GM is Forcing All Workers to Return to Office By the End of Year

[Zacha341]

Yep, scams are why companies are pulling staff back on-site.

I hope she's banking those extra earnings for the not-so-good times. This kind of stuff comes to an end as people talk. And technology interfaces information at unexpected levels.

Depending on industry it's a small world!

Especially related to what is shared and divulged online.

If I was her employer I would fire her, not only is she working for the primary but she is also working for the secondary on the primaries dime.

It would probably be different if she was taking care of accounts strictly on a per account level in contract but she gets a base for the 40 hours then residuals from each account...

[13606Cedargrove]

I have a friend that has been doing WFH for over 10 years, she makes a good $250 k a year, but she also does WFH for another company that is the direct competition with the company she works for.


Can she even do that? Sounds like a conflict of interest to me.

Your friend should not do that if he or she has a employment contract with either company - or perhaps both companies - that prohibit this. I have had contracts where I was required to dedicate my professional efforts to my employer. Having private clients was not prohibited under case law, but I was prohibited from simultaneous employment by another firm.

[ddaydetroit]

As a business owner that deals with many different companies, I see things from the business side.


While some things work just as fine with remote workers like technical issues or software support the businesses I deal with where everyone back in the office are much easier to deal with. Since everyone went remote, I spent 10X the amount of time on hold on the phone. They also seem to be out of touch with how long it will take for a part to be delivered or what is in stock and if you must be transferred from somebody working from home to another person working at home plan on waiting a while
I order all the supplies for my shop and I am responsible for getting broken machinery up and running ASAP and there is no comparison to between dealing with a fully staffed office and one were everyone is still working remotely

[313WX]

Update:

Word is a new internal email was sent out to GM workers this morning.

It seems they're walking things back somewhat, as the 3 days in office wording is conspicuously missing from the latest email and it explicitly states the current "Work Appropiately" model won't change until Q1 2023.

That said, it still sets the expectation that a greater in-person presence will be required and it's up to people leaders [[or managers) to decide how this will be implemented.

[313WX]

Update:

Word is a new internal email was sent out to GM workers this morning.

It seems they're walking things back somewhat, as the 3 days in office wording is conspicuously missing from the latest email and it explicitly states the current "Work Appropiately" model won't change until Q1 2023.

That said, it still sets the expectation that a greater in-person presence will be required and it's up to people leaders [[or managers) to decide how this will be implemented.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/27/gm-d...-backlash.html

GM delays return-to-office mandate after employee backlash

[mikeg19]

I don't see why people would be losing their minds about this. Why? So now they can't mow their lawns at 1pm when they should be working?

3 days a week in office, IMO, is perfect. You get the regular in person interaction with team members and management plus.....YOU STILL GET TO WORK FROM HOME 2 DAYS A WEEK!

It also would be nice to see thousands of additional people back downtown 3 days a week buying coffees, lunches, accessories, etc.

[Richard]

I feel cheated now,all these years of being self employed when I could have went to work for a company and dictated my terms to them because they would have been so privileged to employ me.

What happens in the future when the tables are turned and the economy drops a little bit more,who is going to be the first to go that will have a hard time even finding a job.


What happens when internet goes down for many over 1 week?

[pocketchange]

Where this has gone wrong for GM [[and others) is I personally know situations where they have either allowed long time GM employees to move away from GM offices [[i.e out of state) or they have hired new employees who are not expected to be near GM offices based on their roles. Yet there are some who haven't moved in the same roles. So because you didn't move away you now need to come back to the office while the others in the same job are 100% WFH? Good luck with that something will give.

[313WX]

Where this has gone wrong for GM [[and others) is I personally know situations where they have either allowed long time GM employees to move away from GM offices [[i.e out of state) or they have hired new employees who are not expected to be near GM offices based on their roles. Yet there are some who haven't moved in the same roles. So because you didn't move away you now need to come back to the office while the others in the same job are 100% WFH? Good luck with that something will give.

The bolded is an issue for sure.

What's been happening is that folks technically considered hybrid haven't been going into the office at all, or maybe quarterly at most. GM hasn't made it clear whether these hybrid folks who were hired out of state or moved out of state must also start reporting to the office.

