State Police installing license plate readers along metro Detroit freeways

[Rocket]

I say bring on the cameras. The social contract of driving has been broken. I'm really tired of going the speed limit and being used as a pylon in somebody's personal stock race on the freeway. JMO

Well, the vast majority of "posted" speed limits in Michigan are illegally low.

If you are driving 55 on the Lodge for instance, you really should be cited for obstructing traffic.

The state constitution states that the speed limits are to be based on the 85th percentile, based on the speed-study portion of a traffic engineering study, done during free-flowing traffic, and rounded to the nearest 5 mph. ALSO, they are to measure the speed st the FASTEST portion of that segment, and the posted speed MAY NOT be more than 2mph below that number.

In short, you measure the speed of all cars when traffic is light [Sun morning for example), then discard the fastest 7% and the slowest 7%, and the average of the rest. That's to be the speed limit. On the Lodge for instance, that might be 75 mph, on I-94 70? On 696 West of I-96 it might be 80 or 85 mph.

So if you are driving slower than those speeds, the problem is you, not other drivers. You should probably stay off the freeways, or be given tickets for obstructing traffic. And the guy from the police and the guy from the county that together decide the posted speeds should both be sent to jail for fraud.

[1953]

To search is:

"to try to find something by looking or otherwise seeking carefully and thoroughly."

If the police are trying to find something by collecting information en mass on mostly law abiding people, then its an unreasonable search, unless the merits of the search are outweighed by the risk, such as in a major terrorist situation.

[mwilbert]

To search is:

"to try to find something by looking or otherwise seeking carefully and thoroughly."

If the police are trying to find something by collecting information en mass on mostly law abiding people, then its an unreasonable search, unless the merits of the search are outweighed by the risk, such as in a major terrorist situation.

No, information gathering and searches are not the same thing, by your chosen definition. Just because you want to call it a search doesn't make it a search.

[Bong-Man]

Well, the vast majority of "posted" speed limits in Michigan are illegally low.

If you are driving 55 on the Lodge for instance, you really should be cited for obstructing traffic.

The state constitution states that the speed limits are to be based on the 85th percentile, based on the speed-study portion of a traffic engineering study, done during free-flowing traffic, and rounded to the nearest 5 mph. ALSO, they are to measure the speed st the FASTEST portion of that segment, and the posted speed MAY NOT be more than 2mph below that number.

In short, you measure the speed of all cars when traffic is light [Sun morning for example), then discard the fastest 7% and the slowest 7%, and the average of the rest. That's to be the speed limit. On the Lodge for instance, that might be 75 mph, on I-94 70? On 696 West of I-96 it might be 80 or 85 mph.

So if you are driving slower than those speeds, the problem is you, not other drivers. You should probably stay off the freeways, or be given tickets for obstructing traffic. And the guy from the police and the guy from the county that together decide the posted speeds should both be sent to jail for fraud.

Thanks for identifying yourself as part of the problem. Notice he makes no mention of the posted minimum legal speed on a 1950's designed freeway with out-dated entrance/exit ramps? 55mph means 80-85. 70mph means 90....now get out of my way or my F-350 will ride your ass. I've got places to go. Me, me, me. Bring on the cameras.

[Rocket]

Thanks for identifying yourself as part of the problem. Notice he makes no mention of the posted minimum legal speed on a 1950's designed freeway with out-dated entrance/exit ramps? 55mph means 80-85. 70mph means 90....now get out of my way or my F-350 will ride your ass. I've got places to go. Me, me, me. Bring on the cameras.

Well, more like everybody, everybody, taxpayers, economy.

If cars go 1/2 as fast, then they take 2x as long to get to their destination, hence there are 2x as many cars on a freeway at a given time, hence we'll need a lot more lanes. That means big bucks, eminent domain property seizures, and lots of construction and harm to the economy.

Entrance ramps may be somewhat outdated [I-94 more than 696, or I-75), but cars are also WAY more agile, have better brakes, and WAY better tires than the cars of the '50's and 60's on which the ramps were built around.. A modern mini-van can WAY out accelerate, stop and handle that LTD station wagon your parents drove.

So those freeways that were designed and built for 1950's and 60's cars to safely drive 70 mph should now be posted 75 mph, not 55.

