ObamaCare

[Detroitej72]

The free market solution sounds an awful lot like genocide since the poor and disadvantaged will not be able to afford health care and will be left to die away.

[oladub]

The free market solution sounds an awful lot like genocide since the poor and disadvantaged will not be able to afford health care and will be left to die away.

The free market solution would allow a greater percentage of people to be able to afford health care. Unfortunately we do not have a free market. We have a collusion of big business and government interests making health care expensive. When you can, as an example, order any drug from anywhere in the world without a prescription, you might have a free market. If we did have free market solutions, there would still be a smaller number of people needing help from charities and local governments. We could do without the expensive insurance policies, trial lawyers, and other non-healing medical stakeholders.

Obamacare instead broadens our present expensive system to the delight of insurance companies, pharmaceuticals, and trial lawyers while [[abracadabra) tranferring some costs to taxpayers. If you just want a government system, adopt Ontario's single payer plan. It is also cheaper than the one we have even before Obama makes it more expensive.

[Papasito]

It's funny when the Democrats scream the evil Republicans are going to cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid,
[[scaring those old folks in order to get their votes, of course)

Then turn around and propose pimping health care insurance that requires cutting all of the above in order to pay for it!

Hypocrites

[rb336]

It's funny when the Democrats scream the evil Republicans are going to cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid,
[[scaring those old folks in order to get their votes, of course)

Then turn around and propose pimping health care insurance that requires cutting all of the above in order to pay for it!

Hypocrites

no. you are just utterly misinformed. Democrats, by and large, are NOT liberal. they are moderate conservatives. were they not, single payer would have been on the table, and probably the final bill would have a medicare buy-in option available as close to immediately as possible, and a trigger to launch single-payer if the insurance companies don't get their act together

[Zacha341]

Interesting point. Sometimes it does not matter about the content or policy, just "who" is effecting the change or who's holding the reigns of power... the rest is ignored for partisan loyalty sake.

It's funny when the Democrats scream the evil Republicans are going to cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid,
[[scaring those old folks in order to get their votes, of course)

Then turn around and propose pimping health care insurance that requires cutting all of the above in order to pay for it!

Hypocrites

[ccbatson]

If you were right Rb...you would be in deep doodoo and on your way to Venezuala or Cuba.

[rb336]

If you were right Rb...you would be in deep doodoo and on your way to Venezuala or Cuba.

why? explain this absolutely imbecilic comment

[ccbatson]

Not so...catastrophic care policies, HSA's, market driven prices....all result in affordable [[to everyone) health care.

[mrrichard]

Obama Don't Care

That's why he did not put one sentence into the bill. When it fails he can blame others.

[d.mcc]

Obama Don't Care

That's why he did not put one sentence into the bill. When it fails he can blame others.

Also because the President cannot write legislation...

The U.S. ranks 45th among the world's countries in terms of life expectancy, with an average life expectancy of 78.06 years ... which doesn't sound that bad, until you consider that they live nearly seven years longer, on average, in Macau.

[Hermod]

Also because the President cannot write legislation...

.

The president [[and his staff) can "write" legislation and send the proposed bill over to Congress and have a friendly congressman propose the bill [[yeah, a committee is going to mark it up or destroy it) and see if Congress will pass it. The president can do more than just say "I want a health care bill", he can flesh out his proposals in as much detail as he desires.

[ccbatson]

Oladub nails it once again...first socialism, then corporate socialism....NOT FREE MARKET HEALTH CARE.

[rb336]

Why do these right-wing morons continuously call it "obamacare" when he hasn't typed a word of it, when it fails to meet his guidelines [[but he says he will sign it anyway)? just curious

[oladub]

Why do these right-wing morons continuously call it "obamacare" when he hasn't typed a word of it, when it fails to meet his guidelines [[but he says he will sign it anyway)? just curious

Actually more constitutional libertarian in my case. I consider both right wing neo-cons and liberals to be authoritarian statists; the strong central government promoting heirs of Hamilton. The reason it is referred to as Obamacare is because he is the promoter and head cheerleader of this plan even though it might not be what he wants. I assume Obama would rather have an affordable single payer plan [[so would I) but his paymasters have other ideas. Instead of 'Obamacare' maybe we should call it "the Insurance/Pharmaceutical/trial lawyer profit maximization and government expansion plan" but 'Obamacare' works as shorthand.

