Ford's Train Station

[Gistok]

Ignoring arm-chair building construction managers... I bet they will will have the ceremony to open the historic structure around the 110th anniversary of the opening of MCS, which was Dec. 26, 1913.

Here is a 3 week old announcement about a new partner in the MCS project... I highly doubt they would have posted this if the project were in jeopardy. The Detroit Book Depository part of the complex is slated to open in spring 2023, and the MCS itself will be at the end of the year, probably on the 110th anniversary, which is my guess...

https://michigancentral.com/michigan...MHN_rX-jKb1uk4

[Richard]

Ignoring the construction time frame guessers ,one has to go by what Ford said

That final phase is currently in progress, with work expected to be finished in late 2022 or early 2023.

https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/fin...-detroit-depot

Book depository.

Tenants will begin to occupy the building by the end of the year. 2022

https://michigancentral.com/development/

In addition, space in The Factory will serve as the temporary facility for the first classes of Google’s Code Next program at Michigan Central – Google’s first in the Midwest – which begins Fall 2022.

Did it begin?


Soon, The Station will be an iconic, mixed-use hub for Michigan Central, Detroit, and the world. The grand waiting room, arcade and concourse will be welcoming public spaces for all to enjoy while the tower will be transformed into modern offices. Features include community and event spaces, public art, ongoing programming, activations, restaurants and retailers.
It will begin to open mid-2023 with initial occupancy and activation as part of a phased approach.


Work on the 500,000-square-foot [[46,000-square-meter) building is still expected to be completed by the end of 2022.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...ntral-station/

Ford plans to open newly renovated MTS in 2023

https://corporate.ford.com/operations/locations/michigan-central.html

amazing what one can discover in the comfort of an arm chair,or in my case an 1865 sofa.

[401don]

Not sure what the point of referencing nearly two year old articles is. We know they are behind. The time frame guessing is to estimate how far.

[Richard]

^ well it was from the horses mouth,if they said it two years ago,they are the ones with pencil to paper and know.

Ford has been doing this stuff for over 100 years all over the globe,it’s not their first rodeo.

They actually bought it in 2018 - my math sucks but I do have 4 fingers and a thumb on one hand which equals 5 - which just so happens to match the amount of years they have owned it.

Well actually 4 years - 2 months and 6 days - now to be more specific one needs to deduct non working days.

A multi billion dollar company that has been around construction and time frames internationally for over 100 years takes 5 years to complete a weee little train station?

At that time they were putting out over 6 million cars per year,in comparison MTS is like re-habbing a factory bathroom.

Ford is the one that is putting out mixed vibes on everything,stands to reason as MTS is a part of everything people will question it.

We completely restored ground up a 19 story historical hotel that was trashed for decades,including importing craftsmen from Greece to recreate the castings and marble work,that included reconstructing all of the historical elements,even the windows by hand or recasting the iron works because you cannot buy them anymore.

In under 2 years.

Thats why I am still finding it hard to understand why developments move at a snails pace in Detroit.

I know about construction deadlines and timeframes,been doing it over 30 years,when I am not in my armchair.

[DetroitSoldier]

Mayor Duggan's State of the City address will be broadcast from the former train station tomorrow. I highly doubt Ford would allow this if things had stalled.

[Gistok]

Richard... I made sure to find articles from the last 4 months to understand what is going on NOW with Ford [which after all was the OP's question]. And yet you are basing your counter arguments on 2-3 year old articles to try to debunk Ford's timeline.

I doubt all of Florida has anything as massive AND historic as the MCS. Which is certainly beyond your building expertise... armchair or not...

[Richard]

Richard... I made sure to find articles from the last 4 months to understand what is going on NOW with Ford [which after all was the OP's question]. And yet you are basing your counter arguments on 2-3 year old articles to try to debunk Ford's timeline.

I doubt all of Florida has anything as massive AND historic as the MCS. Which is certainly beyond your building expertise... armchair or not...

Really ? MTS was built in 1910

Buildings in St Augustine from 1565
Breakers in West Palm 1896
Flagler college 1888
University of Tampa 1891
Cigar factories and houses in Tampa 1886
Most gothic churches in Florida were built between 1870 and 1900.

