Hamtramck council bans LGBTQ flags on City Property

[Danny]

Even folks of Y.M.C.A. love their song, it become their national anthem.

[Danny]

At least Hamtramck has its polka pride.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSJAYcnDaGQ

[Richard]

For all the "Don't Say Gay" DeSantis lovers...

prime example of why there is so much controversy,because people go out of their way in order to spin words out of context and create it where it never existed in the first place.

“Don’t say gay “
” Banning pride flags on government property is an attack on gays”

[Danny]

prime example of why there is so much controversy,because people go out of their way in order to spin words out of context and create it where it never existed in the first place.

“Don’t say gay “
” Banning pride flags on government property is an attack on gays”

Is banning Nazi Swastika Flags on government property an attack on Nazis?

Is banning Christian, Jewish, Muslims and other religions flags on government property is an attack on religion?

Those flags has nothing to do with America. Hamtramck City Council is following the first amendment right of the U.S. Constitution. Governments are not allow to pass laws based on religion, familiar culture or any freedom of speech. They only allow with other state and federal laws that is implied in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. The LGBTQ Pride Flags does not represent America. It's an international sexual revolutionary cause to let people show their Sodomistic nature to everyone even to children. They are not a nation just a sex cult to poke fun against higher authority. And thanks to U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Governance of our laws and human rights in the United States rest upon the people's decision of our democracy. Even through some folks don't like it. At least our U.S. Constitution promotes LGBTQ Pride Flags and showing their sexual nature is allowed in America. So get used to it Americans! This is our free country.

[Henry Whalley]

At least Hamtramck has its polka pride.

Little known fact. Polka pride predates civilization.

[oladub]

Did the Hamtramck flag policy extend to its school district or does it just apply to Hamtramck's government buildings? I would think that school districts have their own governance and set their own policies. However, schools might be considered municipal buildings.

School boards across the Country are setting their own policies on flags. Some school boards are limiting which flags are displayed on flagpoles and even in classrooms. Others school boards are authorizing the display of rainbow flags. Teachers unions are pushing for pride flags. The CA teachers union is threatening to sue school districts that limit the display of pride flags. Meanwhile, California's K-12 schools rank 38th. among the states.

I congratulate the Hamtramck City Council and Mayor for a prudent decision keeping its government focus on roads and whatever else governments do. I hope this extends or will be extended to schools.

Aside: I do have a dog in this fight. Two of my grandchildren attend a public school that had a pride flag flying over it the entire month of June. I think the older seventh grade grandson sort of understands the politics of this. He is very aware that his mother and her Asian friends are shocked at the low academic expectations at area schools. The pride flag is emblematic that merit is not prioritized here.

[kuuma]

comparing queer people to nazis because we also have a flag? implying the pride flag is somehow deprioritizing school achievement? where in the hell are you people getting this garbage? i've been avoiding this thread for a reason, but i'm speechless. yall are cruel-spirited and frankly disgusting.

this isn't discourse or even conversation, this is just a bunch of bitter boomers seething from within their ignorant bubble. to everyone spouting this shit, i look forward to the day you're all gone from this earth and we can finally repairing the damage you've done.

until then, enjoy your petty remaining time. i'll find somewhere less filled with hateful people to talk about what's happening in the city of detroit.

[jcole]

Please don't lump all boomers in with the ones you are referring to on here. I am mid boomer and I don't believe any of the crap 3 or 4 of these people are spouting nor do I know if more than 2 of them are actually boomers. I have many friends my age who promote Pride, BLM, Trans rights, gay marriage and a multitude of other things as well as being ashamed of the people our age who act as if they never lived through Equal Rights, the anti Vietnam era and don't trust anyone over thirty. I believe people are people and deserve to be treated equally in all ways.

comparing queer people to nazis because we also have a flag? implying the pride flag is somehow deprioritizing school achievement? where in the hell are you people getting this garbage? i've been avoiding this thread for a reason, but i'm speechless. yall are cruel-spirited and frankly disgusting.

this isn't discourse or even conversation, this is just a bunch of bitter boomers seething from within their ignorant bubble. to everyone spouting this shit, i look forward to the day you're all gone from this earth and we can finally repairing the damage you've done.

until then, enjoy your petty remaining time. i'll find somewhere less filled with hateful people to talk about what's happening in the city of detroit.