[rb336]

maybe we should call it "the Insurance/Pharmaceutical/trial lawyer profit maximization and government expansion plan"

That would, at least, be accurate, although there are a bunch of things trial lawyers don't like in it -- they're a red herring anyway

[elganned]

Oladub nails it once again...first socialism, then corporate socialism....NOT FREE MARKET HEALTH CARE.

I find it ironic that you would be screaming for "free market" healthcare when your profession is the largest group of "second handers" in the current mix.

[rb336]

when I see these wingnuts posting one image pops in my mind -- a bunch of straw men fishing for red herring

[Sstashmoo]

I seen a poll yesterday that shows 70% polled are for some sort of federally funded or assisted healthcare, only 30% of those polled, support this bill.

[mrrichard]

Now the rationing is starting, women don't check for tumors as often as we said.
It will go into effect after Osama is out of office relaxing with his tens of millions.

RE: Papasito It's funny when the Democrats scream the evil Republicans are going to cut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, [[scaring those old folks in order to get their votes, of course)
Then turn around and propose pimping health care insurance that requires cutting all of the above in order to pay for it! Hypocrites

I agree 100% Now the dems want to hurt children by taking away health care and increasing the cost and scaring seniors. The working middle class will be hurt the most when their taxes go up sky high and taxes on quality health plans are taxed to hell.

Obama 'Don't' Care.

[ccbatson]

Not correct Elganned...second handers are willing coconspirators...we are Atlas's who have yet to shrug.

[oladub]

The Senate health care bill is a work in progress and is subject to change. Then it has to be reconciled with the House version and passed in the middle of the night with an extra five hundred pages snuck in that no one has read and won't because of some arbitrary deadline.

Given all that, financial guy Peter Schiff has some unique observations of how the Senate version will bring down the insurance companies and US health care. He is not a friend of our present health care cabal or Obamac utopian theory. According to Schiff, insurance companies will be forced out of business with new requirements, the penalties for not having insurance are so low that many will only buy insurance when they do get sick, the public provider plan is inadaquately financed and intends to tax the private insurance companies that Schiff sees as going bankrupt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT-3RLd01qI first 3min40sec only.

[elganned]

Not correct Elganned...second handers are willing coconspirators...we are Atlas's who have yet to shrug.

Doesn't seem to keep you all from gorging at the Medicare trough.

[ccbatson]

Been through this one over and over. Once more for the Elganneds....

Medicare is a contract whereby 3 parties are embroiled...the patient, the payer, and the provider. If I disagree with the premise of the contract [[rightfully so), my recourse is to, via political means, attempt to effect a change in said contract via legislation. The changes must honor the obligations of the invested parties, but can phase out new enrollees in terms of their obligations [[taxes) and benefits [[care). Until that happens, the current contract is still in force.

[elganned]

I understand that the patient and Medicare have a contract, but where do you come into the picture? Can you not simply decline to see Medicare patients?

[ccbatson]

Provider is the designation for the Physician. Truth be told, there is one too many members of the relationship...guess which one is out of proper place

a. The patient seeking the service and paying for it.
b. The provider delivering the service and accepting payment once rendered.
c. The government stealing [[and putting the country into debt) the payment without consent and giving it by unilateral decision of terms to the provider.
d. An employer buying the cheapest coverage to save money.
e. A union taking and giving bribes to get bigger benefits.
f. The insurance company preferring to deal with an employer, or union as opposed to the patient.
e. c,d,e, and f.

take your time.