Burger King Franchisee to Close 26 Locations Across SE Michigan, 12 in Detroit Proper

[Richard]

Lol you know your argument is weak when you have to resort to the can’t come here card,what the hell would I want to go to Canada for,I see more Canadians down here then you see up there,gee I wonder why?

There are plenty of socialist dictatorships in tropical settings that are much more interesting and warmer.

You have to increase temporary foreign workers in order to fill the jobs that Canadians will not do,how many more do you need? Plenty at our southern border we can fly up to you.

You said who in Michigan wants to work those low wage jobs,then you say they are well taken care of in Canada but yet you have to import low skilled labor to fill them because Canadians do not even want to work them.

So would not $15,000 in tax free income be the same as $25,000 in taxed income ?

You are not looking at the bigger picture,they just repealed RTW you do not think the hospitality and restaurant workers union is going to just close up shop and go home.

There is a reason they are low wage jobs,if you expect them to make the same salary as you,then that would not make you very special.

Taking the stance of ,people should make X amount of money because that what they deserve to make and the fantasy of a living wage,which there is no definition,is not how capitalism works.

[Zacha341]

I was generalizing to some extent re. the 15 - 22 age group [very young people]. This is an age group I've worked with in job recruitment, work-based learning in career tech education areas. Areas where we constantly had to compel young people to understand that a strong work ethic is still yet desirable and a value sought by employers! This ethic is clearly waning.

For example, that McDonalds on Conner that recently closed had a hand-written sign viewable at the drive-thru window stating 'Stay off your phone while working'. I've had to redirect cashiers to focus on the task of ringing up my orders at some grocers instead of talking among themselves or slick-chatting on their phone where I can clearly see their earbuds.

More restauranteurs and retail jobs are complaining that can no longer find the high-school ager or early twenties+ to work effectively now.

Too often they call-off sick, default-present w/ surly attitudes - sneaking to use their ever-present phones. So often now you see older or middle-aged people working in food service, etc who sadly have to work at those wages due to this busted economy, etc. yet they tend to be more dependable.

I started off working minimal wage thru my late teens and twenties. I built my way with hard work and education, changing companies as I increased and adapted my skill set and career direction[s]. I was at least not so rude/ distracted that customers and supervisors could not further recommend me.

While I think your engaging in gross over-generalization......

I will ask a serious question in reply.

"Why would any worker, of any age work for anything close to Michigan minimum wage"?

If the offer is under $16USD an hour, the appropriate response is an obscene gesture.

I will never fail to be amazed that people think you can cut/restrain[[spending) to success.

It almost never works, when it does, its rarely sustainable.

You need people to want to work for you; to enjoy their jobs, to see a future with your company.

That requires good wages, benefits, training, and full-time and promotion opportunities...

[313WX]

I will reshare my post from the thread about the McDonald's on Mack & Conner, as it is still relevant.

It is for the same reasons, BTW, that YUM! Brands [[KFC, Taco Bell and Pizza Hut) has shutterrd most of their outlets in Detroit proper, as well as why both Del Taco & Chick-Fil-A [[up until this point) have avoided opening Detroit proper locations.

If the locations were so profitable and easy to run, either another franchisee or corporate would have taken them over instead of letting them close altogether:

Blaming employees for the closure of this McDonald's and other places in the city of Detroit is a ridiculous cop out, and I'll explain why I won't let it stand.

Let's start off with the fact that doing business in Detroit is already quite expensive. Aside from permitting/licensing taking forever at city hall, the sky high property taxes and the sky high insurance owners/companies must endure, there's also the high rate of theft by customers from nearby neighborhoods that adds more expenses to their inventory/security costs.

With that being said, what most of these skeevy business owners/companies do in light of the exceptional cost of doing business in Detroit proper [[to remain profitable) is screw over their employees by skimping on their labor costs. They will refuse to pay market rate to attract/keep talent [[only offering minimim wage), they will offer very few [[if any) hours to their staff to avoid paying benefits, and they will intentionally keep their stores grossly understaffed.

Now, on top of all that, we all know the average clientale in Detroit proper can be very difficult to work with. The city has a disproportionate amount of impoverished people who have a lot of unresolved mental issues [[which they can't get much help for BTW, thanks to former Governor John Engler). They will walk around with a chip on a shoulder and a hair-triggered temper at the smallest slights. And this is in a city where law enforcement often won't respond to calls about disorderly conduct by customers in a timely manner as their resources are already stretched quite thin [[forcing the employees to have to defend themselves). Unfortunately, this is a cultural/systemic problem that can't/won't be resolved overnight or by any one person/company. And I don't blame employees who are already being screwed over by their employers for not wanting to put up with it.