[Richard]

No, information gathering and searches are not the same thing, by your chosen definition. Just because you want to call it a search doesn't make it a search.

Police are not supposed to be able to stop you while randomly walking down the street and ask you to identify yourself without being suspected of committing a crime.

Having plate readers on the freeway is akin to - show me your papers - without just cause to ask in the first place.

It automatically puts you into the system,the same system that has been proved to be able to be hacked and other countries that are not as nice as we are,are already compiling a profile in you,every step you take.

Its not the concept of collecting information,it’s what is done with that information or how it can be used against you in the future,you can say that you do not break the law and you have no issue with people compiling information on your every move because it will not effect you.

That is what millions said,up until they were loaded onto the box cars,nobody expects nothing bad to happen,but history tells us that it can and does happen all the time.

This country was founded on the principles of less government in an individual’s life,it seems like anymore people are looking and justifying more ways in order to have the government in every aspect of our life from cradle to grave.

There was actually a Michigan case where the 6th district court ruled in 2006.

Defendant loses when appeals court rules that Americans have no Fourth Amendment protection against computer checks--even extensive ones--of their license-plate numbers.

——————-

But in the other hand there have been arrests of law enforcement officials excessing information in those data bases for nefarious reasons,if they can do it so can others.

[casscorridor]

There's no such thing as a right to drive on public roads. That's a privilege and you maintain that privilege by following traffic laws. Break them too often, and you lose that privilege.

I'm willing to bet most of the outrage about cameras is less to do with "surveillance" [[CCTV surveillance of roads has been widespread for decades) as it does with drivers who know they break the law and hate the idea that they will have to follow it.

But traffic cameras could literally save hundreds of lives a year, according to at least one study:

https://www.lse.ac.uk/News/Latest-ne...g-to-new-study

[Henry Whalley]

police are not supposed to be able to stop you while randomly walking down the street and ask you to identify yourself without being suspected of committing a crime...

tldr

[Richard]

There's no such thing as a right to drive on public roads. That's a privilege and you maintain that privilege by following traffic laws. Break them too often, and you lose that privilege.

I'm willing to bet most of the outrage about cameras is less to do with "surveillance" [[CCTV surveillance of roads has been widespread for decades) as it does with drivers who know they break the law and hate the idea that they will have to follow it.

But traffic cameras could literally save hundreds of lives a year, according to at least one study:

https://www.lse.ac.uk/News/Latest-ne...g-to-new-study

Well we do live in a country that threw all the tea in the harbor when a government became to oppressive,so it is in our blood.

Our speed limit is 70 but most radar is set at 83,watch enough police videos and the only time people are pulled over for following to close on the freeway is when the officer has a hunch that they are trafficking.

So for the most part,it is not because you are breaking the law,they are using the law as a reason,the more laws on the books the more reason and likelihood one violates them.

I do not think there is anybody that can say they never ever broke a law,there are laws on the books from as far back as the 1800s that they can dust off if necessary that people are not aware of,like spitting on the sidewalk in some places.

Seems like 99.9 % of the drivers out there do not even know what a turn signal is,so they are breaking the law,so I do not think anybody can take the stance of,do not break the law and you will have nothing to worry about,odds are they are breaking the laws just like everybody else.

To make it worse they legalize weed and the stoners are on the freeway going 30 mph while thinking they are doing 90.

Traffic cameras do not save lives

Regression to the mean"


"regression to the mean" is the term given to an important statistical error which is constantly incorporated in documents claiming benefits for speed cameras.

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/rttm.html

They are installed under the pretext that they will save lives because you are having a problem spot and looking to solve it,but statistics show there is no long term decrease.

They are popular as revenue generating devices,like the highway plate readers,because all they do all day is sit there all day and night and catch bad guys without actually having to pay an officer to do it.

They may catch a few really bad guys,but at the cost of millions in investment,and they may catch a good guy that is just having a bad day and slipped up when they probably would have never did the dirty deed for the rest of their life.

Highways have been around for 100 years,ya think if they could possibly make them safer they would have thought about it instead of looking for ways of capitalizing on them even more.

[Henry Whalley]

[QUOTE=Richard;631561]Well we do live in a country that threw all the tea in the harbor when a government became to oppressive,so it is in our blood[QUOTE]
tldr