Gilbert makes pitch for expanded mass transit in metro Detroit

[Richard]

Unlike in most large cities, it would be so easy to figure this out in Detroit. We have thousands of miles of underused, or unused, right-of-way including railroads where tracks have been removed and surface streets that are 3X wider than they need to be. You could start by taking every spoke road [[with the exception of Woodward) and eliminate half the car lanes and convert to rail.

I'd still rather see the area contained within Grand Blvd connected with additional streetcar lines to bring together our cities greatest assets and re-densify the core, but that will probably never happen.

The ROW for the Detroit interurban lines are still there for the most parts and the wide streets,based on early photos were because they also had a rail line sharing.

So the connect ability with surrounding cites,which would also increase ridership rates in order to offset the slower parts is there without the extra costs of having to acquire additional ROW like a from scratch system would.

There seems to be independent groups pushing for it and an RTA but if the ROW is already there,you can bypass that city and there is not really anything they can do to stop it,there seems to be more of a focus on what one cannot do then what they can do.

What makes it even worse is at a time when barrels of cash are sitting there ready to be spent,Detroits representatives that could get their hands on it are focused on everything but and have been throttled over issues that have zero to do with the city that voted them in to look out for them.

Politics has everything to do with it if you are trying to do it based on taxpayer dollars,if you do not have anybody in your corner you are basically screwed and as it stands,yea at this rate it probably will never happen.

You might be better off courting the private investor groups that are getting into establishing transit lines,originally they were built by private companies.

Yes it was a different senário back then but trends have a habit of returning.

[takascar]

You are a baby boomer

I get to define me - I am an Xer - thats it.

[Gistok]

I get to define me - I am an Xer - thats it.

Like with some politicians... if you repeat something often enough, it must be true...

[Jimaz]

Like with some politicians... if you repeat something often enough, it must be true...

And if even that isn't true, then that just hasn't been repeated enough.

[Airforceguy]

RTA weighing proposal for QLINE control

The Regional Transit Authority of Southeast Michigan is weighing a takeover of the QLINE.The move, should it be approved, would mean a transfer of the 3.3-mile Detroit streetcar system from the nonprofit M-1 Rail to a public 10-member board, with appointed representatives from Macomb, Oakland, Wayne and Washtenaw counties as well as the city of Detroit and the state of Michigan, although the governor’s representative does not vote.
Dave Massaron, chair of the RTA board, said in a news release Thursday that “this transition will help ensure the QLINE remains as a transit option for the community and the city of Detroit long into the future.” He noted that the RTA’s role is “to ensure the ongoing viability of regional transit services.”

M-1 Rail President Lisa Nuszkowski said in a separate release that the rail line is “an asset that was always envisioned as one piece of a larger, connected regional transit system” and that “now is the time to make this transition. Performance has never been better. Ridership is approaching 1 million for the year, and the system’s finances are sustainable over the long-term.” The two entities, according to one release, have “initiated a collaborative due diligence process focused on all financial and operational elements of the transfer. Through this process, the RTA intends to validate M-1 RAIL’s budget and confirm that a transfer to the organization will come with a balanced budget which will impose no additional burden on the region’s taxpayers.”

A decision is expected early next year, although it’s not clear how quickly the transfer could happen.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...l/71924756007/

[K-slice]

Needs to be extended to the new Transit center at the fair grounds, and lines added down Michigan and Jefferson ASAP.

[stasu1213]

I dint mind my tax dollars supporting mass transit as long as corrupt elected officials don't misuse the funding for their personal use. Let's face it. Many residents living in Detroit including the metro areas had taken cutbacks on their places of employments since covid and can't afford to purchase new vehicles. The Governor had signed a bill making purchasing new cars easier for consumers in Michigan. The focus should be on Michigan having dependable safe clean alternative transportation especially for those who don't want to go through the troubles of car ownership. While waiting on the extending of the QLine Metro Detroit need an improvement of it's regional transportation system. More express bus lines should be installed that travel from downtown to Farmington Hills via Grand River, Sterling Heights, via Van Dyke and At Ckair Shores via Jefferson. Services the to resume running from downtown Detroit to the second inner ring suburbs until 10pm for event goers and those whom work in Detroit or in the suburbs after regular work hours.