If anything, what COVID his proven [[which someone implied earlier) is that a lot of businesses simply have models that can no longer operate sustainably in the city of Detroit, at least not without wholesale cultural and/or operational changes.

[Zacha341]

^ Very well stated [restated] 313. It's a multifaceted issue. Having assisted young people in resume writing - recalling those who've worked at restaurants - indeed alot goes into running [and sustaining] a restaurant [inventory, sanitation, security] beyond food production/ serving.

I/ we cook and don't eat fast food often, but knew something was going south as Detroit has fewer Coney Islands now compared to ten years ago.

Ever-hearty, Coney Islands such as Legends, Nicky D's, Grandy's, Georges etc. have been the canary in the coal mine as it were.

Some open 24 hours, dine-in, wide option menus, some sponsoring community events, providing long term-employment, etc. When they cannot make it and close [and the building stays unoccupied] you know it's tight as Detroit witnesses this fast-food exodus.

[Canadian Visitor]

I will reshare my post from the thread about the McDonald's on Mack & Conner, as it is still relevant.

It is for the same reasons, BTW, that YUM! Brands [[KFC, Taco Bell and Pizza Hut) has shutterrd most of their outlets in Detroit proper, as well as why both Del Taco & Chick-Fil-A [[up until this point) have avoided opening Detroit proper locations.

If the locations were so profitable and easy to run, either another franchisee or corporate would have taken them over instead of letting them close altogether:

I want to concur w/Zacha and applaud this post.

Its really nice to be able to have an adult conversation and exchange of views and information.

We needn't agree on everything [[indeed that would make the forum rather dull), but we should be able to bring new evidence and ideas for others to consider; and you've done that here. Excellent.

****

I would add, the rate of teens be available to work is in decline, as it should be, as HS graduation rates rise, and post-secondary attainment rates rise.

I'm not sure about the details of these as they pertain to Detroit in particular, but both of those are phenomena throughout the U.S. and Canada writ large.

As teens and early 20-somethings study more [[which is a form of work); they are available less to entry-level employers.

That should create natural pressure to grow wages, which should, in turn result in productivity investments [[like self-order kiosks).

When these things break down, for a variety of reasons, ranging from local governance issues, bad management/greed, things go sideways.

[Richard]

I will reshare my post from the thread about the McDonald's on Mack & Conner, as it is still relevant.

It is for the same reasons, BTW, that YUM! Brands [[KFC, Taco Bell and Pizza Hut) has shutterrd most of their outlets in Detroit proper, as well as why both Del Taco & Chick-Fil-A [[up until this point) have avoided opening Detroit proper locations.

If the locations were so profitable and easy to run, either another franchisee or corporate would have taken them over instead of letting them close altogether:

Here they have adapted,you walk in and order from the kiosk they have for the most part,1 cook or microwave person,1 person at the drive up and one person filling the bags where they used to have 3 people taking orders.

The issue with franchises is if they say you have to run a 99 c special you have to do it,with the increase in food costs you can only lose so much money.

That’s the problem with franchise,you do not get to adjust prices accordingly,if food costs are higher in Detroit verses Atlanta the guy in Detroit still has to sell the product at the same price as the guy in Atlanta,where the mom n pop can simply raise prices accordingly.

I went into Steak N shake the other day ,kiosk only and there was one cook and a girl at the counter,her only job was to hand you the bag when your order was ready.

80% of the rest of the time,she just stood there with nothing else to do.

It was $17 for a hamburger the size of a White Castle,a small shake,and 6 onion rings,3 were smaller then a quarter and it was nasty.

They are already testing robotics in fast food,Starbucks in Europe has completely robotic stores.

There are a couple of restaurants here that have switched to robotic servers,you scan the menu at the table with your phone,place your order and it is delivered by a robotic server,no actual human intervention.

But they do not take cash everything is digital.

5 - 10 years from now or even less ,there will be no discussion about low paid service workers or even warehouse workers at Amazon because it is all switching to robotics,think of the impact on the workforce with that one.

I have been to gas stations at night,no attendants or workers,pull up to the pump pay with card - gas and go.

With technology you really do not need workers anymore.

The feds already know this,that is why you can go on full benefits and make up to 40k a year without having to work in the first place,with free healthcare.

[Zacha341]

Dangy - as a Detroiter this talk is making me want a Whopper with cheese!

Recalling how good they used to be. Yummy!

Here's a blast from the past re. Burger King: the Grady Keys [America's first black franchise owner - All Pro Fried Chicken etc] BK success story!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CpFlywJOUrk/

Timelines and growth of Keysgroup:

https://keysgroup.com/keys-group-milestones/

At the height Key's owned 10 or so BK's in the D. The one I grew up by was on Grand River near Linwood, not far from the Barn [Olympia Stadium]. People cooked more then so going to BK or a Coney Island was a treat. We looked forward to our big 'Whopper' or Whopper jr. and the paper BK Crown you could wear. Crazy right!? But we were kids/ teens.