[dtowncitylover]

comparing queer people to nazis because we also have a flag? implying the pride flag is somehow deprioritizing school achievement? where in the hell are you people getting this garbage? i've been avoiding this thread for a reason, but i'm speechless. yall are cruel-spirited and frankly disgusting.

this isn't discourse or even conversation, this is just a bunch of bitter boomers seething from within their ignorant bubble. to everyone spouting this shit, i look forward to the day you're all gone from this earth and we can finally repairing the damage you've done.

until then, enjoy your petty remaining time. i'll find somewhere less filled with hateful people to talk about what's happening in the city of detroit.

It really should be no surprise that as something as sensitive as human sexuality and the blowhorn and flaunting of sexology and sex so obvious in the public sphere right now would receive a reactionary response. As someone who considers himself G, I've noticed since probably 2015 and the rise of the heightened visibility of transgender persons, that the LGBTQ+ community has completely bought into a leftist groupthink attitude and unbridled religiosity that MUST be accepted and affirmed by all or else. This is what makes it a cult and as much as the LGBTQ is critical of religious "indoctrination" and hate, they don't see the beam sticking out of their own eye. It's a pretty self-centered view to think that everyone has to accept and affirm me, when nothing of the sort has ever been guaranteed in life.

[Richard]

A lot of it has to do with forces outside of a movement,that use the movement in order to encourage social unrest to fit their own objectives.


It’s happening in France right now,the woman’s movement and BLM hit their peak in 2016 and carried into 2020 same with BLM.

So what happened ? Women did not care about a movement until 2016 then in 2020 all of the sudden they had everything and just shut up and sat down ? Same with BLM.

People are using movements as pawns in a bigger game.

You cannot be mainstream woman,man,gay,lesbian,African American or anybody anymore,you have to either step into the radicalization of it or you are osterized.

People have that right to make a choice,but if you have somebody within the group saying that you have to agree with the whole package or you are not who you want to be,so you are no longer an individual and the group dictates how you will think and act,like one big part of a collective.

Thats really what it boils down to,the systematic conditioning of people to act and think like we are all one.

I agree,just because one is gay it does not meen that by default they have to like or support everybody else that is gay no matter what form they are in.If it is really about individuality.

Its the commies and socialists sticking their grubby little paws into every aspect of society,the real meaning of the causes that they hijack really has no role in it,it’s all about divide and conquer and using causes as Trojan horses in order to keep people at each other’s throats.

If you do not comply to the group think,one way or another they will look for ways to destroy you and make you an outcast.

It works in places like China and Cuba but as Americans it is in our DNA not to be in situations where we are forced to take on views that we do not believe in.

I do not care if somebody wants to be a trans,in this country they have that right of freedom to choose,I do not have to agree with it and the line gets crossed when you try to force me to agree with it.

It really has nothing to do with boomers,if that was the case then the country went to hell during WW2,so it was actually the Germans fault.

If they had not started the war,women would have never entered the work place like they did,if they stayed home cooking and cleaning and spending the time to raise families right we would not be in the mess we are in now.

And everybody would be living in a constant state of a Little House on the Prairie fantasy.

Sometimes I think the Amish are the smart ones,life does not get anymore simple then that.

I have to admit,if I was gay,black or a woman I would be glad that I was so in America,because as rough as people make it out to be,there are still countries where slaves are still being sold,gays are shot or in prison and women do not even rate on any scale.

And you cannot blame it on the white man,because white men have zero to do with anything in those countries.

[Baselinepunk]

Wow!

Sooo many religious rightwing nuts jobs on this board and sooooo little time.

FLMAO!!

[Danny]

Did the Hamtramck flag policy extend to its school district or does it just apply to Hamtramck's government buildings? I would think that school districts have their own governance and set their own policies. However, schools might be considered municipal buildings.

