Big Detroit Auto News Week - Detroit Auto Show & a UAW Strike?

[MichaelAnthonyVideos]

In my opinion, the UAW workers need post retirement care and some type of pension. My mom worked at Ford for decades and now has severe breathing issues due to the chemicals in the plant. With out her health care and pension it would be rough.

[Hypestyles]

curious. we'll see how it goes. with the auto show going on, I'm sure the police will be on extra high alert for the protests, counter-protests, whatever else is going on in the core of downtown. best of safety to all.

with the staggered-out actual walk-offs in only certain areas, my guess it won't be as intense at first as it could be. I don't see Pres. Biden stepping in for now, either.
expect Mr. 45 to try to come up to Macomb county to drum up support [for himself as a fundraiser].

[Henry Whalley]

The old days you had to actually work hard to get ahead.

tldr

[Henry Whalley]

Crazy people are overloading our criminal justice system. Does this happen elsewhere in the world?

UAW President Shawn Fain targeted with threats; Michigan man charged with felonies [[yahoo.com)

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[Jimaz]

Link repair:

...2012_HGK_02957_0438_000[[fang_lijun092317).jpg

[MichaelAnthonyVideos]

It's having a ripple effect with the big three already announcing layoffs.

[Henry Whalley]

It's having a ripple effect with the big three already announcing layoffs.

Idled workers will receive unemployment benefits, get a little relaxation or walk the picket lines. I may be mistaken, but this may be an inflection point like Solidarity was in Poland, only minus the element of civil disobedience.

[softailrider]

As far as the Auto Show goes, I hope it's better than last year. Last year was lame.

[stasu1213]

As far as the Auto Show goes, I hope it's better than last year. Last year was lame.

I wonder if they will have cars lined at Hart Plaza such as last year or is Hart Plaza or the owners not allowing outdoor events to be held there

[Henry Whalley]

Link repair:

Thanks, Jimaz. Chinese Cynical Realism interests me. More than a few of the cynics have been disappeared. If Orange Julius wins or steals a second term, I expect that some of our comedians will be canceled with extreme prejudice as well.

[Dan Wesson]

I was thinking that this new strategy of striking all three automakers piecemeal instead of picking one and settle with the other two accepting the first agreement could backfire. As in nickel and dime the union coffers empty.

[Honky Tonk]

Thanks, Jimaz. Chinese Cynical Realism interests me. More than a few of the cynics have been disappeared. If Orange Julius wins or steals a second term, I expect that some of our comedians will be canceled with extreme prejudice as well.

The comedies couldn't get any better than the ones Bidumb keeps providing.

[Margaret's boy]

The Trudeau mafia has bought off the Canadian autoworkers' union with the promise of battery plants and EV production and wouldn't dare interfere in any strike called by Unifor. They need the support of big unions to lend legitimacy to their draconian policies.

[Richard]

Canada is down to 2 assembly plants out of 7 ? Or no.

It’s all a catch 22 though

Union demands 35% pay increase - manufacturers tack another 35% on the price of a vehicle which is already overpriced.

Unions want to work 30 hours and get paid for 40.

My customers would laugh if I tried that with them and how many union members will say yes if you tell them - I am only working 30 hours but I am going to bill you for 40.

How many tax payers would stand for that ? People go to jail for that stuff.

ICE has 2000 parts
EV has 50
EV takes 1/3 of the workforce then ICE

There is not going to be any UAW left anymore anyways unless they move to Mexico or China they will go the route of the lonely coal workers.

[Lowell]

The companies are up to 20%, UAW down to 30-35%. Looks like something in the mid 20’s should get it done.

Not sure about the other issues but the companies are moving up on those. I think the 30 hour workweek is a red herring tossed out for leverage on other issues considered more important to the union, like tiers.

Let’s not forget that the union gave up a lot during the bankruptcies so I think it fair they leverage the current record profit era to their benefit. The companies are making too much to prolong this.

[JBMcB]

Not sure about the other issues but the companies are moving up on those.

I know one of the thorny issues with GM is the retiree health care fund. The UAW took it over after the bankruptcy and after the recent unfortunateness [[not COVID) it's underfunded. The UAW wants GM to take it over again.

[Henry Whalley]

I was thinking that this new strategy of striking all three automakers piecemeal instead of picking one and settle with the other two accepting the first agreement could backfire. As in nickel and dime the union coffers empty.

The outcome is unpredictable. IMHO labor's predicament is analogous to that Native Americans during the French and Indian War and American War of Independence during which North American tribes adopted various tactics and strategies, and made various alliances; but regardless of approach, all tribes were rapidly exterminated or deported to reservations. How rapidly? Ironmaking began at Zug Island in 1902, just ninety years after Tecumseh's Siege of Detroit.

Presently, labor seeks to eliminate the two-tier society that developed under the neoliberal regime. IME it's a just war worth fighting. With regard to the UAW's coffers, more revenue derives from its Wall Street portfolio than from union dues. IMHO Treasury ought to be committed to bailing out union coffers rather than the investment banks of plutocrats.

P.S. The planets are somewhat aligned in that among our pale unwashed masses MAGA sentiment seems to favor reshoring work, which would mean increasing labor's share of the pie.

[Richard]

The companies are up to 20%, UAW down to 30-35%. Looks like something in the mid 20’s should get it done.

