Can Greektown be saved?

[casscorridor]

Greektown is gone and the Casino killed it. At least the "Greek" version. Most of the Greek spots have closed. Just look at street view in 2009 versus now.

Yeah sure, the casino generate revenue for the city. But it shouldn't have been at the expense of one of the only thriving strips of independent restaurants in the downtown area, not to mention one with cultural heritage that in and of itself was a tourist attraction.

But there's the thing, Detroit's leaders have never much respect or concern for small business districts, preferring headline grabbing developments such as casinos and ball parks. It's the same culture that suffocates small businesses with overregulation, high taxes and long waits for permits while giving massive handouts to corporations.

It's much easier to point to new parking garages, sports stadiums or high rise hotels while glossing over the countless small businesses that have shut their doors in the proceeding decades after the casinos opened.

[Vitalis]

The mention of Trappers Alley triggered a memory about The Attic Theatre which - if I recall correctly - was on the top floor [[5th ?). The Attic featured a resident theatre company, and a woman named Lavinia [[sp) Moyer was the artistic director. I believe the company started productions at this location in 1975 -76? The company abandoned this location some years later, and ended it's run of stage productions in Pontiac at The Strand Theatre. Me thinks there was a fire at the Greektown location, which caused them to move on.

[jcole]

Or backroom card games at Grecian Gardens that my dad used to bust.

"It hasn't been "Greektown" in years."

No barbut games any more? [[Look it up.)

[401don]

Greektown area shootings seem to be increasing.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...officials-say/

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...ct-in-custody/

[DetBill]

Greektown area shootings seem to be increasing.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...officials-say/

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...ct-in-custody/

We walked through Greektown on Friday night from my residence on the way to the opera [[which was very good btw), quite frankly the crowd was just plain scary in Greektown , the yelling ,screaming ,pushing each other ,no regards for other pedestrians on the sidewalks, it was not a good scene , we commented on the way back we would walk back to Lafayette Park around Greektown to avoid it ,which we did. All the other areas were just fine. We had also mentioned earlier about the crimes and shooting that took place in that area last year, and sure enough the next morning we read about a shooting and killing in the exact area that we mentioned. It was just so predictable. Now, here the next night, there’s another killing of a security guard in Greektown over an argument with someone who just wouldn’t listen.This area is out of control once again, the element there is very dangerous at night, and somehow someway this needs to be rectified. Now as for the rest of the downtown area, on Friday night, it was extremely busy and thriving, lots going on felt extremely safe , it was what a downtown should be like,but not Greektown that’s for sure. Now once again this of course is not unique to Detroit, almost every major city anymore seems to have issues like this going on. The next problem is of course, if they ever did get that area under control where is this gang of people going to hop to next. The police have their hands full. Every citizen has the right to go out and enjoy themselves , have a nice time and feel safe. You can do that in the majority of downtown, but not in Greektown.

[Lowell]

I heard they slapped on a curfew for under 18-year-olds. Wasn't clear if it was for Greektown area or all downtown. For some reason Greektown is their preferred hang out area for young kids.

Too bad. I'd bet the almost all of the kids were just out to have fun but even one gunshot immediately makes them all suspect and ruins all the good kids' evenings.

One would think Bedrock would flood the area with security. These events are giving the area an unwanted reputation and that has to be impacting Gilbert's casino business.

[313WX]

I heard they slapped on a curfew for under 18-year-olds. Wasn't clear if it was for Greektown area or all downtown. For some reason Greektown is their preferred hang out area for young kids.

Too bad. I'd bet the almost all of the kids were just out to have fun but even one gunshot immediately makes them all suspect and ruins all the good kids' evenings.

One would think Bedrock would flood the area with security. These events are giving the area an unwanted reputation and that has to be impacting Gilbert's casino business.

Didn't Gilbert sell the casino?

[K-slice]

Didn't Gilbert sell the casino?

Yes, The casino is no longer a Gilbert entity.

The weekend crown downtown still hasn't recovered to it's pre-covid level of civility, but this weekend really showed that Greektown is the worst. I began to stroll down Monroe on Friday, but turned around. It's not worth it.

[401don]

Yes, The casino is no longer a Gilbert entity.

The weekend crown downtown still hasn't recovered to it's pre-covid level of civility, but this weekend really showed that Greektown is the worst. I began to stroll down Monroe on Friday, but turned around. It's not worth it.

As was discussed in this thread, we know casinos like to keep the customers inside and don't really care to help the restaurants on the street but this many problems is giving people a reason to avoid the casino completely, even if they can move from the garage directly to the casino. I know a lot of casual patrons like myself will often park in a lot and drop into the casino to play slots before or after a game but not sure I would feel comfortable any more and I've been going to Greektown for almost 50 years.

[southen]

I have lived a stone's throw from Greektown for 11 years now and if it is a Friday or Saturday I stay away entirely after 5pm. It isn't worth the potential trouble that people who want to get tanked and go to the club bring. Ill stick to my dives on the periphery of downtown.

[stasu1213]

Chicago had a rampage of young people destroying stores incident last night. Lots of violence occurred this past weekend. Greektown had been dangerous for more than 10 years

[ABetterDetroit]

Lots of young men+ lots of young women+ lots of alcohol there is always going to be some issues, fights, drama etc…that will require more security and policing. That is just the way it has been for quite a long time. What is different is the presence of abundant handguns. That is the major problem that has to be addressed. Many more cameras, more policing and more serious enforcement of all illegal gun crimes. Get the message out. Bring illegal guns downtown, you will get caught and will go to jail period. The reality is there is a very short list of viable solutions. Rolling the clock back to some point in time is not on that list.

