearly as great either.

[Danny]

Gilbert is going to be more creative and beg USDOT to expand his toy trains.

[stasu1213]

Metro Detroit will never have the density to support decent mass transit, especially if all money is spent widening highways, building more sprawl, and generally making it easier to drive everywhere.

20 years ago I would had agreed with you but presently Gen X don't car about owning cars. They would rather commute via bicycle, electric scooters, skateboard, and trolley.

[stasu1213]

Canada isn't by nature "better at this stuff" but all those surrounding municipalities and the fact that you have ballot measures is obviously the number one factor. 25 years ago Ontario decided to just eliminate metro gov't and fold Toronto's 5 neighboring suburban cities of Etobicoke, North York, Scarborough, York & East York into Toronto. There was barely a peep of public outcry. Of course the income disparity is not nearly as great either.

It's not all about municipalities. Detroit couldn't even get the People Mover nor Qline to travel to it's border which is Woodward and 8.

[stasu1213]

Detroit under Duggan started improving the local transportation system with his installment of Dan Dirks from SMART. Then DDOTs services decreased under the new director whom replaced Dirks. That director was clueless running DDOT. While waiting on Gilbert to get the ball rolling again there need to be more Fast Busses running from downtown Detroit to the suburbs. New lines for Fast Busses need to be added to Grand River from downtown en route to Farmington, Van Dyke from downtown en route to Sterling Heights, and Jefferson en route to St Clair Shores. These additions would be helpful during events that are being held downtown

[canuck]

It’s telling that a captain of industry is a prime mover on transit in Detroit where the usual voices are somewhat mute. He is like a one man band orchestrating the city’s revitalization, whereas this would usually comprise various entities promoting the region’s welfare. Transit authorities, politicians and citizens groups are not activated on the transit front.

There seems to be the auto makers’ lurking silhouettes whispering in people’s ears the adage; "every man's car is his castle".

[gratiotfaced]

It’s telling that a captain of industry is a prime mover on transit in Detroit where the usual voices are somewhat mute. He is like a one man band orchestrating the city’s revitalization, whereas this would usually comprise various entities promoting the region’s welfare. Transit authorities, politicians and citizens groups are not activated on the transit front.

There seems to be the auto makers’ lurking silhouettes whispering in people’s ears the adage; "every man's car is his castle".

It kind of sucks how a Republican billionaire has been a bigger champion for transit in Detroit than our Democratic Governor.

[canuck]

It kind of sucks how a Republican billionaire has been a bigger champion for transit in Detroit than our Democratic Governor.

Yes, I agree. He also speaks from a business standpoint. He’s pointing to a problem that industry and commerce responded to in the late nineteenth century in large cities, of which Detroit is a prime example.

With the cost of purchasing, maintaining, insuring a car; the new reality is that transit can diminish the burden on youth and families. The move to make Detroit whole again, to make downtown and midtown the centre of the region needs a concerted push from suburban mayors, but like you say, the state leaders need to steer.

As 401don wrote: the Ontario government forced a merger of major suburbs into one Toronto, and that certainly helped transit projects to take effect with less friction.

[expatriate]

It's not all about municipalities. Detroit couldn't even get the People Mover nor Qline to travel to it's border which is Woodward and 8.

That's not quite fair since the Q-Line was financed privately. Reaching 8 Mile would also bring in Highland Park complicating it further. Besides there is arguably not enough traffic on that corridor to warrant it.

[stasu1213]

It’s telling that a captain of industry is a prime mover on transit in Detroit where the usual voices are somewhat mute. He is like a one man band orchestrating the city’s revitalization, whereas this would usually comprise various entities promoting the region’s welfare. Transit authorities, politicians and citizens groups are not activated on the transit front.

There seems to be the auto makers’ lurking silhouettes whispering in people’s ears the adage; "every man's car is his castle".

I was called a babbling conspiracy nut for texting the same this same thing on here

[stasu1213]

It kind of sucks how a Republican billionaire has been a bigger champion for transit in Detroit than our Democratic Governor.

The Democratic Governor is still part of the old guard probably planted in the seat by industry. Many of her age are techies and artists who uses subways and other means of mass transit. She is now beginning to pay little attention of the need for mass transit for Michigan to help make it a more attractive State for younger people to move to. Gilbert is fighting against a powerful old oligarchy which want to keep Michigan including Detroit shells within themselves.

[canuck]

I was called a babbling conspiracy nut for texting the same this same thing on here

Well, the automakers and associated manufacturers were pretty content with getting their workforce on trams and busses until the car ownership threshold got them thinking. I think it’s pretty obvious in Detroit’s case. I mean GM was making pretty good busses for a long time and were not motivated to keep that going, you can decide for yourself if it’s a conspiracy, it looks like it to me. They dismantled the streetcars in dozens of cities and had a product replacement that hindered car sales, so the motivation to promote transit solutions is nil on the automakers’ side.

[takascar]

20 years ago I would had agreed with you but presently Gen X don't car about owning cars. They would rather commute via bicycle, electric scooters, skateboard, and trolley.

Uuhhhh - of which planet or dimension do you speak, because its not this one.

I would say Millies and Homelanders, sure, but I am an X-er and we are the most car-centric generation still alive today.

[stasu1213]

Uuhhhh - of which planet or dimension do you speak, because its not this one.

I would say Millies and Homelanders, sure, but I am an X-er and we are the most car-centric generation still alive today.

Sorry. I had gotten those born in 1965 to those born in the 80s as another Generation and not labeled X

[takascar]

Sorry. I had gotten those born in 1965 to those born in the 80s as another Generation and not labeled X

Almost correct - X'ers: November 23, 1960 - February 1, 1981
[[from the authoritative source, Strauss & Howe - The Fourth Turning).