You have to remember Detroit did not really kick off until the auto manufacturers set up shop in the early 1900s long after the wealthy built in Florida as their play ground,and the difference is with thousands of pre 1900s buildings,they are not stripped,gutted,burned,graffitied,demolished into parking lots,they are all restored or in use.

MTS is a walk in the park,it’s not like it is being chopped up into apartments,it’s all big open spaces,not that difficult.

I am not counter arguing anything,you are.

I posted timelines put out by Ford,not by Gistok,they are the ones involved in the project,so they should know,correct?

Its not even logical to say somebody is trying to debunk a timeline,when the timeline is put out by project owners.

That’s why projects take so long up there,to many excuses,and like here justification.

You do understand the basics of finance ? They are not working with a conventional loan,a construction loan has an extremely high interest rate and every day it cost X amount of dollars,time is money and years of build out combined with increased interest rates,potentially millions of dollars.

You can borrow some money and loan it out for a little MTS project,if it takes 5 years of you paying a monthly interest,what have you got to lose?

Other then 3 years of interest payments that you would have never had to pay,everyday it sits there it cost money.

You do not know what my building expertise is,it’s a lot more then sticking a few Lego blocks together and calling yourself an expert excuse maker for why things cannot get done in a timeframe.

[drjeff]

I can't figure out why people who spend no time in Detroit are constantly complaining about Detroit construction projects and rely only on online videos to get their information. I drive by MCS every weekday and I can assure you that construction is happening, people are onsite, etc. Maybe try getting a life?

[Jimaz]

I can't figure out why people who spend no time in Detroit are constantly complaining about Detroit construction projects and rely only on online videos to get their information....

There is no cost to automating shills — "influencers" in today's parlance.

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

— Arthur Conan Doyle

[Gistok]

Sorry Richard... tltr...

Let me make it short and concise... St. Augustine dates to 1565... oldest town in what later became the USA.. that's nice.

Population of Florida in 1920... 968,470
Population of Detroit in 1920... 993,678

Like I said... there was no single historic building as massive in Florida that compared to the MCS in Detroit... which required specialized restoration work making completion dates iffy at best.

[EGrant]

I can't figure out why people who spend no time in Detroit are constantly complaining about Detroit construction projects and rely only on online videos to get their information.

They are just trying to get a reaction from this forum [[and the Detroit reddit), and not actually contribute anything of value.

[Richard]

I can't figure out why people who spend no time in Detroit are constantly complaining about Detroit construction projects and rely only on online videos to get their information. I drive by MCS every weekday and I can assure you that construction is happening, people are onsite, etc. Maybe try getting a life?

You are the one complaining about others,while telling others to get a life,who posted online videos ?

I posted links from Ford corporate and the MTS web site,it does not matter if you live there or not,it’s their project.

Interesting how when there is a discussion,people go out of their way and create things in their mind to justify discourse.

[Richard]

Sorry Richard... tltr...

Let me make it short and concise... St. Augustine dates to 1565... oldest town in what later became the USA.. that's nice.

Population of Florida in 1920... 968,470
Population of Detroit in 1920... 993,678

Like I said... there was no single historic building as massive in Florida that compared to the MCS in Detroit... which required specialized restoration work making completion dates iffy at best.

It’s not a competition and if you live there and cared so much,the building would have never been in the shape it was in,and now you are bending over backwards in order to justify.

As long as you are looking for short and concise.

You live there,that makes you just as complacent in its destruction as the person that stole the historical tiles out of it to put in their house.

Its not about the past,it’s about moving forward in a timely manner for reasons that you clearly cannot comprehend and you are trying to pass your lack of understanding on to me personally.

Then to add fuel to the fire you are comparing a state that is gaining population from a state that is losing it,but you just keep doing you because thinking like that got you to where you are at and it was successful.

Like they say - Results count,everything else is BS.

There is a ray of hope though because nobody has blamed delays on COVID,thats progress.

You are ignoring the fact that the city taxpayers have a vested interest in these projects to the tune of millions in tax capture and corporate tax capture,they will not see that aspect for 20-30 years to filter back into the system to reduce their tax rates.

If they cannot enjoy the financial benefits right now they can at least enjoy the quality of life it brings,they are not going to wait around for 5-10 years waiting for that to happen,so they have a right to have expectations that things get completed in a timely manner.

Because during that process they are also deciding on weather or not to wait around for things to happen.