It would be real shitty to force the aforementioned hybrid folks out of state to move to Michigan just to come into the office, and that's where they will lose talent.

Officially, GM has only given exception from this RTO to folks who are formally classified as remote.

[Jimaz]

Has GM considered, um, shackles? ... he said facetiously.

[Richard]

Has GM considered, um, shackles? ... he said facetiously.

As others have brought up,there is a natural balance to things and it goes further then just a body in a cubicle in the bigger picture.

If I was GM I would say this is the job requirements,this is the starting pay,and this is the location of where you will be showing up for work every day,now what are you bringing to the table.

Secretary’s voice in the background,Hey boss it’s that engineer in India on line 3 ,should I tell him that the position is still available?

It’s probably why they delayed the dates,it has to go in front of the stockholders and unless GM can prove that WFH is a significant cost savings,they want a few 1/4 under their belt so they can have some numbers to bring to the table.

What about all of these cities that invested millions in local colleges in order to create a local talent base in order to attract businesses ?

Do not need to do it if the talent is sitting in Singapore with a computer.


How about the millions local taxpayers have spent in incentives based on amount of local jobs added to the workforce?

The tax credits for downtown properties that were based on expected foot traffic?

Those jobs are not local anymore,who refunds the taxpayers.

Ford was doing it with 30,000 employees worldwide,but they have also said they did not need that many as they switch to EVs.

30,000 is about the amount that they said they needed to shed from their labor force.

I guess firing somebody that has been remote working is pretty simple these days,flip em a text,no need to risk somebody in HR getting beat up.

There is a lot more to it then an individual WFH,there is a whole trickle down effect all across the board.

The most damaging thing that is happening with WFH,it’s the environmental impact.

From the pastures in Florida that are now sprawl infested cookie cutter housing,to the mountains across Tennessee and the upper Midwestern states where thousands have carved them up and built houses so they can have their perfect views.

So there you go,if you really want to save the planet,go back to work,it puts more of a demand on utilities and infrastructure with 30,000 people individually comfortably heating and cooling their residence while they are there all day then it does to heat and cool the office building.

A lot of people moved to Fla for the WFH,with their cash and demand,the average worker cannot afford rent or even buy their first house anymore,the couple that I have met,they are hopping on a plane 3 times a month for the required in person meetings,wonder how much extra CO that is contributing to the atmosphere?

My first thought when they started this WFH and people started moving across the country in order to take advantage of it was,save some cash,because all things come to pass and I am allready seeing a few people listing their homes for sale because they have to return to base.

People thought it was cool,buy a piece of property on the side of the mountain or out in some small town or out in the sticks,lose that WFH job and it all goes away really fast,there was a reason nobody or very few lived there before.

WFH - eat lunch at home,all day playing on the computer gives one enough time to order everything including groceries,makes them a hermit and de socialized,even worse with the upper management because they are not put spending that money directly into local businesses,only blue collar left,downtown becomes stagnant and back to catering to the lower incomes because that is all that is left - after 5 pm when they get off of work,very few milling about in the morning or afternoon.

By me they are not building 100 home subdivisions,they are building 650 to 900 home subdivisions,one right after another.

Its like an octopus,the WFH is the body,the tentacles are the ramifications of.

[K-slice]

Musk said it best, "they can pretend to work somewhere else". If the employees cares so little about their job that they aren't willing to do what humans have done daily for millennia then I guess there's the door.

Sure, you'll lose a few people, but it's essentially rooting out the unmotivated and disinterested anyway.

Good news for Detroit, and the world in general.

[hybridy]

Musk said it best, "they can pretend to work somewhere else". If the employees cares so little about their job that they aren't willing to do what humans have done daily for millennia then I guess there's the door.

Sure, you'll lose a few people, but it's essentially rooting out the unmotivated and disinterested anyway.

Good news for Detroit, and the world in general.

Ok Boomer

What say you to the thousand of companies who have posted records profits through the pandemic as their workers have gone remote and study after study showed productivity and worker happiness increased?