School boards across the Country are setting their own policies on flags. Some school boards are limiting which flags are displayed on flagpoles and even in classrooms. Others school boards are authorizing the display of rainbow flags. Teachers unions are pushing for pride flags. The CA teachers union is threatening to sue school districts that limit the display of pride flags. Meanwhile, California's K-12 schools rank 38th. among the states.

I congratulate the Hamtramck City Council and Mayor for a prudent decision keeping its government focus on roads and whatever else governments do. I hope this extends or will be extended to schools.

Aside: I do have a dog in this fight. Two of my grandchildren attend a public school that had a pride flag flying over it the entire month of June. I think the older seventh grade grandson sort of understands the politics of this. He is very aware that his mother and her Asian friends are shocked at the low academic expectations at area schools. The pride flag is emblematic that merit is not prioritized here.

LGBTQ Pride Flags are not suppose to waved in public schools or classrooms. Public Schools are not to teach sexual culture to any kids under the age of 13. Let them run their puberty course first and then we can tell them about sexual culture.

[Honky Tonk]

LGBTQ Pride Flags are not suppose to waved in public schools or classrooms. Public Schools are not to teach sexual culture to any kids under the age of 13. Let them run their puberty course first and then we can tell them about sexual culture.

Then how else are they supposed to get groomed and indoctrinated?

[Henry Whalley]

...Sooo many religious rightwing nuts jobs on this board and sooooo little time.

Are you religiously intolerant?

Take a pill. And keep it in your pants until behind closed doors at home. Queer doesn't give you more rights.

[oladub]

In post #81, I asked, "Did the Hamtramck flag policy extend to its school district or does it just apply to Hamtramck's government buildings?" Eliciting no reply, at least related to my question, I Googled something to the effect, "are schools city property?" My oracle responded,

"Public property refers to property owned by the government [[or its agency), rather than by a private individual or a company. It belongs to the public at large. Examples include many parks, streets, sidewalks, libraries, schools, playgrounds that are used regularly by the general public.'

The language of the Hamtramck flag ordinance reads in part,

"The City of Hamtramck does not allow any religious, ethnic, racial, political, or sexual orientation group flags to be flown on the City's public properties, and that only, the American flag, the flag of the State of Michigan, the Hamtramck Flag, the Prisoner of War flag on City property."

Unless there is more to it, that means that Hamtramck schools can't fly anything but those four flags either because the schools too are public city property if they are owned byowned by the City. If so, this ordinance is much broader than the way it has been reported. However, there may be a loophole. The word 'flown' is used in the ordnance. So if a teacher wanted to affix flag decals on their whiteboard or the window, then technicaly, they would not be out of compliance.

[Richard]

Then how else are they supposed to get groomed and indoctrinated?

They say it is not happening but it is,I have a friend who’s daughter is in high school,she tells me that you are not considered “cool” unless you slept with a member of the same sex,with some kind of proof.

In the 70s we had a sex education class,okay so you include same sex in that class and then let it be.

I just glad my granddaughters went to a charter school where everybody was treated equally and there were no special groups.

Its a bit hypocritical to preach inclusivity while targeting people that do not which to be included.

A lot of it also diverting from the real issues schools face,our school may have an F rating when it comes to basic educational needs but at least they are well aware of social issues that they cannot even comprehend in the first place.

France was arresting 11-12-13 year old kids that were out burning buildings and cars.

It you teach kids to be in a constant state of confusion it’s easy to control them in the future as adults.

[Richard]

In post #81, I asked, "Did the Hamtramck flag policy extend to its school district or does it just apply to Hamtramck's government buildings?" Eliciting no reply, at least related to my question, I Googled something to the effect, "are schools city property?" My oracle responded,

"Public property refers to property owned by the government [[or its agency), rather than by a private individual or a company. It belongs to the public at large. Examples include many parks, streets, sidewalks, libraries, schools, playgrounds that are used regularly by the general public.'

The language of the Hamtramck flag ordinance reads in part,

"The City of Hamtramck does not allow any religious, ethnic, racial, political, or sexual orientation group flags to be flown on the City's public properties, and that only, the American flag, the flag of the State of Michigan, the Hamtramck Flag, the Prisoner of War flag on City property."