[Zacha341]

Goodness! I refuse. I've heard that Steak Shake or whatever they're called is one of the least value joints out there.

Onion rings smaller than a quarter?

See that's why if I want some fast-food crap burgers and onion chips, etc. I still go to White Castles in the first place.

...It was $17 for a hamburger the size of a White Castle, a small shake, and 6 onion rings, 3 were smaller then a quarter and it was nasty.

[Richard]

Goodness! I refuse. I've heard that Steak Shake or whatever they're called is one of the least value joints out there.

Onion rings smaller than a quarter?

See that's why if I want some fast-food crap burgers and onion chips, etc. I still go to White Castles in the first place.

Steak n Shake used to be pretty good it seems like the last 6 months they have gone to crap.

White Castle’s are just starting to come here but there was Krystal burgers,kinda the same thing but definitely not,I remember when I was a northerner when drunk $1 got you 10 White Castles.

Speaking honestly there is a massive difference in locations and quality of food and service when it comes to fast food.

Where I am at,go into any fast food place and it is dirty and nasty and you have to ask for everything.

Nothing is placed out for your connivence but yet you go to one in the burbs or a “nice” area it is a world of difference,even with places like Red Lobster,it’s a world of difference.

I like BK and even though I can eat at pretty much any restaurant for free I still eat BK a couple of times a week,just have to pick and choose the locations.

I went in one last week,the employees were yelling and screaming at each other,like there was no customers in there,the customers that were in there did not bat an eye like it was normal.

Yea okay it was in the ghetto,but we have Caribbean restaurants in the ghetto and nobody ever acts like that and our meals are about the same price as BK but better quality so for me anyways I do not follow that they were in Detroit and low income and people act ghetto,because not everybody acts like that.

I think these closings had more to do with extended lockdowns,because the rent was still due,utilities etc.

Coming out of lockdown those stores had to have at least $500 - $600,000 in cash in order to restock,remploy etc and here all the restaurants that were closed over 1 year by choice,has to automatically go through the safety and health department inspections before re-opening.

The reality of it is the true state of our economy is being hidden in the media,when you see things like this it is only a glimpse of what is going on across the country.

It used to be a big thing of a company laid off 10,000 workers,it is happening all over the tech industry now on a weekly basis and with many other companies.

BK as a corporation draws a higher majority of their revenue from franchises then most of the other well know fast food places so I am guessing that their franchise fees are expensive.

They have been getting rid of corporate stores in favor of franchise,they sold the entire Mexican market as one franchise.

Franchise is good if you are the one selling them.

But even at that places like wal-mart and foot locker,Starbucks etc are all closing multiple locations across the country so it is following a trend.

[jcole]

That same Steak n Shake order at the one near Great Lakes Crossing would be 12.95

[Richard]

That same Steak n Shake order at the one near Great Lakes Crossing would be 12.95

cheaper up there ,that is what it cost for a whopper,large fries and large sweet tea here.

It is funny when it comes to food choices,we have a lot of different ethnic restaurants here,under $10 you can get a good meal.

our lunch special is your choice of jerk or baked chicken,rice and choice of vegetables and soda,or pop, for $6.99 and you can actually feed two people on that.

For us chicken is cheap,rice is cheap and the farmers market is blocks away so fresh veggies are cheap. We still make money on the volume.

What I really miss is Dennys $5.99 grand slam.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Good luck with that,WC is a private family owned business that is saddled with no debt and does not franchise,they do not open locations willy nilly and in a burger war they would win hands down because they have no debt and other locations across the country can pick up the losses,unlike a local franchise.

So why are they closing the WC at 9 Mile and Telegraph? I don't even know which area is the next closest to me.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

I don't think so. The price point of WC is still attractive for a fast-food-crap-burger! And SS doesn't have those wonderful chicken rings or onion chips!

The last time I went to WC, it's not so cheap anymore. They'll swallow a $20 faster than a eye blink now.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

While I think your engaging in gross over-generalization......

I will ask a serious question in reply.

"Why would any worker, of any age work for anything close to Michigan minimum wage"?

If the offer is under $16USD an hour, the appropriate response is an obscene gesture.

I will never fail to be amazed that people think you can cut/restrain[[spending) to success.

It almost never works, when it does, its rarely sustainable.

You need people to want to work for you; to enjoy their jobs, to see a future with your company.

That requires good wages, benefits, training, and full-time and promotion opportunities.