Lots of workers don't need to dress up, waste time on a commute, don't need to be micromanaged and make pointless small talk by the water cooler.

Those same workers appreciate the flexibility to structure their day and taskload/deadlines - forcing them to a rigid 9-5 in a sterile fluorescent cubicle prison does little to the bottom line. They don't require handholding and spoon feeding. They don't give AF about unlimited snacks, collaboration hubs, heads down glass boxes, hoteling furniture solutions, work cafes and other 'perks'.

Technology allows seamless connectivity and accessibility 24/7. What say you to those workers who say, "I only gain a commute?". What's the upshot here?

Just as we have always done, we continue to march into the future and those resisting change will be left behind as the world evolves around them. They will be dragged along kicking and screaming like the petulant neanderthals they are.

[Rocket]

Ok Boomer

What say you to the thousand of companies who have posted records profits through the pandemic as their workers have gone remote and study after study showed productivity and worker happiness increased?

Lots of workers don't need to dress up, waste time on a commute, don't need to be micromanaged and make pointless small talk by the water cooler.

Those same workers appreciate the flexibility to structure their day ....................etc

That all works in the short term, but there's a huge disaster waiting a few years down the road for companies that allow workers to forever work remote.

I have friends that are engineers and designers at GM and Ford, and many if not most of them learned their craft on the job from the older guys.

Yes, some of it can be learned at a school, but these companies often use specialized versions of the software, or even custom programs. And then there's tricks to doing a part in 1/4 of the time [I.E. the expected amount of time that every experienced Surface Data guy does it in normally].

That huge trove of experience, hard earned over decades will be lost forever if they're not able to pass it on to the new hires.


And regarding the title to this thread;
A Good friend has had to hire hundreds of people in the last few months for GM, and he tells me every employment contract clearly states that they will have to work at least part time on site. So NO ONE is being 'forced' to return to work. It's what 100% of them signed up for.

[DetBill]

Imagine, having to work at your office for your employer at their place of business….how dare they expect that,

[313WX]

And regarding the title to this thread; A Good friend has had to hire hundreds of people in the last few months for GM, and he tells me every employment contract clearly states that they will have to work at least part time on site. So NO ONE is being 'forced' to return to work. It's what 100% of them signed up for.

Your anecdote has little relevance.

Just because the relatively few employees you speak of in a company as massive as Gm supposedly agreed to work on-site part-time when hired the past few months doesn't mean most other salaried workers did.

[Richard]

Ok Boomer

What say you to the thousand of companies who have posted records profits through the pandemic as their workers have gone remote and study after study showed productivity and worker happiness increased?

Lots of workers don't need to dress up, waste time on a commute, don't need to be micromanaged and make pointless small talk by the water cooler.

Those same workers appreciate the flexibility to structure their day and taskload/deadlines - forcing them to a rigid 9-5 in a sterile fluorescent cubicle prison does little to the bottom line. They don't require handholding and spoon feeding. They don't give AF about unlimited snacks, collaboration hubs, heads down glass boxes, hoteling furniture solutions, work cafes and other 'perks'.

Technology allows seamless connectivity and accessibility 24/7. What say you to those workers who say, "I only gain a commute?". What's the upshot here?

Just as we have always done, we continue to march into the future and those resisting change will be left behind as the world evolves around them. They will be dragged along kicking and screaming like the petulant neanderthals they are.

The report explains how certain sectors such as technology, pharmaceuticals and consumer goods have benefited from the pandemic due to increased demand for services.
The five tech giants Google [[GOOG), Apple [[AAPL), Facebook [[FB), Amazon [[AMZN), and Microsoft [[MSFT) account for $46bn in excess profits during the pandemic, with Microsoft accounting for close to $19bn alone.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/the-32-fi...230100417.html

Companies that made billions in record profits during the pandemic were all related to the tech required for online shopping.

Online shopping happed to that extent because millions received free money in order to do that,those companies made billions because it transferred the wrath from the bottom to the top.

But that ride is over.

According to the International Labour Organisation [[ILO), 400 million jobs have already been lost globally and an estimated 430 million small enterprises are at risk.

Amazon is closing centers and other companies are laying off thousands.