Unless there is more to it, that means that Hamtramck schools can't fly anything but those four flags either because the schools too are public city property if they are owned byowned by the City. If so, this ordinance is much broader than the way it has been reported. However, there may be a loophole. The word 'flown' is used in the ordnance. So if a teacher wanted to affix flag decals on their whiteboard or the window, then technicaly, they would not be out of compliance.

I think it is because most people do not know how schools actually operate.

I can say in Florida anyways,the public school system is a hybrid of sorts,they are their own governing authority,they do not even need permission or city planning or permits to even build a new school.

They have state and federal guidelines they have to follow concerning education standards and students rights as citizens.

But at the end of the day they receive money from the state government and local taxpayers,so like when you see the governor of Florida telling schools to comply,he cannot actually force them to,he can gain public support so the parents put pressure on the school board for change or he can threaten to withhold funds and sense as a rule school board administrators like to dictate their own salary and the children are a commodity that is used to collect that salary you get their attention when you hit them in the pocket book.

It is being handled differently across the country and ACLU has won a few cases and the Supreme Court ruled that a Christian group in Ohio had a right to fly their flag on public property.

In other cities kids have walked off of school grounds in protest for not flying the flag,it has never been about changing the system by challenging it in the courts,it has always been allow us to be excepted or die.

Since school districts operate as an independent body,you may have one district be fine with flying the flag while the next one may not be.

Florida is pushing legislation in order to provide a definition of where flags may be flown on public property to include schools.

The only requirement now is the United States flag be flown in every class room and every building and the state flag be flown in at least one building.

But in the south how is opposition to flying the pride flag in schools any different then the ones who wish to see the confederate flag being flown?

People destroyed statutes and set off protests that burned cities because they did not like what that symbol represented but yet turn right around and demand that everybody except the symbol that they have chosen.

So both sides dig their feet in deeper.

I do not think it is an issue of people hating on the rainbow flag,even though that is the canned response,but where does it all end?

If you want to fly the rainbow flag in school,fine as long as every other group has the same right to fly their flag of support including white supremacy and Nazis.

Once again you cannot claim inclusion when you seek to exclude those who you do not support.

So one may hate that Nazi just as much as that Nazi hates your gayness,but in this country,no matter what everybody is equal,when you start picking and choosing who is equal and who is not based on wheather you agree with the way they live their life or who they worship or anything else then we are no longer a country of freedom.

And that is really what people seek to eliminate and control,those freedoms.

As a Republic we are bound by the constitution,in that constitution we are afforded rights to practice democracy at the state and local level.

That was designed that way to give the power to the people and not the federal government,if you do not like something you have the right to practice democracy and use that system to implement change.

The one right you do not have is the ability to demand a change and force people to comply to that outside of the parameters set out by the laws of our country.

You also do not have the right to say your cause is more important or deserves priority over everybody else.

When you step outside of those parameters and try to force others to comply you are going to get push back and have to expect a deeper hatred towards your cause.

The constitution demands that all U.S. citizens be treated equally,it’s peoples failure to understand that is what creates all of the turmoil in this country.

I does not give us room to pick and choose who we may treat equally or who we may not.

That is the biggest failure in the school system of today,they are not teaching children what protections they have under the constitution and how to use the system to implement change.

They are teaching them to lash out and normalizing that as a standard for systematic change,then shed a tear when there is a school shooting when a child is doing exactly what they taught them to do.

[jcole]

Lowell, can you put some yellow safety tape around this thread please?

[Jimaz]

I have a whole roll of yellow crime scene tape if necessary.

{We used it to tape off a marketing guy's office as a prank when he got into some minor trouble. He fell for it. He thought it was serious. LOL! Man, was that guy worried.}

[Richard]

Lowell, can you put some yellow safety tape around this thread please?

Part of a healthy discussion is the ability to look at all sides of a discussion,weather you agree with it or not is not a requirement.

To seek a discussion that only discusses what you want to hear does not seem very inclusive to me anyways even more so when the subject is centered around that very thing.

[Gistok]

They say it is not happening but it is,I have a friend who’s daughter is in high school,she tells me that you are not considered “cool” unless you slept with a member of the same sex,with some kind of proof.