Not sure about the other issues but the companies are moving up on those. I think the 30 hour workweek is a red herring tossed out for leverage on other issues considered more important to the union, like tiers.

Let’s not forget that the union gave up a lot during the bankruptcies so I think it fair they leverage the current record profit era to their benefit. The companies are making too much to prolong this.

I am not sure of the intricacies of union labor but how are they employed? Hourly,hourly plus profit share ?

The auto manufacturers have had some profitable years as of late but they have also have had down years and last year Ford lost over $2 billion on the EV side of things and will be losing more as they ramp up.

So does that meen the union workers on the EV side of things have to take a salary reduction because they do not not have the - you made profit and can afford to pay us more thing to use?

I am not sure where all of this is coming from,as an employee I am entitled to a salary based on your profit numbers but not required to help in the losses.

I would hate to go work for a non profit if that is how it works.

So next year if the manufacturers make less profit can they go back to the table and ask for a salary reduction?

What is the line of profit a company can make before it is expected to share those profits with hourly employees that did not sign up under a profit sharing agreement.

With that thought pattern pretty much every small business gets wiped out,you cannot pay people based on your profits because if you hit a down economy they are not going to cut you a check and cover your losses.

That’s like saying my neighbor makes more then me,so he needs to give me some of his pay because he can afford to.

Tesla has 130,000 employees that on the average make $20 per hour less then a union job,you would think they would have zero employees because they would all be flocking to the other manufacturers.

I am thinking the only reason they put this union boss in was because they were planning on going to war.

Nice Pelosi move of dramatically ripping the proposed contract up in front of the cameras.

Fiat has been dealing with the mob long before the mob even existed in the United States,they are used to being hardballed,they could take the write off and move to Mexico tomorrow and not blink an eye.

For that matter is there a law that says the big 3 in Michigan are required to remain there,okay maybe historically but people do not care about the past anymore,it’s about today.

But it is just as easy for all of them to branch off the EV production in other states and systematically phase out their presence there.

I agree with that’s how negotiations work,start by asking for the sky and except a cloud in the end.

It seems like the last 10 years when the union played hardball the companies just shut down and took their ball home and left all the workers in the street.

Because of the position companies like ford are in,they can reach that breaking point where they just say screw it and move,if they have to take a write down for a couple of years,it does not matter and the shareholders would love them even more when they shave billions off of payroll etc.

[Henry Whalley]

That was the plan all along. Fain is a strategist. Just as he picked 3 certain very profitable plants to initiate the start of the strike. Whether it works or not remains to be seen.

Warning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoYb2MVZpIk

[Rocket]

The companies are up to 20%, UAW down to 30-35%. Looks like something in the mid 20’s should get it done.

I believe those numbers don't include any of the healthcare and pension benefits though.

The UAW's proposal was costed out recently, and it comes out to $150. an hour.

Toyota, BMW and the like down south pay the equivalent of $55 an hour.

So if the UAW gets anything like they're asking for, the Big 2.5 will be out of business in a couple of years.

[Danny]

Solidarnosc!

[Richard]

I believe those numbers don't include any of the healthcare and pension benefits though.

The UAW's proposal was costed out recently, and it comes out to $150. an hour.

Toyota, BMW and the like down south pay the equivalent of $55 an hour.

So if the UAW gets anything like they're asking for, the Big 2.5 will be out of business in a couple of years.

I know several that work at those factories in the south and related suppliers,they do pretty well,own homes on land,drive new cars and have stay at home wives.

You would think it was COL but when I ran the numbers it’s only a $100 difference between the two states.

I agree,with legacy costs no way the big 3 can compete when it comes to the future EV production. So it is all borrowed time anyways,so it becomes a matter of those who still have a job getting as much as they can while they can which is going to force the manufacturers to transition all the faster.

But in the world of EVs they have already lost the battle,maybe not the war with time but all of these other EV manufacturers like Tesla and the Chinese are starting with a clean slate where they can get a foothold and market share before these guys even get ramped up.

There is going to come a day,soon where those 3 will no longer exist as we know them today,look at what has already happened without the EV aspect being thrown in there.

[JBMcB]

But in the world of EVs they have already lost the battle,maybe not the war with time but all of these other EV manufacturers like Tesla and the Chinese are starting with a clean slate where they can get a foothold and market share before these guys even get ramped up.

Tesla is an interesting comparison. Their next wave of factories will have very, *very* few assembly line personnel. They are targeting making their low end models around $20,000, and they are trying to get there by automating nearly everything, and using new batteries that are cheaper to produce, also using less manual labor. They have tried this before, but couldn't get all the robots to work properly. They've been working on those problems for the last decade or so, and say they've solved them.

So, that's what your competition is doing.

[Henry Whalley]

...They've been working on those problems for the last decade or so, and say they've solved them.

If Tesla hasn't solved robotics after a decade, it probably wouldn't admit it. Tesla's debt is no longer junk-rated, but it's CEO is still junk IME. Though I'm not an economist, I don't see Tesla as a solid investment for the following reason:

I have mixed feelings about company bailouts. But IIRC Treasury rescued Detroit's automakers in December 2008 only because the companies were *responsible* for the livelihoods of so many employees and retirees. And I use the word *responsible* very loosely. Conversely, if Musk's enterprise goes belly-up, there won't be much sentiment for rescuing the robots.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

The comedies couldn't get any better than the ones Bidumb keeps providing.

Let's face it, we're doomed as both of them are clown shows.