The key word there is TECH and tech is one of the easiest things to offshore when it comes to WFH.

As people are realizing the current ride is not substainable.

Productivity has not increased,if it has where? There are shortages across the board in everything,if productivity had increased then it would be reflected in price reductions but all we are seeing is price increases.

It not a matter of boomers resisting change,it’s a matter of boomers have been there done that,unlike the wet behind the ears youngsters who think they are going to revolutionize the future in order to appease them as an individual.

WFH is no different then the current save the planet fad,you cannot change 100 years of supporting a way of life overnight and expect good results.

Some still do not get it,the only reason companies exist is to provide a return to the shareholders,they do not exist for the employees benefit,the employees exist as a benefit of the companies existence.

People are delusional if they think when given the choice of a company paying a worker in the states $150,000 a year when remote work provides them the opportunity to employ offshore at half the salary.

People can whine and cry about CEOs all they want,the CEOs answer to the shareholders,the business is there to provide a return in profit they are not a social services organization.

You guys got on this WFH kick and look for 1000 ways under the sun to justify it,you just have not looked that far ahead to see where it will end up at and who it will impact negatively,you youngsters have been blessed so far and have not had to go through a period of time when there are no jobs because the economy was rolling along.

Wait until you are standing in line with 100 others trying to get the same job,see how far your list of demands gets you.

That time will come,it always does and the way is is going now,the prices are not sub-stainable and the only way to correct them is with a crash,I guess the positive side of that is many will be able to stay at home,unfortunately the bills will keep coming in.

Technology does not allow things to seamlessly connect and if one is putting their lively hood on the line while depending on technology,all they have to do is read the internet is down sites that track outages across the country,the number one complaint is from people that WFH and have been weeks without internet.

How long is a company going to keep somebody in the payroll that is constantly having internet connection problems?

It’s not based on how things work while they do,it’s based on what happens when they do not.

[hybridy]

Richard, you’re factually incorrect and ignorant on your best day. By ‘youngsters’ you mean millennials. We graduated college during the worst recession on record only to be followed by a pandemic recession worse than that. Wages have been stagnant for years, we’re saddled with record student debt, cars cost $50k and real estate is simply unattainable, but somehow that’s millennials fault? Retired blue hairs don’t have a say in what’s happening with return to office. Go outside and yell at the birds.

The timing on this tho!
https://www.crainsdetroit.com/real-e...space-sublease

[Richard]

Personally if I was going to collage it would be to learn a skill where I could make a living and not be saddled with debt,while expecting everybody else to pay my way.

There have been 2 housing crashes which left plenty of opportunity for millennials to buy a house,but they want their forever home as a starter home,then blame everybody else when they cannot afford it.

Maybe if you took a lower salary cars would not cost so much?

You could have learned an actual skill without being in debt and had your house and been self employed if you spent 1/2 the time you spend blaming others.

As much as you hate blue hairs,they actually have more say then you do because as a majority they own the stock

All my kids are millennials,my daughter works at wal mart,owns her house,and drives a new car,my son never went to college,is married with two kids,owns his house,wife is a stay at home wife.

Neither one of them choose to go to collage.

When I was in my late 20s I was married with kids,no college but yet I owned my own house on one salary with no debt.

That how it works when people take responsibility for themselves and not spend their time blaming others and expect pay scales to be based on what they want according to the budget they set.

Factually incorrect and ignorant ? Sorry buddy you have a lot to learn about life.Maybe a late bloomer?

You have yet to see a real recession,what you called a recession has only been a down economy.

The unaffordable aspect has only been in effect for the past 1.5 years,how come you have not bought a house yet?

People wait until real estate prices go up then complain that they are priced out,but yet when housing goes on the down cycle they did not buy then,it’s people getting mad because they cannot have what they want when they want it.

If one buys the lie that they have to go to college and take on debt in life in order to be successful, then they have to be also willing to except the responsibility of their decisions and not go crying to everybody else for your bad decisions,and expecting them to pay for them.

For somebody to say,we deserve WFH is indicative of that mindset of,as long as I am personally happy,I do not care what happens to the community as a whole.