Forget about the financial aspect of it all,it’s the physiological aspect of it that is causing people to leave.

Even worse for the younger generation,you are asking them to give up years of their life in exchange for a future return.

Detroit is not unique in its re-building process,lots of cities have gone through it,and it took them 30-40 years to get to the point where people are comparing Detroit to them,they are not going to hang around that long,that is why it is essential to get these things online as fast as possible and through experience and because I do not live there I can see and experience how fast projects do get completed elsewhere.

It does not matter how big the building is or how big the project is everything in the process becomes in relation and relative to.

If Ford was really all that excited about it all they would be pumping up that excitement by keeping the public informed of progress,even if it is painting a wall,without that it creates doubts in peoples minds,then frustration then U-Hauls.

It should be an exciting time in Detroits history but yet you got people in the internet bitching about others posts and pulling the you do not live here card so how can you possibly know,like all of this is happening for the first time in history.

The Notre-Dame cathedral that everybody watched burn to the ground?

It’s open to the public,restored back to how it was built involving 100s of specialized craftsman from lost arts.

Not completely finished but a lot more complex then MTS and within the same time frame of rebuilding.

[softailrider]

I'm sure many of you have read that Ford is in financial hardship now. Mainly due to an 8 million recall 2022 and a leadership team that may not know just what to do next. I think Ford has stopped work on the Michigan Central Train Station. The old building has been closed up with any large opening covered with sheeting. No construction activity can be seen in or around the building.

I'm supposed to believe that Ford Motor Company is running out of money - I sincerely doubt that. I never claimed to be smart, but I'm not that dumb. I fully expect the train station will be finished.

Now if we're referring to the Fisher Body 21 renovation, that one ain't happening - supposed to be up and running by 2025, looks to me like they have plenty of work left.

[angry_fred]

Just announced yesterday at the state of the city that MCS will be occupied by Ford by July.

This is clearly a troll thread. Can the mods please lock it down?

[bigboat]

Just announced yesterday at the state of the city that MCS will be occupied by Ford by July.

This is clearly a troll thread. Can the mods please lock it down?

That would be great if it really happens. But, it will be something different from the autonomous group as Ford has discontinued development. Farley keeps saying Ford has too many engineers.

[Richard]

There is a pot with $100 billion just sitting there for hydrogen power incentives,but the majority are stuck on EVs like a bandaid.

Over the weekend 3 townhouses burnt to the ground and a 4th was made unlivable,because of a battery fire.

Charging Lithium-ion batteries in the house or garage is deadly and causing lots of fires.

Unless they can get to the root of all of the battery fires,it’s wasting billions.

People need to stop charging Lithium-ion batteries in their house or garage unless they are watching it,even flashlights and power tool batteries.

[EGrant]

This thread is deranged lol

[Richard]

This thread is deranged lol

Life must be rough for as many people that get traumatized by posts on the internet,it could be worse,you could have bombs raining down on you,or forced to relocate your family because of a war like millions had to.

When you put it in perspective,all people have to worry about in this country is reading something that nobody is forcing them to read in the first place.

I understand though,it is winter,people are cooped up in the house with nothing else to do but look for the pettiest of things to latch on to.

It is a discussion forum where all aspects of a particular subject are discussed,the forum does not operate under CCP rules,as much as some would like it to.

[EGrant]

My apologies, I interrupted your screed about lithium ion flashlight batteries in a thread about a train station. Please go on.

[Richard]

My apologies, I interrupted your screed about lithium ion flashlight batteries in a thread about a train station. Please go on.

Thank you for your permission to go on.

You are correct,my apologies,there is no way in the world that a train station that is being rebuilt by an auto manufacturer for the explicit purpose of designing future technologies in the EV world could have any possible connection to the batteries that will power them.

They will be delivering EVs in the future with a little sticker that reads - Batteries sold separately.

Even more so the same exact same auto manufacturer that just tried to launch a new line of EV trucks that burned to the ground because of the batteries while doing a pre-delivery inspection that they had to shut down production,until they could figure it out.

Yep there is absolutely zero connection.

But I also understand that some may have a limited scope of the ability to comprehend context and would automatically be focused on one word and make that their basis of dispare,so please go on.

Because you apparently are not aware of the fact that EVs are powered by batteries and the most common one being Lithium-ion I can see how one could be confused how the two work hand in hand,the same Lithium-ion batteries that are also burning houses down.