Richard, so you heard [3rd person] from a friend's teenage daughter's, schoolmates... that indoctrination is going on right under our noses... Well that's almost an anecdote.

[Henry Whalley]

a lot of it has to do with forces outside of a movement...

tldr

[Richard]

Richard, so you heard [3rd person] from a friend's teenage daughter's, schoolmates... that indoctrination is going on right under our noses... Well that's almost an anecdote.

What happened to the logic?

She was there,she told me about the experience,how exactly does that make her a [3rd person] or are you just assuming she was a 3rd person in the act?

Things only happen under your nose if you are too busy keeping it up in the air.

[Gistok]

What happened to the logic?

She was there,she told me about the experience,how exactly does that make her a [3rd person] or are you just assuming she was a 3rd person in the act?

Things only happen under your nose if you are too busy keeping it up in the air.

I wasn't going to waste anymore of my time trying to explain logic to you, since you don't seem to want to hear it... but here it goes...

ANECDOTAL FALLACY...

An anecdotal or informal fallacy... where personal experience or a singular example is used to support an argument or position instead of compelling evidence. People often gravitate towards using their own experiences or those of people around them as evidence in arguments. It's natural to do so as citing scientific evidence to craft a good argument takes effort and most of us are lazy thinkers and opt for the quicker and easier System's 1 thinking versus the required metacognition of System's 2 thinking.

[Richard]

I wasn't going to waste anymore of my time trying to explain logic to you, since you don't seem to want to hear it... but here it goes...

ANECDOTAL FALLACY...

An anecdotal or informal fallacy... where personal experience or a singular example is used to support an argument or position instead of compelling evidence. People often gravitate towards using their own experiences or those of people around them as evidence in arguments. It's natural to do so as citing scientific evidence to craft a good argument takes effort and most of us are lazy thinkers and opt for the quicker and easier System's 1 thinking versus the required metacognition of System's 2 thinking.

You are wasting your time after saying you were not going to waste your time and to top it off border line animal abuse by continuing to beat a dead horse.

Come up with a fancy term for that

If you get hit by a train,you can personally say it hurts so who is anybody else to turn around and tell you it does not because they have a fancy explanation as to why it does not,it does not dispel the fact that it still hurt.

Try it and see if your personal experience is any different if I tell you that it is all in your mind and then try and convince you that it is not logical to say it hurt when common sense would dictate that it would hurt like hell.

Not that I am advocating that you jump in front of a train to see if it actually applies in reality but most that are book smart seem to lack basic common sense when it comes to reasoning or common sense,if it is not there printed out for them in the proper format and with proper spelling and sentence structure they become lost in the real world.

You should put down the book sometimes and you may discover there is a whole nuther world out there that you never knew existed.

Don’t be scared,there may even be groups out there that offer a 5 step program that will help you integrate into the real world and offer support so you are not alone,I have faith in you and it is not really your fault that you have been systematically conditioned to think that way,but if you really want to you can overcome this obstacle,break those bonds of mental entrapment and start living life.

I will be here for you as an ear to listen if you have a weak moment on your road to recovery

I do not view responding to you or anybody else as wasting my time,because your thoughts,no matter how far out in left field I may feel they are,are important to you otherwise you would not have taken the time to post them and who am I to say my thoughts are more important then yours. I do not have to agree with them,I just have to respect that you have the same right as I do to have them.

If we all thought the same we would be nothing but a machine reading from a preprogrammed script that dictates how we think and not as individuals,then that script would come up with all sorts of fancy definitions as to why we should not think as individuals.

That is what makes us human,the ability to think,act and respond as individuals.

Of course if one is a socialist or comme then,yea,the objective would be to have everybody of one mind,because it makes it easy to control them.

And one always has to take into consideration that there are those who seek that and will look for ways to make you conform to a standard of a singular mind or look for ways to justify in their mind that you are not a good person because you do not fall into lockstep with that.

Tough world out there,always have to be looking at actual motives,the book teaches you black and white and not to deviate from those parameters,but we live in a grey world and things are not always black and white.