[expatriate]

As much as I would like to see it, Detroit, much less the metro area doesn't have the density to support decent mass transit. Many cities in Europe that are smaller than Detroit have good systems because most people have an easy walk to their stops at both ends. Even in the golden age of the inter-urban the stops went to the various town centers with population clusters in close proximity. We don't just travel to downtowns anymore, but everywhere in between.

[Danny]

As long its free, I will ride it. So get rid of that fare box.

[stasu1213]

As long as security is hired to ride on each train. Sometimes it safer riding on a subway in New York than riding on the QLine these days

[royce]

Needs to be extended to the new Transit center at the fair grounds, and lines added down Michigan and Jefferson ASAP.

When the Q-Line was introduced I thought it should extend to Birmingham, and maybe up to Pontiac. As I have observed development along Woodward, I no longer think going further down Woodward is the right path for the Q-Line. It's appeal is being in a densely populated area that has attractions such as restaurants, theaters, and sports venues. That's Midtown and Downtown. Beyond Grand Boulevard, there's not much of that.

However, I think an extension along West Grand Boulevard up to the Motown Museum is the best extension of the Q-Line. That extension will bring it passed the Fisher Building and theater, passed Henry Ford Hospital, and then the Motown Museum. Tourists would love it because they could leave downtown from their hotel and only have to catch one means of transportation to go to the Fisher Theater and the Motown Museum. Those working at Henry Ford Hospital would love it for the same reasons. It's a win-win.

[JonWylie]

When the Q-Line was introduced I thought it should extend to Birmingham, and maybe up to Pontiac. As I have observed development along Woodward, I no longer think going further down Woodward is the right path for the Q-Line. It's appeal is being in a densely populated area that has attractions such as restaurants, theaters, and sports venues. That's Midtown and Downtown. Beyond Grand Boulevard, there's not much of that.

However, I think an extension along West Grand Boulevard up to the Motown Museum is the best extension of the Q-Line. That extension will bring it passed the Fisher Building and theater, passed Henry Ford Hospital, and then the Motown Museum. Tourists would love it because they could leave downtown from their hotel and only have to catch one means of transportation to go to the Fisher Theater and the Motown Museum. Those working at Henry Ford Hospital would love it for the same reasons. It's a win-win.

I like that idea, but I would probably put it a bit down my wish list for new streetcars/light rail. I agree that expanding other directions before expanding Woodward is smart, especially then you have to work with Highland Park to go through their part of Woodward. I would probably peg my priorities as Michigan Ave through Corktown, Jefferson towards GP, and Gratiot past Eastern Market. A Grand Blvd extension would probably slot in somewhere either after Michigan or Jefferson, for the reasons you stated having large businesses and tourist attractions, but I do think Michigan Ave should be priority #1.

[Jason]

QLine operating costs are $10 million a year for 15 minute headways. A streetcar circulator should really have more like 5 minute headways, and let's say that would cost $25 million per year.

That would require 12 more streetcars, which at $6 million each, would cost $72 million. The QLine originally cost $142 million [[I forget if that amount includes the roadwork that MDOT was already doing on Woodward. And this amount would be more today, with inflation etc). Including the additional vehicles that it should have had, the cost would be $214 million for 3 miles.

So to add a 3 mile extension from MCS to Eastern Market, and another 3 mile extension down to Indian Village,would cost at least $428 million, and cost $75 million per year to operate.

With some transit lanes, the streetcars could have about the same reliability and speed as the buses, but not better. But with the extra streetcars they'd have more frequent service, while the buses would have less frequent service but would go further on a one seat ride. So all in all, getting around the greater downtown area would be pretty convenient.

The issue is just the cost of it. For reference DDOT is usually around $125 million in operating costs total.

If the goal is just to improve circulation around the greater downtown area, then the transit lanes could be done, and new short frequent bus routes, with very nice high end electric buses and separate branding, could provide the same service, for much much less. The city used to have circulator buses around the greater downtown. If the goal is to improve transit generally, then genuine BRT could be implemented on the spoke roads for less.

The QLine is something that the more you look at it the worse it gets. I really can't see anything to do with it other than making cheap improvements like transit lanes, letting it run until it runs out of money, and then shutting it down. It being converted into a public agency under the RTA is fine and it will extend its life without costing the RTA or the city money, but it's not something that we should be investing in beyond that.

[401don]

Detroit is buying some of the old Scarborough Rapid Transit cars from Toronto as well as parts and equipment to be used on the People Mover. They were similar systems. Toronto scrapped the short line last year.