[401don]

Lots of young men+ lots of young women+ lots of alcohol there is always going to be some issues, fights, drama etc…that will require more security and policing. That is just the way it has been for quite a long time. What is different is the presence of abundant handguns. That is the major problem that has to be addressed. Many more cameras, more policing and more serious enforcement of all illegal gun crimes. Get the message out. Bring illegal guns downtown, you will get caught and will go to jail period. The reality is there is a very short list of viable solutions. Rolling the clock back to some point in time is not on that list.

Deterrence doesn't seem to have any effect. People know if they shoot someone they will go to jail but that doesn't seem to matter. With curfew laws in effect, are police allowed to stop anyone after curfew who appears under 18 and ask for i.d.? They could then frisk them if they are violating curfew.
I think we've answered the question I posed in the title of this thread - Can Greektown be saved? The answer appears to be - no.

[Henry Whalley]

The answer appears to be - no.

It's only a matter of time before someone turns Old St. Mary's Church into a sports bar or strip club. :[

[ABetterDetroit]

Deterrence doesn't seem to have any effect. People know if they shoot someone they will go to jail but that doesn't seem to matter. With curfew laws in effect, are police allowed to stop anyone after curfew who appears under 18 and ask for i.d.? They could then frisk them if they are violating curfew.
I think we've answered the question I posed in the title of this thread - Can Greektown be saved? The answer appears to be - no.

Are they? I don’t have access to any data besides what I read in the local papers but it sure seems like there is quite a few Detroit homicides that when the perp is arrested and named they have prior illegal possession of a gun charges that did not result in jail time. The DPD keeps saying the exact same thing. It seems like a opportunity missed to take a homicidal person off the streets before the homicide is committed.

Again, many more cameras and plenty of publicity about their addition placing them wherever people congregate and also covering all roads and intersections anywhere nearby including the freeways.

[DetBill]

I am sure the owners of the soon to be completed Element condo / rental complex around the corner, are not pleased by any means, these places are expensive , and nobody in their right mind is going to purchase or rent one of these units at this site with this out of control nonsense going on. Also the top floor of Delmar outdoor nightclub used to be horrendous with the loud music coming from it , and that is just on the other side of the street down the road. That building could be in huge trouble unless things start to straighten out.

[Vitalis]

My, my, my - so many guns. So many cellphones. So many young people desperate to go viral. Look at what happened in that toddling town of Chicago this weekend. "Wilding" is a term I haven't heard in a while, but it was certainly in use the past few days during the teen takeover of the Magnificent Mile area of Chi-Town. How much longer will Covid-19 be an excuse for bad behavior by the "neglected generation." It promises to be a long hot summer in Downtown Detroit.

[Gistok]

Yes... Chicago makes Greektown seem tame...

'Teen Takeover' brings chaos in Chicago, hundreds of teenagers destroy property, attack tourists, 2 shot [[msn.com)

[Henry Whalley]

It promises to be a long hot summer in Downtown Detroit.

Hopefully, not like Chicago.

[Zacha341]

I don't think Detroit will be as bad. Chicago suffered with a horrid mayor [Lightfoot]. Totally given over to identity politics and ideology. On one she hand blatantly racially affirmed black people, yet allowed high crime [all the while denying such] to harm the same 'group' she SO claimed to exclusively champion! Per policy and inaction, the city suffered in the aggregate.

Also, Chicago had more vandalism in their high-end merchandising areas than we tend to. Of course as I say 'always expect the unexpected'. I have family there [black owning a small business] who just closed down shop, retired.

...How much longer will Covid-19 be an excuse for bad behavior by the "neglected generation." It promises to be a long hot summer in Downtown Detroit.

[Zacha341]

Making world news across the pond [UK]! Teens know they're minimally held accountable by the law. What we're seeing in the streets is often mirrored in the classroom. As so-called 'traditional' expectations, behaviors, civility give way to the self-appointed child, child-knows-best ideology/ narrative.

The big question remaining is where ARE the parents in all of this?

'Course parents are increasingly told they don't have a say... and soooo...

Hundreds of 'teens' cause fiery chaos in Downtown Chicago...

Yes... Chicago makes Greektown seem tame...

'Teen Takeover' brings chaos in Chicago, hundreds of teenagers destroy property, attack tourists, 2 shot [msn.com]

[401don]

The big question remaining is where ARE the parents in all of this?

You're kidding right? You mean are they in jail, busy looking to score or just in front of the tv finishing off the Jim Beam?

[Zacha341]

^ Or on their phone keepin' tally of their social media distractions!----

On the other hand, having work with teens and their parents, not a few have shared their struggle of keeping their kids on a strong ethical path, appreciating education, focused etc.

Against the strong tractor beam of what is going on all around them.

Children of parents who don't care, and don't even try are really bound.

[Zacha341]

Re. Greektown specifically, I've not been in some years now. Soon as the sidewalks became un-walkable due to throngs of path-blocking, rude, cursing teens, etc I was done. Not going thru a tunnel of risk [Monroe] to eat. Too many other options available - especially for Mediterranean fair in SE MI.

When I was a gambler, from the lot, it was easy to go over to the casino using the bridge. Security rarely let those pathways get too block or rowdy.

[401don]

Yes... Chicago makes Greektown seem tame...

'Teen Takeover' brings chaos in Chicago, hundreds of teenagers destroy property, attack tourists, 2 shot [[msn.com)

The couple of times I was in downtown Chicago I couldn't believe all the young people with arms full of shopping bags from the expensive stores on the Mile. I assume these are rich kids from the burbs coming into the city to shop on the weekends. While certainly not the cause, I'm sure there's a lot of understandable jealousy and "we're going to get our share" when the inner city kids are seeing this.