Feel free to laugh,just keep in mind your phone,laptop,appliances anything that contains a battery that you can re-charge odds are it is a Lithium-ion battery that is subject to starting fire at any given moment.

It probably would not be very funny at that time.

In 2021 there was 54 fires,smoke or forced or crashed landings on aircraft directly related to Lithium-ion batteries catching on fire.

As of March 2023 64

Its a deadly problem that they have not figured out yet,you can build all the EVs you want,spend millions renovating a train station in order to develop new technologies for those EVs ,but in the here and now,you are building bricks without the batteries.

To make it easier for you,think of an EV battery as a gallon of gasoline,without that battery an EV goes nowhere,just as without that gallon of gasoline your gasoline powered car goes nowhere.

Better?

I think they relate that to - Tripping over yourself while in your haste to mock others.

Seems to be quite the fad,or even a competition amongst some,but it is winter up there.

Welcome to the age of technology where everything is connected including the batteries that power them,one could call it a daisy chain effect,lose one link and everything related becomes effected .

[jcole]

That would be great if it really happens. But, it will be something different from the autonomous group as Ford has discontinued development. Farley keeps saying Ford has too many engineers.

Too many engineers that are not engineers for autonomous cars and batteries

[Richard]

They are engineers with years of experience,how would you find an EV engineer with 20 years of experience?

It reflected on the service end already,not very much trained personnel,the goal is 2035,it does not really give much time for technicians at the dealerships much training under their belt.

In over 100 years the dealerships have struggled to maintain some kind of reliability when it comes to warranty work.Now they have to figure out a whole brand new platform.

[jcole]

They want engineers for development of new technology; the generation of engineers that hold the higher echelon of jobs don't have those skills. That is why they are catering to the people who are most recently out of school where they were taught those technologies. You are looking at a generation of people who are mostly under 40 who have studied robotics and such. You aren't going to dind and EV engineer with 20 yrs of experience nor should you expect to. And since when do dealerships employ engineers? It's been mostly people that can read a computer screen diagnosing cars for years now.

They are engineers with years of experience,how would you find an EV engineer with 20 years of experience?

It reflected on the service end already,not very much trained personnel,the goal is 2035,it does not really give much time for technicians at the dealerships much training under their belt.

In over 100 years the dealerships have struggled to maintain some kind of reliability when it comes to warranty work.Now they have to figure out a whole brand new platform.

[Richard]

99.9 % of the time my truck is spent in the dealership under warranty work is for electronics.

Back in the day in my mechanic years,I did good because I was into electronics and electrical fault diagnostics,that most shops struggled with.

With the advent of EVs,nobody will be bringing their vehicles in for water pump changes.

The demand is not going to be for mechanical parts changers,it’s going to be for technicians that will have to an engineering degree,simply because of the rapid advancement of the technology,and as evidenced by Fords inability to launch an EV truck without it self combusting,if the manufacturer cannot figure it out,who is the consumer going to bring their vehicle in for issues?

That the issue with my Non EV truck,the dealership nor the manufacturer could figure out what the electronics issue is.

So it’s going to take a higher level of skills at the dealership level,not in the mechanical aspect but in the electronics side of things,because they are the ones that will have to figure it out without manufacturer support.

Thats the problem,and even with MTS,they are spending billions in order to advance technology so fast that they are not able to deal with the technology they already have.

It’s all fun and games until it does not work so what is the consumer option?

Buy it and use it until it breaks,then dump it and buy another,works for cheap Chinese crap not when you are spending $80k for a vehicle.

If the current goal is to spend billions in order to reach a goal of 50% EV production by 2030 and they have no trained technicians in the field to even fix them,that’s a disaster waiting to happen.

They cannot possibly train somebody right now,the technology advances to fast,the technology with EVs today is going to be totally different in 2030.

The people fixing them will become obsolete just as fast as technology becomes.

If you are not a software/mechanical engineer you will not be working at the dealership of the future.

They can do what they are trying to do with the implementation of AÍ ,where the vehicle fixes itself while driving,but they still have to depend on the little bits and pieces that AÍ depends on to be able to think,they get a bad diode that shows up 6 months down the road and AÍ decides it has a hankering for brick walls,who is going to be there to fix them all?