If you wont' offer those, people will not choose to work for you; generally not even when desperately poor.

After all, if you can barely make rent, need a food bank / food pantry in order to eat, can't afford to insure your car, and are behind on your taxes while working 30 hours a week; why not be exactly the same and sit on your duff?

To be clear, I've never been on gov't assistance and hope I never have cause to be; I've done decent in life; but I also realize my good fortune in that; a bit of hard work, a few connections, an excellent education, a family that helped w/tuition and learning etc.

For people who either haven't had that; or for that matter, people who have, a job that pays miserly and offers no material opportunity for advancement is pretty easy to take a pass on.

All very valid points....

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Dangy - as a Detroiter this talk is making me want a Whopper with cheese!

Recalling how good they used to be. Yummy!

Here's a blast from the past re. Burger King: the Grady Keys [America's first black franchise owner - All Pro Fried Chicken etc] BK success story!

https://www.instagram.com/p/CpFlywJOUrk/

Timelines and growth of Keysgroup:

https://keysgroup.com/keys-group-milestones/

At the height Key's owned 10 or so BK's in the D. The one I grew up by was on Grand River near Linwood, not far from the Barn [Olympia Stadium]. People cooked more then so going to BK or a Coney Island was a treat. We looked forward to our big 'Whopper' or Whopper jr. and the paper BK Crown you could wear. Crazy right!? But we were kids/ teens.

Funny there was no mention of the late LaVan Hawkins who owned numerous BK franchises in the Detroit area. Did he sell them before he passed away?

[Richard]

So why are they closing the WC at 9 Mile and Telegraph? I don't even know which area is the next closest to me.

I do not know why,it’s not the one where the place was shot up killing 3 inside,but they are showing 10 locations in Detroit,started in 1929.

But that is no different then the others that open and close locations for various reasons.

[Zacha341]

Yep. I noticed CK. I'm old enough to recall when burgers there where 55 cent or so plain, no cheese -- a bit more with cheese. All food is out of FRIGGEN control. Yet where told all is well [from the admin elite who are of course not impacted now matter how high prices get]. Rubbish!

The last time I went to WC, it's not so cheap anymore. They'll swallow a $20 faster than a eye blink now.

[Zacha341]

Lavan had a few BK's but he was more the Pizza Hut person:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...an/3422289002/

https://michiganchronicle.com/2019/0...s-passes-away/

Funny there was no mention of the late LaVan Hawkins who owned numerous BK franchises in the Detroit area. Did he sell them before he passed away?

[Zacha341]

Could have been.

As a rule I DO NOT go into fast-food places. I use their drive thru. WC was notorious back in day for having rowdy crowds hanging about at times - including their parking lots. Less so now.

There was a huge dine-in old-style WC at Warren and Livernois in the 70's and 80's with the metal counters and stools known as 'Pimps Kitchen'. It was razed and replaced with on of those tiny drive thru WC's then that too was torn down a few years back.

I do not know why,it’s not the one where the place was shot up killing 3 inside,but they are showing 10 locations in Detroit,started in 1929.

But that is no different then the others that open and close locations for various reasons.

[Richard]

The first White Castle open in 1929 at 12328 E. Jefferson.

Maybe not Detroit related,yet ,but McDonalds locked the doors on their corporate offices as they set the stage to go into bankruptcy.

It might be wise to save your cash,and not in plastic form,it’s going to be an interesting summer.

[Ray1936]

My first stop whenever back in metro Detroit.

[Jimaz]

My first stop whenever back in metro Detroit.

Heh. With 5 little sentries proudly standing watch against the onslaught of digital media.

We salute you little guys! You gave your best.

[softailrider]

So why are they closing the WC at 9 Mile and Telegraph? I don't even know which area is the next closest to me.

That better not be true, it's close to my office, I eat there occasionally.

[jcole]

According to every news report I've heard, it's not about bankruptcy. They are laying off a lot of the white collar people and shut the doors of corporate so they can notify the ones being laid off while they are at home so they don't have to deal with the issues that might occur in the office.

The first White Castle open in 1929 at 12328 E. Jefferson.

Maybe not Detroit related,yet ,but McDonalds locked the doors on their corporate offices as they set the stage to go into bankruptcy.

It might be wise to save your cash,and not in plastic form,it’s going to be an interesting summer.

[313WX]

According to every news report I've heard, it's not about bankruptcy. They are laying off a lot of the white collar people and shut the doors of corporate so they can notify the ones being laid off while they are at home so they don't have to deal with the issues that might occur in the office.

You're mostly correct.

And while the bankruptcy comment was a huge leap, there are obviously some underlying financial issues with the company if they're resorting to mass layoffs to shore up their balance sheet.