You are factually incorrect when you say you went through the worst recession in history,the great land bust of 1819 was the worst.

You know what happened then if you could not pay your bills including your student loans?

You went to debtors prison where you worked it off.

The pandemic recession was not a recession,it was a contraction,only lasted 2 months,the other worst recessions in history lasted well over 1 year.

The last long term recession was in 1980,it actually started in 1978 and that lasted well over 4 years.

In the summer of 1982, business bankruptcies and bank failures reached Depression-era levels. Auto dealers sent Volcker car keys urging him to “unlock the economy.” Farmers circled the Federal Reserve headquarters on their tractors. Unemployment peaked at 10.8 percent in late 1982. Costly unionized manufacturing workers found themselves displaced as hundreds of Northern factories closed and later relocated to non-union states in the South or overseas. And former union members faced a new reality. “We put three guys in a little machine shop making $9.18 an hour to start, which isn’t bad, and in three days they were talking union,” Nancy Nagle, head of a federal job program in Michigan, told the New York Times. “So, naturally, they were right back out on the street. We get people used to making the big bucks, working fairly close to home, with a union and good benefits, but things have changed now. It’s an employer’s market, and that discourages a lot of guys.”

https://www.historynet.com/hard-times-recessions/

History has a habit of repeating itself.

[hybridy]

What is collage?

[Rocket]

Your anecdote has little relevance.

Just because the relatively few employees you speak of in a company as massive as Gm supposedly agreed to work on-site part-time when hired the past few months doesn't mean most other salaried workers did.

Yes it does.

Every employee hired before the pandemic signed on to work on-site.

And all of the ones hired since the pandemic signed-on with it clearly stated in their contract that they would have to work AT-LEAST part time on site.

NO GM employee has been caught by surprise. In fact most were expecting this to have already happened.

[Richard]

What is collage?

Look at the bright side,you became saddled with debt so you could have the privilege of correcting spelling online,that comment probably cost you at least $5k plus interest whereas it cost me nothing

[313WX]

Yes it does.

No it doesn't.

In April 2021, Mary Barra announced that "Work Appropiately" would be the standard going forward and that people leaders could decide with their direct reports how often workers need to come in [[if at all). Most people leaders in response allowed their workers to WFH indefinitely. Since Mary's announcement in April 2021, GM has also hired thousands of new workers during this time who were promised by their people leaders that "Work Appropriately" would remain the standard.

Now, if you want to die on the hill of defending a company that lies to its current workers and pulls a bait & switch on new workers [[although I'm not sure what you're getting out of it), just say so. But don't come in here making stuff up based on hearsay evidence of little relevance.

[JBMcB]

Since Mary's announcement in April 2021, GM has also hired thousands of new workers during this time who were promised by their people leaders that "Work Appropriately" would remain the standard.

I know people who have hired people at GM. Every new hire knew they might have to go back to an office regularly. It depends entirely on the group.

My wife works for GM and spends all day in conferences with other companies. She doesn't have to go into the office to do that, and isn't being forced to do so. Her co-worker has to go to a factory every week.

My friend's wife has to go in to the office a few days a week to check on work being done in a lab. Those lab workers are there almost every day.

[Rocket]

No it doesn't.

In April 2021, Mary Barra announced that "Work Appropiately" would be the standard going forward and that people leaders could decide with their direct reports how often workers need to come in [[if at all). Most people leaders in response allowed their workers to WFH indefinitely. Since Mary's announcement in April 2021, GM has also hired thousands of new workers during this time who were promised by their people leaders that "Work Appropriately" would remain the standard.

Indefinitely is not a synonym for 'forever'.

Instead it means "not defined". [I.E. Gm doesn't YET know the date at which it will end.]

Essentially it means, "Until further notice".


And if you look in those people's contracts, you'll find that they clearly state that employees may be required to work on site part or full time.

And "Work appropriately" means whatever the group leader feels is appropriate. So 0 days a week, 3 days, 5 days. So right there, everyone is on notice that their group may well change at any time depending on what the leader feels is best given the company's needs and changing virus level.

There's no bait and switch that I can see.